[MOD] MagisterModmod

[AuricAscended]

Hello everyone i doubt this is the location for this inquiry, but if anyone can answer my question , it is MagisterCultuum.
The actual mana nodes in the game seem like a logical step twords turning magic into a resource that must be cultivated and fought over and whilst reading through the AoE civlopedia i noticed that Belenus's entry also mentioned a mana crystal. So from a lore perspective what are mana crystals for and how did they work within Kael's DnD campaign? Were they a resource like diamond dust that must be expended for certain spells or are they simply the invention of necessity for the worlds greatest CIV mod?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I believe Kael said that mana crystals and nodes were an invention for the game mechanics of the Civ IV mod.

The way I think of it, the whole world is made of the 21 elements, but each element is usually so diffused and mixed with other elements that it is too difficult to channel. It is like in real world physics, where energy cannot be created or destroyed but can be found in more or less useful forms. You can build a powerful engine taking advantage of the differences in hot and cold, doing useful work which also results in energy diffusing more quickly and bringing the universe slightly slower to its eventual heat death. You cannot reverse entropy (in the sentient rather than Agares' sense) overall, but can locally overcome it only with the help of energy inputs from outside the system.

Mana crystals would be pure concentrated sources of a single element, which could easily channeled into areas where that element is less concentrated in order to power a wide range of spells. There are certain areas in Erebus where each element is concentrated, but those cannot compare to the infinite plains of pure elements created by Agares and linked to the Gems of Creation. Erebus is slowly approaching its own heat death when there are no more local sources of concentrated elements sufficient to allow any magic, but those who can access the gems of creation (i.e., the gods, plus the three mortal brothers who stole one gem each) could continue to channel indefinitely and hold of the heat death forever.

 

[TechPriest321]

Was recently playing a game as the Grigori, and the Khazad declared war on me just after I turned one of my adventurers into an Archmage with Spirit III, so I decided to use the ability. Later, I gave another Archmage Life III, but when I went to resurrect the Adventurer with Spirit III, the option didn't come up. Is this a bug, or can you not resurrect units who use the Peace spell?

 

[civerfey]

AI has multiple big stacks of units with a dozen promotions each early game?

I've been playing and loving this mod since it's first versions. I'm coming back to it after a Civ 6 break. I don't remember the AI using so many waves of pretty ridiculously promoted units. Our tech level is still bronze age and the Khazad is sending 3 or 4 stacks of 8 or more units of SoK at a time. Every unit in the stack is promoted with about a dozen promotions. When i manage to wipe out a stack it is nearly immediately replaced with the same. Is this a recent change in the mod or am i just getting this because i'm playing on higher difficulties than before.

Also some games are having CtD problems. I don't recall having that problem with other versions of this mod since the earlier versions. I can't seem to isolate them as they don't repeat on the same turn. But if i get one in a game that game will continue to CtD in some random place at some point. Some games don't crash at all. I'm wondering if that means it's a specific civ in the game.

Possibly relevant game settings: huge maps with revolutions on.

 

[AuricAscended]

A quick question. Where did Kael and the production team get all of the art for Somnium and where is it located in the files? ive been searching all night for it!

 

[Lord Meire]

Found a bug, apparently Gibbon Goetia can duplicate if he shapeshifts into an ogre warchief while he has the Immortality promotion. I've got one in my capital after having "died" while the original is still fine next to the Palus.

 

[Cutlass]

Found a bug, apparently Gibbon Goetia can duplicate if he shapeshifts into an ogre warchief while he has the Immortality promotion. I've got one in my capital after having "died" while the original is still fine next to the Palus.

Been there.

Early on after building Gibbon he found a ruin that had an ogre guarding it. So he mimicked the ogre. That was a big step up in power that early in the game. And went on to 900 experience points and level 35? Plus all the mimic stolen promotions. But when you get far enough up the tech tree, an ogre becomes an ogre warchief. And so both stronger, and immortal. Plus, if you use Black Mirror, then when the mirror 'dies', it gets reborn. So I have 5 Gibbons.

 

[Lord Meire]

I didn't use the Black Mirror though, his doppelganger just randomly showed up when I cancelled the transformation. (At that point the warchief form was actually significantly weaker thanks to his true form's affinity.)

 

[MagisterCultuum]

What would you think if I gave the Sidar a civ-specific replacement for the Tower of Necromancy? It never made sense to me that a civilization that reveres Arawn and considers Necromancy an intolerable abomination should be required to build a tower to enhance the undead and grant them death mana before they can pursue a Tower of Mastery victory. I'm thinking of giving them an alternative, representing true Death magic instead of Undeath, probably called the Tower of Respite.

It would neither require nor provide any Death mana. It might even give a negative supply. (That does however cause some annoying asserts when using a debug DLL, and Tholal said it could confuse the AI. Because of this I'm currently playing around with a version where the religious mana buildings are removed, and the python code that grants promotions based on mana is more complex.)

I'm thinking it might grant units in the city Life 2, remove Death 2 (or maybe the Immortal promotion), provide some great person points towards Shades. Initially I was thinking of having it provide Shrines of Arawn in every city (and thus prevent the undead from entering any Sidar city) or give those buildings some happiness synergy, but the fact they are both UBs would make the pedia really confusing and could have weird effects with the Tolerant/Arrogator trait.

Most significantly, it could give everyone who dies in their lands the Netherbind effect (the same thing that the Netherblade gives is victims). This would mean that those who die in Sidar lands could not be resurrected, could not be processed by the Soul Forge, and could not return as either Angels or Manes.

(The Sidar would of course believe that they are serving Arawn by following plans found in the Books of Laroth, not knowing that they are helping the author conscript a rebel army to overthrow the God of Death. This could explain why Basium tried to exterminate the Sidar.)

I'm also thinking of letting some Sidar units (probably Archmages, but maybe high priests) summon Angels of Death. I could also let units in the city with the Tower summon them.

 

[Alexej]

Sounds interesting and lore feeling improving to me

 

[MagisterCultuum]

What if the Tower of Respite makes the whole empire impassible to the undead, prevents death spells from being used there, and binds units who die there to the netherworld so they can't be resurrected or return as angels/manes? The AI might not understand that as well as a benefit like giving everyone in the city Life II, but I think it is more thematic. I think I'll test it to see if the code runs fast enough.

Edit: Actually, it might be easier more efficient to simply kill every Undead unit that ever enters the borders of a player with this Tower, much the same way as the defect abilities work. Giving Netherbind to the player's units rather than units within the borders would be easier and more efficient too.

Edit2: I'm liking the name "Tower of Mortality" better now. I currently have it working so that the wonder grants +1 in every city, removed the Immortal promotion from units in the city, kill all undead units within your borders, prevents any Death magic from being cast there, makes all units within your borders mortal (except Avatars, as it want Auric Ascended to still be harder to kill), and binds souls to the netherworld so they cannot be resurrected or return as angels or manes.

 

[Sifonseal]

Hey Magister,

I've been making some additions to your modmod and recently I've gotten stuck trying to add in a guild screen to add in BtS guilds, so far as I can tell the python work seems sound, I must be missing changes that need to be made to a file other than CvScreensInterface (and obviously the new guild screen file). I've never tried messing around with these files before and haven't been able to find a proper tutorial so I'm not sure what changes need to be made to facilitate adding in a new screen.
I know you were thinking about adding in BtS guilds yourself so I was wondering if you have made any progress towards this?

On a slightly related topic, I would love to know what changes we can expect in the next version and if you have an idea of just how far away that release is?

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

I've been making some additions to your modmod and recently I've gotten stuck trying to add in a guild screen to add in BtS guilds, so far as I can tell the python work seems sound, I must be missing changes that need to be made to a file other than CvScreensInterface (and obviously the new guild screen file). I've never tried messing around with these files before and haven't been able to find a proper tutorial so I'm not sure what changes need to be made to facilitate adding in a new screen.
I know you were thinking about adding in BtS guilds yourself so I was wondering if you have made any progress towards this?

I assume you are talking about corporations, yes? I actually had the same issue when working on Final Frontier Plus. Have you looked into CvMainInterface.py?

Also I'm assuming there are other Fall From Heaven 2 modmods that added corporations/guilds, perhaps you could take a look at how they went about it?

 

[Sifonseal]

Ah yes, corporations indeed, I spent so much time looking at code calling it "Guilds" I didn't even realize my message could be misunderstood, thanks for making that clearer ^^'.

Hmm... Looked into CvMainInterface a bit again, so far as I can tell it seems to be mostly concerned only with the button for the guild screen and displaying guild icons (which works fine since it seems the original code for that was left untouched).
Either way, upon my second look I found a bit more there than I did the first time, I'll look deeper into it and see if I can't find something there, thanks for the tip ^^b.

I have been looking into how Ashes of Erebus have managed to do it (As far as I know they are the only major FfH2 mod that has added in guilds and even their corporation system isn't quite complete, there is no indicator of guilds present in a city outside the city screen). I've been trying to replicate the changes and then go from there.

Edit:
Oh, and I should have mentioned, I've got guilds working well enough at this point, they exist, you can found them etc etc everything works, I just can seem to add in the guild screen without causing python to blow up and I can't seem to get the present guilds to show up in the display below the city in the way that religions show up above the display. If you could point me to which python file generally handle that, that would be great too. (Though I've found bits of code that LOOK like they are trying to do exactly this, and they are completely intact but it still doesn't seem to perform the action...). Ultimately it is still completely "playable" at this point since the guild screen isn't actually used for anything but I would like to be able to see the present guilds in each city, the guild screen I'm willing to give up on at this point ^^'.

 

[Terkhen]

I have a backup of a very old version of Fall from Heaven 2 that still had guilds. They were removed by Kael at some point after that (I don't remember the exact reasons, but it had to do with them not having a fun gameplay). If you want to check it, let me know via private message and I will upload it somewhere for you. It needs BtS 3.17, though.

 

[Sifonseal]

Thanks for the offer Terkhen, even tho it is for 3.17 those XML and Python file folders may have some very useful info in them. They should be about 70 mb together (or less). If you are happy to upload them somewhere it might just be what we need to get past this speed bump ^^.


Edit: Sorted out the whole gc.getCorporationInfo(i).getChar() thing while I was adding in new bonuses (as such I am deleting the part of this message asking for help with that).
Still can't seem to find the python file that draws the city progress bar outside the city screen so I can plaster it with guild icons.

 

[Terkhen]

Here they are:

Fall from Heaven 2033: https://mega.nz/#!RVhFlQjI!DaWIG3U6X9ndLFaGIFmpKPgr_J_OgGhAfcZMOy68Ufc

Patch 2033g: https://mega.nz/#!cJ4XwJAZ!Y4o1G66W2TzMmfn8On_r9ORS3DWPsULnrnzeTMSKnkc

 

[Sifonseal]

Thanks Terkhen, was hoping you would have archived versions, I guess they never really had those for the official releases. I'll take a look at these and hopefully find what needs to be changed.


Edit:

Also Magister, just checking, are you able to make a few tiny and simple edits to the .dll or do you not have access to the source code at all?

Edit II:
Just a quick update for any interested:
All guild stuff got sorted as I was adding a mass on new bonuses, solid 20+ guilds now all displaying perfectly (Just no guild screen yet but at this point it shouldn't be too hard to add one in if I really need to).
Smooth sailing from here I think just a ton of simple python and xml for adding in stuff, after the last couple of days wrapping my head around Civ modding I think I've finally got the hang of this ^^. Thanks again Terkhen for pointing me in the right direction over in the MNAI thread ^^b.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

What would you think if I gave the Amurites a new unique unit to replace Royal Guard?

Canonically speaking, the Mage Guilds are the Amurite Aristocracy. In most nations Royal Guards are drawn from the sons of the rich noble houses that own most of the country. The Amurites have no hereditary nobility. A few magic bloodlines may dominate, but it is illegal for those born of such lineages to ever learn who their parents are. Anyone with innate magical talent is raised by the guild, indoctrinated to believe that their own guild is the only family that deserves their loyalty. All the guilds teach their adepts to serve the nation as a whole, but most also instill a deep suspicion as to the motives of their rival guilds.

Any Amurite that could be called an aristocrat would have arcane potential, and would have been trained as an adept as a child whether or not he ever advanced to become a Wizard or Archmage. Those with true talent prefer the more honorable path of a cloistered wizard, but many who would be considered talented mages in other lands fail all the Cave Trials. These must find some other way to serve their Guild, and to protect their nation from less scrupulous sorcerers.

I'm thinking that the Arcane Guard would start with Channeling 1, Channeling 2, Magic Resistance, Enchantment 1, and Force 2.

I might also make them immune to Govannon's Ethics, as the guilds canonically hate anyone sharing their secrets with the uninitiated.

Thanks Terkhen, was hoping you would have archived versions, I guess they never really had those for the official releases. I'll take a look at these and hopefully find what needs to be changed.


Edit:

Also Magister, just checking, are you able to make a few tiny and simple edits to the .dll or do you not have access to the source code at all?

Edit II:
Just a quick update for any interested:
All guild stuff got sorted as I was adding a mass on new bonuses, solid 20+ guilds now all displaying perfectly (Just no guild screen yet but at this point it shouldn't be too hard to add one in if I really need to).
Smooth sailing from here I think just a ton of simple python and xml for adding in stuff, after the last couple of days wrapping my head around Civ modding I think I've finally got the hang of this ^^. Thanks again Terkhen for pointing me in the right direction over in the MNAI thread ^^b.

I suppose I am technically able to make changes to the DLL. Tholal does make the source code available. I have compiled a few DLLs before, but it has been almost a decade since I tried. I made a couple minor changes to the DLL which did not seem to cause any problem, but after my third attempt the game became very unstable and I never figured out why. In the end I decided it is much easier to have someone else handle all the C++ work for me. I don't have the proper software installed on my current computer, and would have to essentially learn everything all over again. It would be easier to ask Tholal or one of the other modmoders that post code in the MNAI threads.

 

[Calavente]

Regarding Arcane Guards :
I don't remember the starting mana for Amurites,
but IMO, one of the perks of Enchantement is Enchant I. that you get "only" with Bambur, unless you got an enchantment mana.
Giving it to Amurites for "free" @ Royal Guard would be too strong (unless Amurite get Enchantement from palace)

I'd go with "boosted melee guards" : (Water II?), Earth II, Force II ; enchanted blade ; (Guardsman?)
+ same city improving spell : Spirit II.

what about it ?