[MOD] MagisterModmod

[MagisterCultuum]

It would be interesting that it needs a commitment before being able to get it (in term of civics or something), or at least forbidden for some civics...

The most fitting civic prereq (and perhaps the most fitting prereq overall) would be Liberty.

(The civics with which it would most conflict thematically are Social Order and Sacrifice the Weak, which are incompatible with Liberty as they fit in the same category.)

I do tend to think that is an under powered civic, so tying the wonder it it may have merit.

The Liberty civic requires Mercantilism though, which comes very late in the game. I'd probably want to make the wonder stronger if it comes that late.

Originally I was thinking of making the wonder also grant all Great Specialists (settled Great People, including those that come from Sidar Shades, but not ordinary assigned specialists) +1 , +1 and +1 , but decided that was way too powerful for a relatively early wonder and figured you wouldn't want to wait for the end of the game for your Creation mana.

What do you think? Can you wait that long for its bonuses?

 

[Calavente]

I dunno ... it's been a long time that I needed to have creation.

Either you put it as a bonus for the guy that rushed mercantilism and uses Liberty, but with full +1/1/1/1 for great specialists, and maybe a bit more
(for great specialists, I'm not sure it would be too much, even if early : you usually don't have that much great specialists, especially early on)


or you put it as a national wonder... that disappear once you go into Social Order / Sacrifice the Weak, and gets more bonus when in Liberty (eg the great scientist bonus).

Best way would be a national-limited unit (1), which has 0 mvt(or better leashed), autocast a support spell "Museum", which grants the Museum building in city, granting 1 creation mana ; and have it auto-able to cast, and auto-cast a Liberty Museum, granting +1+1+1+1 to GS, when in Liberty.
the unit dying when you enter Social Order, or Sacrifice the Weak.... (thus the building disapearing)
but you can rebuild the unit if ever you qui Social Order or Sacrifice the Weak.

(how about that ?)

or a mid-early wonder. But I think it would lose flavor

 

[MagisterCultuum]

That just seems way too complicated.

It would be much easier to have a per turn python effect in a city to remove the wonder under certain conditions that to rely on such a dummy unit.

Originally I was thinking of the wonder requiring multiple buildings in the city (a library, market, forge, carnival, theatre, and academy) to represent the diverse arts taught there, but thought that looked too cluttered. The Academy alone is probably good enough, especially since it depends on chance to get the right great person to construct one early in the game.

I'm thinking I'll just leave it at Education with an Academy prereq, make it grant 1 creation mana and +1 yields to great specialists, but also have a -10 gold per turn penalty. (Buying masterpieces to led kids destroy them can get expensive.)


I can't actually give a building a civic prereq without using python anyway. The AI could not be trained the understand such a python prereq, so it is probably best to avoid it. Maybe it would be best to just make Liberty give a happiness bonus for the wonder, and give the other civics a similar penalty. Mercantilsim itself is another civic that wouldn't suit the liberality of this Museum well.

Tying Liberty to Mercantilism always seemed strange. I'm thinking of changing the technology name to "Economics," and adding a second quote from a free market economist (probably borrowed from Adam Smith, Frederic Basiat, or Henry George, but perhaps under an Erebusian pseudonym) as a counterpoint to the sentiments expressed by Arian Kothrax in the current Mercantilism quote. (Or maybe it would be easier to just identify the High Councillor as one of the Stewards of Inequity, to make it clear that he understands economics but prefers protectionism in order to keep the rich rich and the poor poor?)

 

[Nothrazim]

I agree the wonder should not require Mercantilism/Liberty; while i think creation mana should be highly prized and sought after, that would put it just too far up the tech tree to be viable, especially for Tower of Divination / Mastery. What kind of effects can be added to the wonder through python if Liberty is enabled? The +1 , +1 and +1 sounds like a great lategame boost to the wonder, and a powerful incentative for Liberty. I find myself being heavily drawn by Scholarship far too often - or perhaps i just play mage-heavy civs too often - while Liberty in my opinion doesn't do enough to justify instead of Scholarship/StW/SO. Admittedly, i am not a hardline deity player (aside from when playing Auric, of course!), so my expertise is limited.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I just saw that Kael has posted another new piece of Lore to the FfH2 Reddit.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=14224828&postcount=5

I already adapted his description of the Crown of Akharien to that wonder's pedia, and am now thinking of adding another new late game wonder based on the follow up question's answer.

The Crucible would require both Strength of Will and Machinery, and would be the ultimate counter to enemies that pursue a Tower of Mastery victory or an otherwise magic focused strategy.

Its direct effect would simply be a bunch of free scientists and engineers, but far more importantly it would have a passive effect that runs in python each turn. It would start out by removing a random source of mana from the map. Even unique features would be effected eventually. Once all that mana is gone it would start counteracting the mana provided by wonders too. In the end it would even remove promotions from units leaving them unable to use the spells they used to know.

You could raze the city to stop the effects from progressing, but once the damage is done it would be irreversible.

I'd probably make all Arcane AI players and any AI pursing a tower victory declare war on whomever is constructing this wonder.

Although canonically it was the work of the Bannor, I imagine that the Khazad (who cannot train Mages or archmages anyway) would be the most likely to pursue this radical strategy.


I'm wondering if I should reduce the mana amounts required for free promotions back to base FfH2 levels in order to balance out the late game mana scarceness this could cause.

 

[black_imperator]

i have been wondering how to depict it properly and this would be a very nice way to put some challenge back into the end-game.
Only thing I'd suggest is for the effect to start slow before speeding up instead of the linear progression you seem to suggest.

 

[Calavente]

That just seems way too complicated.

It would be much easier to have a per turn python effect in a city to remove the wonder under certain conditions that to rely on such a dummy unit.

hahaha

you are surely right.
it's just that I'm a python-noob... so while I could, maybe, do what I proposed, I'm sure I wouldn't be able to do what you proposed...

further, I am not really knowledgeable on the effects that can be added / removed on buildings due to civics...

 

[TechPriest321]

I just saw that Kael has posted another new piece of Lore to the FfH2 Reddit.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=14224828&postcount=5

I already adapted his description of the Crown of Akharien to that wonder's pedia, and am now thinking of adding another new late game wonder based on the follow up question's answer.

The Crucible would require both Strength of Will and Machinery, and would be the ultimate counter to enemies that pursue a Tower of Mastery victory or an otherwise magic focused strategy.

Its direct effect would simply be a bunch of free scientists and engineers, but far more importantly it would have a passive effect that runs in python each turn. It would start out by removing a random source of mana from the map. Even unique features would be effected eventually. Once all that mana is gone it would start counteracting the mana provided by wonders too. In the end it would even remove promotions from units leaving them unable to use the spells they used to know.

You could raze the city to stop the effects from progressing, but once the damage is done it would be irreversible.

I'd probably make all Arcane AI players and any AI pursing a tower victory declare war on whomever is constructing this wonder.

Although canonically it was the work of the Bannor, I imagine that the Khazad (who cannot train Mages or archmages anyway) would be the most likely to pursue this radical strategy.


I'm wondering if I should reduce the mana amounts required for free promotions back to base FfH2 levels in order to balance out the late game mana scarceness this could cause.

That'd be amazing XD

 

[The Flame8]

Hey Magister, love the modmod, but when I try to run the installer it doesn't find my FFH 2 folder, which is in the correct place and named correctly. It may be the fact that I have it on steam. What should I do? Thanks ahead of time.

 

[zldrago1000]

The upcoming changes and additions sound awesome, looking forward to trying them out.

 

[Gomo]

Hello.
For some reason mod crashes after loading - music appears but no screen, and after few seconds game crashes without any notice.
I tried overwriting with zipped version - still the same.
I'm using civ with steam, but other FFH modmods are working.
Thanks for any advice in that matter.

 

[Akbarthegreat]

Hey I've got some more questions

• When a religion is founded, I've seen that it tends to spread quite rapidly in the first turn or two. You've added this?
• Just a minor gripe, could you prevent evil leaders from asking good leaders to DoW good leaders? Happens a lot, civ that completely hate me ask me to wardec my 'closest ally'.
• The AI doesn't seem to explore lairs (barrows) in its own territory.. just kill off the guardian and let the lair be
• Do skeletons turn into spectres when they win a battle or something?
• Was playing as the Luchuir on monarch.. took RoK and middle of the game I DoWed the Clan (Veil) because the Elohim requested. In a few turn the Sheaim and Balseraphs (both veil) DoWed me, followed by three other civs in some time. All these war decs were surprising since I was cautious with some of the leaders and none of them actually had any plans of invading me. The leader's declaration of war didnt popup for any of them. Does that mean all of them were bribed/ requested into war against me?
• Is mokka resurrected when he is killed once? Or is there any way a civ could ahve stolen his cauldron without killing him?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

The upcoming changes and additions sound awesome, looking forward to trying them out.

Thanks.

Hey Magister, love the modmod, but when I try to run the installer it doesn't find my FFH 2 folder, which is in the correct place and named correctly. It may be the fact that I have it on steam. What should I do? Thanks ahead of time.

I'd recommend using the contents of the zipped archive to install in manually. First make sure that FfH2 is installed correctly and running, then make a copy of FfH2 and rename it "MagisterModmod for FfH2" and then extract the contents of the archive and move them into that folder.

I don't use Steam so I'm not sure what problems it might cause.

Hello.
For some reason mod crashes after loading - music appears but no screen, and after few seconds game crashes without any notice.
I tried overwriting with zipped version - still the same.
I'm using civ with steam, but other FFH modmods are working.
Thanks for any advice in that matter.

I'm afraid I don't know much about Steam. Is there anyone who does who has it working who might be able to help?

Hey I've got some more questions

[*] When a religion is founded, I've seen that it tends to spread quite rapidly in the first turn or two. You've added this?

I've added the feature of granting a priest rather than a mere disciple when the religious tech is discovered if said player knows Priesthood already. Priests can spread the religion more reliably, although may be better used otherwise.

I did not exactly add another feature which causes a leader's "favorite religion" to spread to his capital city automatically when its founding tech is discovered, although I might as well have; Kael forgot to assign leaders favorite religions, so the feature did nothing when he first implemented it.

I did add the feature that lets the Malakim found The Empyrean early.

[*] Just a minor gripe, could you prevent evil leaders from asking good leaders to DoW good leaders? Happens a lot, civ that completely hate me ask me to wardec my 'closest ally'.

That is an issue for Tholal. I don't have much to do with coding the AI.

[*] The AI doesn't seem to explore lairs (barrows) in its own territory.. just kill off the guardian and let the lair be

I think Tholal wrote some code that control whether they think it is worth the risk of exploring a lair. Distance from their own cities maters, as he did not want them losing cities that way (but did want them risking their rivals' cities). I think they will explore sometimes when their territory is very well defended, they just are not that eager to do so.

[*] Do skeletons turn into spectres when they win a battle or something?

Not in general.

If a Skeleton controlled by the Barbarian State wins enough battles and gains enough xp to be level 4, then it may upgrade to a Specre through a special spell.

Similarly, Barbarian Spectres may upgrade to Wraiths at level 7.

[*] Was playing as the Luchuir on monarch.. took RoK and middle of the game I DoWed the Clan (Veil) because the Elohim requested. In a few turn the Sheaim and Balseraphs (both veil) DoWed me, followed by three other civs in some time. All these war decs were surprising since I was cautious with some of the leaders and none of them actually had any plans of invading me. The leader's declaration of war didnt popup for any of them. Does that mean all of them were bribed/ requested into war against me?

Maybe.

It could also mean that your enemy requested support from the Undercouncil, and got enough votes to force all members of that council into the war.

Of it could just be regular dogpiling code written by Kael and amended by Tholal.

[*] Is mokka resurrected when he is killed once? Or is there any way a civ could have stolen his cauldron without killing him?

It is possible that another Barbarian (or Illian, after the Draw) unit could have taken the equipment from Mokka and then lost in after dying in battle.

It is also possible that a player with the Council of Esus state religion used the Steal ability to take the equipment.

I add an ability that lets you take equipment from a teammate or rival too, but those only work if the equipment is in unit rather than promotion form and not defended.

 

[Akbarthegreat]

Not in general.

If a Skeleton controlled by the Barbarian State wins enough battles and gains enough xp to be level 4, then it may upgrade to a Specre through a special spell.

Similarly, Barbarian Spectres may upgrade to Wraiths at level 7.

Yeah that's what I wanted. Thanks.

Maybe.

It could also mean that your enemy requested support from the Undercouncil, and got enough votes to force all members of that council into the war.

Of it could just be regular dogpiling code written by Kael and amended by Tholal.

Yes that should most probably be it. The undercouncil that is. The wardec message appears when the AI is dogpiling right?

It is possible that another Barbarian (or Illian, after the Draw) unit could have taken the equipment from Mokka and then lost in after dying in battle.

It is also possible that a player with the Council of Esus state religion used the Steal ability to take the equipment.

I add an ability that lets you take equipment from a teammate or rival too, but those only work if the equipment is in unit rather than promotion form and not defended.

Hmm.. Well it must be some barbarians then (or might even be the Clan, but I don't know why Mokka would drop his cauldron).

 

[mickyd47]

Just had something interesting happen. So Orthus spawns right on my border as usual like he always does. He makes his way over to my city and moves onto an ancient forest tile. A treant defender is spawned which pushes Orthus off the tile and... into my city pushing my defenders out. He didn't take the city it still belonged to me. Next turn he attacks my treant and dies and the game says barbarian has created Orthus' axe but no axe seems to spawn. The equipment not dropping is something I've been seeing quite a bit of recently actually hope you can fix it, sucks to miss out of some of the items that drop from certain heroes.

 

[zldrago1000]

What does everyone think of the removal of 2 mana when adopting a religion? I'm starting to think that since we cant have it as simply -1, the whole losing mana thing should be scrapped.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

I don't use Steam so I'm not sure what problems it might cause.



I'm afraid I don't know much about Steam. Is there anyone who does who has it working who might be able to help?

http://support.2k.com/hc/en-us/arti...eamworks-Civilization-IV-Unsupported-on-Steam

I really should put that link in my signature, so many people both in the multiplayer and modding communities keep running into problems with Steam because they aren't aware that the current Civ4 version of Steam techncially isn't 3.19.

 

[Nothrazim]

What does everyone think of the removal of 2 mana when adopting a religion? I'm starting to think that since we cant have it as simply -1, the whole losing mana thing should be scrapped.

Personally i am fine with it. It makes it crazy hard to pursue a Tower victory, but it's a fair trade off for the power of a religion, at least if you own the holy city.

Ashen Veil suffers from no Creation mana if you have the luck to have some, but Sacrifice the Weak + Fertility would be stupid good.

Runes + Air mana would allow you to get both the cheap Soldiers/Paramanders and good stack defense from Air II, but Air in my opinion doesn't matter that much otherwise - especially as you get the falling rock (forgot the name) spell from the Runekeepers.

Fellowship won't be able to get Ice, but you only get Ice magic for Tower victory or because you are playing Illian, so it doesn't really matter. Order is in a little bit of the same spot i think - maybe i am just using them wrong, but i find Pit Beasts to be subpar. At any rate, they are fairly equivalent to the Einherjars.

Esus loses Sun mana, which is mostly good for the Sun II spell, though Mind II can be a perfectly fine supplement for that. You lose Scorch too, but personally i don't recall using Scorch ever except when either conquering the Illians or playing as the Malakim.

Shadow is pretty nice though for attacking cities, so Empyrean loses a bit in that - but an ample supply of City Raider Radiants should compensate for that, especially backed up by some Pillars of Fire.

Overlords i suppose loses the most, because Fire II is so good. I've never used Fire I myself, except to antagonize rivals, and Fire III isn't that great. But that is, in my opinion, an ok trade off for being able to contest the Lanun on the water.

Overall, i don't see it being a big problem, unless as mentioned you're aiming for some of those sweet Towers. And thematically, the aspects losts fit so incredibly well anyway (no Chaos for Order, no Sun for Empyrean, et cetera)

 

[Gomo]

http://support.2k.com/hc/en-us/arti...eamworks-Civilization-IV-Unsupported-on-Steam

Unfortunatelly it didn't work, but thanks.
I tried also on my old instalation of civ4 (but on j: drive) and didn't work either.
Hopefully some future version will work.

 

[DarkLunaPhantom]

Hello.
For some reason mod crashes after loading - music appears but no screen, and after few seconds game crashes without any notice.
I tried overwriting with zipped version - still the same.
I'm using civ with steam, but other FFH modmods are working.
Thanks for any advice in that matter.

Something like this happened to me when I tried to play MNAI modmods when installing it over FFH2 with blue marble. Redownloading everything without applying blue marble fixed the problem.