1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

MagisterModmod

Discussion in 'FfH2 Modmods, Scenarios, and Maps' started by MagisterCultuum, Feb 27, 2012.

  1. Tasunke

    Tasunke Crazy Horse

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    2,800
    Location:
    the 1800s
    I see, so the limit is that you yourself can only summon 3 lords (active at any one time)

    Does the pact end when the Lord himself dies? Or when his civ dies?

    For instance, could I summon three, kill their lords, and then summon 3 more? (for maximizing the number of demon civs in the world I suppose)
     
  2. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2007
    Messages:
    16,263
    Location:
    Kael's head
    Until about 5 minutes before you asked this I had it set up so the pact ends with the player is defeated, but had just changed it to work when the avatar unit is vanquished instead.

    I guess you could summon all of the demon lords in turn if you really want, but you could only enjoy the benefits of the Pact with 3 at a time and would anger the others every time to bring in a rival.

    Also, your mortal rivals could use the ritual to resurrect the avatars of vanquished demon lords, gaining the benefits of the Pact for themselves and making the Infernal join their wars against you. If only the Avatar unit was vanquished, they may still have a whole empire and armies ready to turn against you, plus the new reinforcements that would appear with their lord in the capital city.

    You do not regain the ability to make another Pact if you loose your pact due to converted away from the Ashen Veil State religion, or due to going to war with the Demon Lord you summoned (even if the Infernal starts that war). If you do abandon the AV faith, the demon lords you summoned will will gain a large diplomatic penalty towards you and will prepare to declare war on you.




    I am currently playing around with a change to the Barbarian trait, making it more like it was in Vanilla FfH2. The research penalty would go back to -10%. It would again cause the Barbarian state to end their truce if you grow "too civilized," i.e., have more than 2/3 of the score of the top player in the game. However, this would not happen if you have any the Demonic Pact traits. Furthermore, the war would not be eternal. The Barbarians would also offer you peace again whenever you fall bellow 1/2 of the highest score, unless you are someone's vassal. Players with the Barbarian trait would be free to declare war at any time to capture a valuable barbarian city or something, but the truce might be restored before the barbarians have a chance to take it back.

    (None of the Demon Lords have the Barbarian trait, just the peace with barbarians from their Pact trait.)

    Edit: I'm thinking of giving the Beast of Agares a new ability. It would let them comsume some of the local population, causing unhappiness and revolts, in order to increase their duration, fully heal themselves, regain the ability to attack again in the same turn, and maybe remove the Bound by the Compact effect (if someone has Banished the beast).

    I'm thinking it would require a Demons Altar, but could be used in other player's territory. This ability could not be used in Infernal/Fallow trait lands, but the Infernal might be able to send their Beasts to mortal lands and consume population at Demons' Altars there.

    I'm also thinking that the beasts would automatically feed on the local population when it it first summoned. It would not be as big an effect as in base FfH2 where training the Beasts (who are not a summon) causes 4 turns of revolt, but I'm thinking increasing the revolt by 1 and the uhappiness by an amount equal to the units duration makes sense.

    How does that change sound to you?
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
  3. Erik Mesoy

    Erik Mesoy Core Tester / Intern

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2002
    Messages:
    10,955
    Location:
    Oslo, Norway
    I can't seem to get Medic III for that Falamar invasion scenario where units don't heal normally. I have a Stonewarden with Medic II and enough experience to get a promotion, but can only select from (Combat, City Garrison, City Raider, Drill, Guerilla, Mobility, March). I have the Medicine technology. What am I missing?
     
  4. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2007
    Messages:
    16,263
    Location:
    Kael's head
    Medic III does not have any UNITCOMBAT types associated with it, so no one can actually purchase it. I'm not sure why I gave it a tech prereq, but given how useful ti is I think the Medicine tech is too early to allow its universal availability. In the next release I think I may let disciple and recon units buy it, but only with Omniscience.
     
  5. Erik Mesoy

    Erik Mesoy Core Tester / Intern

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2002
    Messages:
    10,955
    Location:
    Oslo, Norway
    So how am I intended to play the Black Tower, if human units won't heal on their own and the tooltip advice to heal them with Medic 3 is unavailable? Shrine of Sirona comes to mind, but that doesn't seem like it would carry a game.
     
  6. Tasunke

    Tasunke Crazy Horse

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    2,800
    Location:
    the 1800s
    Previously, Medic III/ Heal Spell was something specifically for High Priests at Theology (and Grigori Medics at Medicine)

    I think it could be a fair play to introduce one Grigori medic mercenary (that may die if the player is too careless), to be used whenever the player feels it is the right time to introduce him to the combats. And then to eventually get High Priests (which come much sooner than Omnicience)

    Due to the relative weakness of High Priests, and more importantly due to the Scarcity of them, I think it is an important tool for them to have.

    -----------------------------------------------

    As for Barbarian Trait, I am uncertain of how it currently works .... but allowing Barb players to regain peace with the Barbarians would be absolutely lovely. I assume the way it works currently is that it is permanent unless broken by the player? Yes, I think allowing for Barbs or Player to both war with the other and then truce is more realistic.

    I suppose then that you are making no distinction between 'wild' barbarians like savage Orcs, and 'hellspawn' barbarians like Daemons and the Four Horsemen? I think a distinction could prove useful, making the former more useful for early and mid-game, and the latter more useful for the late game .... but to each their own. Perhaps the two traits could offer the same functionality and penalties, or perhaps they should be somewhat different? Perhaps Daemons declare war on you if you switch alignment out of Evil ... and their penalty is -5% food or something ... wheras Savage Barbarians declare war based upon Score, and the penalty is the -10% science.

    ----------------------------------------------

    As to Beasts of Agares, I am uncertain what their current durations are .... although to go through the trouble of feasting I believe that should AT LEAST increase their duration by 3 turns ... even if that brings their total duration to 9 turns, if it only is adding 3 to the duration, then it should give the city +3 unhappy and maybe +1 turns of revolt. Any penalties more than that would be excessive, and any Benefits less than that would be boring and unuseful. ((Unless its just like Spectres and can be summoned at 0 cost by some mage or something ... but I assume it is being summoned by the city?))
     
  7. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2007
    Messages:
    16,263
    Location:
    Kael's head
    I think I will add Grigori Medics to the list of units that can be recruited as mercenaries.

    I just realized you probably meant to give Falamar one at the start of the scenario. I guess I could do that too. I don't really play the scenarios much myself though.

    In Vanilla FfH2 the Barbs would declare war on the player if his score was more than 2/3 that of the strongest player at any point past 20 turns into the game.

    In Magister modmod it has long been the case that the peace was permanent unless the player broke it, and then could only be regained through an Infernal Pact.

    I have since coded it so that the peace should be broken like in Vanilla FfH2 if the player does not also have a Pact with [Demon Lord] trait, and should be regained if the player falls to the lower half of scores again. It code did not seem to be functional in my first playtest through. I will need to test some more and find out what I wrote wrong.
    Separating the barbarians into multiple factions requires C++ work that I don't think it worth the effort. I'd rather just use Tholal's DLL.

    I have thought of making the 4 Horsemen and Avatar of Wrath inherently Hidden Nationality or Always Hostile. That would make them dangerous to demon lords too. I have not made up my mind on this yet.

    In vanilla FfH2 Beasts of Agares are a normal National unit (limit 4 at a time per player, with no duration limits) that must be trained in cities, and cause 4 turns of revolt when completed.

    In MagisterModmod they have long been a summon availible only to Ashen Veil units with Divine 2 (i.e., High Priests and some heroes). A Profane can only summon one in a city with a Demons Altar, and cannot summon another until the previous Beast dies, but there is no more cost to producing a new beast than to summoning a Spectre. Like Pit Beasts, they have the Cannibalize promotion and their duration is increased when they win in combat. They have Angel Slaying and are strong against Paladins, and heal completely upon defeating a Paladin. Their strength was 11 base + 5 Unholy.

    Yesterday I gave them the ability to target Paladins in stacks of other units, doubled their combat bonus against Paladins, made defeating a Paladin increase their duration by more, gave them Sentry 2, reduced their base strength to 10, and reduced their free duration from combat to +1 (from +2). A new "Devour Populace" ability was added which lets them completely heal, extends their duration by +2, restores a movement point, and lets them attack again in the same turn. It also causes temporary anger equal to the unit's current duration, makes the city revolt for one turn, and reduces the population by 2.

    Devour Populace requires a Demons Altar and cannot be used in cities whose owners have the Fallow trait. While it is impossible to summon a Beast of Agares outside of a city, it does not have to be in your city. You could send your Profanes into rival cities and sacrifice their populace instead of your own, or send the Beasts on their own to feast on your vassals. This causes a diplomatic penalty, but is definitely something Demon Lords would like to do.

    (I also just made it so Bound By Compact is passed on to a unit's summons, so a Demon Lord like Judecca who himself can cast Summon Beast of Agares would summon a beast that cannot leave Hell/AV lands. He could however send a Beast into a mortal city to feast, and the process would remove Bound By Compact from the beast and let it freely roam the rest of Erebus.)

    It automatically uses the ability when first summoned (except in Fallow cities), but because the onUnitCreated code runs before the DLL applies limited duration to summons that usage does not boost the unit's duration.

    If the Beast of Agares is razing a captured city, it will ignore the normal restrictions and automatically cast Devour Populace over and over again so long as there is anyone left living there (much the same way that Vampiric units and Eaters of Dreams automatically cast Feast and Consume Soul when razing a city in my modmod.) This means that a Beast of Agares destroying city of a size 25 could have its duration increased by 50.


    .
     
  8. Erik Mesoy

    Erik Mesoy Core Tester / Intern

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2002
    Messages:
    10,955
    Location:
    Oslo, Norway
    Based on my attempt to play the scenario, Falamar really needs some way to get more than one. It was hard enough to defend my own landing-point-city as the scenario runs now, let alone advance on the Sheaim. They spammed fireballs and had one leader-unit (I think?) who was an archmage with early access to a Fire Elemental with the Summoner boost. And the Sheaim had assassins, too, so a single Medic would eventually get assassinated and then the scenario would be almost unwinnable. So please, tell me more about hiring medic mercenaries will work.

    Two smaller things that struck me as odd about the Black Tower scenario:
    -the Heron Throne is incredibly important in that scenario. With small peninsular starting island, one-tile island nearby, and the enemy being entrenched on the only major landmass, it's pretty much Heron Throne or GTFO. Without it you won't have the shields to fight. It should perhaps be limited to Falamar-only so that the early game doesn't turn into a coinflip of whether or not to restart because the Sheaim got the Heron Throne first.
    -How come the Evil Overlord Final Boss AI is founding Order?? I was counting on being able to get Order at leisure, expecting that Sheaim+Infernals would never bother with it.
     
  9. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2008
    Messages:
    46,665
    Location:
    US of A
    In my current game, which is on the latest download, the game options don't seem to be working right. I set it to not allow religion, Cult of Dragon, but it happened anyways. I built Dies Diei, but the units built in that city are not getting Perfect Sight, nor is that even an option I can add to them with World Builder. I'm not sure what's going on. I'm doing fairly well in score, but there's no iron or copper anyplace that I can get to it without a war against someone stronger, so I may just abandon this game.
     
  10. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2007
    Messages:
    16,263
    Location:
    Kael's head
    Because of your complaints, I just now added the Grigori as one of the city types you may select in this scenario; that means you should be able to build Grigori Medics in such a city once you have Medicine and an Infirmary, and may also gain access to Dragon Slayers and Adventurers.

    I thought about setting it so that you had to unlock the Grigori just like the other civs, but it has been too long since I worked with the trophy system and don't want to try to figure it out again right now. Thus, the Grigori option should always be available.

    I also went ahead and blocked non-human players in this scenario from building The Heron Throne or from researching Orders from Heaven, Honor, Way of the Earthmother, or Way of the Forest. It would be too much work to block specific civs from founding religions with disciples rescued from lairs, but this means they cannot found them the normal way before you can.
     
    Erik Mesoy likes this.
  11. Nothrazim

    Nothrazim Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2009
    Messages:
    74
    Your signature & first post still list October as the last update. Is the downloadable file updated to include these changes (Black Tower, Demonic Pact, etc)?
     
  12. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2007
    Messages:
    16,263
    Location:
    Kael's head
    Not yet. I was hoping to get another MNAI update to merge in first to improve the stability before I release.

    Since I don't have an ETA on that though, I may go ahead and release something later today. I will be busy with work for the rest of this week, but today I only need to be there for a couple hours this afternoon and even that might be cancelled due to weather concerns. I think I'll start one last playtest now, and if things go smoothly have something uploaded tonight. If I find any more bugs it may have to wait a week or more though.

    p.s. I'm play testing the Lord of the Balors scenario, because one of the last changes I made was to apply the Demonic Pact traits to players through the demon lord Temptation events. It is applying them just fine, but I have to wait a while to be sure they will be removed properly.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2018
    Nothrazim likes this.
  13. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2007
    Messages:
    16,263
    Location:
    Kael's head
    I just uploaded the latest update. It may take a while for ModDB's mirrors to make the downloads ready.
     
    Erik Mesoy likes this.
  14. Alexej

    Alexej Prince

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    437
    thanks for sharing :goodjob:
     
  15. Qgqqqqq

    Qgqqqqq Emperor

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2012
    Messages:
    1,073
    Magister, I really enjoy using your mod for single player games. My one issue is the +50% cost to settler per one existing mechanic. I find this very annoying in most games, especially as the marginal benefit of a settler generally reduces as more are built, encourages odd min-maxing behavior (building until one finishes then pausing till it settles), and makes it hard for a large civ to expand in many directions.

    Preferably there would be one set cost, but if it must change (presumably because hammers are more available later in the game, and you want the first few to be cheaper), I have some suggestions:

    • Increase per cities in your civilization, to a flat maximum.
    • Increase per total population, to a flat maximum.
    • Increase in each era (preferably with reduced bumps, so as not to prompt artificial behavior)
    If you're not interested in doing this, would you be able to point me to the code so I can adjust it myself?


    As a separate issue, is there a way to change BUG so that cities start with "Avoid Unhappy Population" unchecked? It's really annoying unchecking this, and very, very rare for me to prefer this behavior to normal growth mechanics.

    Thanks.
     
  16. Annihilat0r

    Annihilat0r Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    Germany
    Great work, I am amazed you are still working on this in 2018. I was about to install the latest version, but the installer can't find the location of my FfH2 installation. Does anyone know which registry key it checks? Furthermore, if I was to use the zip file, do I have to do anything other than extracting the content to .../Mods/ ?
     
  17. Erik Mesoy

    Erik Mesoy Core Tester / Intern

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2002
    Messages:
    10,955
    Location:
    Oslo, Norway
    I figured I'd experiment with the Revolutions option in the latest version, and now something bizarre is happening.
    mmstability.png
    Here in the screenshot is a city showing that my Empire stability is "Dangerously Unstable: (Worsening)" despite listing five good factors and no bad factors! What should I do about this?
    I have Theocracy government and the Runes of Kilmorph holy city. My other civics are Nationhood, Arete, Foreign Trade, No Membership.

    Strangely, every individual city is at Safe.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
    Imp. Knoedel likes this.
  18. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2007
    Messages:
    16,263
    Location:
    Kael's head
    I'm not sure how it got there, but I just found a mistake in line 6811 of CvRandomEventInterface.py, where it says 'pInfernalTeamFounderTeam' instead of pFounderTeam." This needs to be fixed for the Infernal Pact's demon summoning to work right. Actually, now that I look at it, that line is completely superfluous as the same (corrected) statement is already made a couple lines higher.
     
  19. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2008
    Messages:
    46,665
    Location:
    US of A
    Do you know why sometimes workers surrender, and sometimes they fight to the death?
     
  20. Mknn

    Mknn Prince

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2007
    Messages:
    337
    Location:
    Houston
    I just tried to install this, and am receiving this

    upload_2018-1-15_20-43-38.png

    I get that whether I run the install or extract from the archive. The mod is in the "correct" folder:

    upload_2018-1-15_20-44-24.png

    Am trying to see if I can find the entry, but any advice appreciated!
     

Share This Page