Discussion in 'FfH2 Modmods, Scenarios, and Maps' started by MagisterCultuum, Feb 27, 2012.
@OKSleeper: If you have a savegame from directly before the crash, I can debug it.
Here's a couple of crashes. The first crashes between turns, and the 2nd as soon as you sink the enemy Galley. I have others if need be. I actually have begun new games so am more concerned with stopping the crashes going forward.
Trying this out. I have been playing extramodmod / MNAI, and have gotten used to a dense city strategy (each city settled 3 tiles away from another city). Why was this changed to require cities be settled 4 tiles away from another city?
The first crash is due to building the white hand, Magister has to fix this. I provided more details here.
The second crash occurs when attacking a ship with a boarding party. The cause is indeed the fix in MNAI-U I suspected. However, this uncovered a more fundamental problem with boarding parties that is due to the messy way civ uses to kill off units. Even without my change, the game crashes in the rare event that you capture a ship without it having a chance to "escape". I'll see if I can fix this bug for the next MNAI-U release.
EDIT: Bug fixed, but it was due to ships having the "boarding" promotion, not boarding parties.
repeatable CTD; Magister version of may 27th 2019.
I end the turn and it crashes to desktop...
I waited for upgrading to newer versions due to this game, and now it is dead...
Which recent version is the most stable ?
Another for ya...
Reclaimed this old account of mine and just wanted to say I'm really enjoying this modmod Are there any general tips or suggestions for helping someone avoid/minimize OOS errors? I know turning off random events is a good step but is there anything like maps to avoid? Civs that affect OOS indirectly? Thanks!
I think recent revelations on the powers and backstory of the lesser demon lords requires some changes to how they are implemented in my modmod.
I had hoped each Demon Lord would have affinity for a different evil sphere of magic, but instead we have 2 with Spirit Affinity, 2 with Body affinity, one with Earth Affinity, and all 7 with Entropy affinity.
It seems entirely inappropriate for a Body 2/Entropy 2 demon lord to give your units Fire or Chaos Affinity, so that mechanism is gone.
I am still tweaking things and not ready to release, but I thought I'd explain how things are working now so I can some feedback.
The events that summon Demon Lords give all the summoner's Ritualists, Profanes, Balors, and Mobius Witches a "Pact with [Demon Lord]" promotion. (That Demon Lord's own Ritualists, Profanes, Balors, and Mobius Witches also start with the associated promotion.)
Other units with Unholy Taint, Ashen Veil unit religion, Ashen Veil state religion, level 6, and knowledge of the Malevolent Designs technology may purchase any of the "Pact with [Demon Lord]" promotions like ordinary promotions.
Each "Pact with [Demon Lord]" promotion blocks access to all others.
Each will be removed if the unit's owner is at war with the associated Demon Lord, or if that Demon Lord becomes Furious towards the unit's owner.
Each may be removed by the Exorcism spell.
Each taints the tile, raising the plot counter and making it become hell terrain more quickly than just having Demon or Unholy Taint.
Any "Pact with [Demon Lord]" promotion makes a unit Evil and may cause a living unit to return as Manes, but the unit will go to that Demon Lord instead of to a random Infernal Player. If you are at war with one Demon Lord, you could strategically choose to deny him your unit's souls by promising those souls to one of his rivals instead.
Purchasing a "Pact with [Demon Lord]" promotion with xp will cause a +1 diplomatic bonus with that Demon Lord and a similar penalty with Basium.
Pact with Hyborem grants +2 Entropy affinity and lets the unit cast the spell "Dominate Demon" (previously requiring Gela and Hero) to take control of demons from other players.
Pact with Judecca grants +1 Entropy Affinity, +1 Earth Affinity, passes on Rusted though combat, and has iBombardRateChange of 66 so that just a couple of these units should be able to reduce any city or super-fortress's fortifications to 0.
Pact with Lethe grants +1 Entropy Affinity, +1 Spirit Affinity, passed on Fatigued from combat, and allows the spell Despair (which adds Fatigued, removes Courage, Morale, and Valor from enemy living units, removes Hope and Hope Greater from adjacent cities, and deals potentially lethal levels of Psychic damage)
Pact with Meresin grants +1 Entropy Affinity, +1 Body Affinity, passes on Plagues from combat, and allows the Greater Contagion spell (adding Plagued, Diseased, and Enraged to enemy living units)
Pact with Ouzza grants +1 Entropy Affinity, +1 Body Affinity, makes the unit immune to Plagued and Diseased, lets the unit heal while moving and heal an extra 60% per turn in friendly, neutral, or enemy territory.
Pact with Sallos grants +1 Entropy Affinity and lets the unit cast Summon Succubus, creating a Succubus unit that also has Pact with Sallos (although their limited duration won't let them summon more of themselves, it does let his Succubi have affinity as well as the normal Flying and Mind 2 promotions)
Pact with Statius grants +1 Entropy Affinity, +1 Spirit Affinity, immunity to fear, immunity to Courage, immunity to Fatigued, immunity to the Assuage and Despair spells, immunity to Psychic damage, and a +100% combat bonus against the Spirit Affinity promotion.
I have not yet touched the various"Pact with [Demon Lord]" Traits. Most do not seem appropriate or necessary anymore, since I realized I can apply promotions via event and trigger an event to be undone. I might get rid of those trait altogether, or might try to change their effects.
On an unrelated note, I am thinking of diverging slightly from the canon lore in term of Calabim naming customs.
Kael said that Mahon the Butcher's official name is "Mahon Flauros Alexis" and that Losha Valas's full name if "Losha Valas Alexis." Each vampire merely appends the full name of his or sire to her own name when he is given the dark gift, although in normal usage they do not often list more than one or two generations back.
I am of the opinion that simply stringing names together without any sort of divider is just awkward. I am leaning towards using the Nobiliary particle "von." Losha would then be remaned "Losha von Valas." A Moroi raised by Alexis would then be named "Moroi von Losha." If you named that Moroi "Dain" before making him a vampire the name would be "Dain von Losha."
I am also leaning towards just using the same formula for units given vampirism from a city's Governor's Manor. You would thus get "Beastmaster von Lambshold" instead of "Beastmaster, Spawn of Lord Lambshold."
I'm still deciding whether I want to go so far as to change the leaders' names to "Mahon von Flauros, the Butcher" and "Flauros von Alexis."
those pacts with Demon are huge boost to unit strength, especially for units that can be mass produced.
this is especially further enhanced by the Pacts being available mid game, so quite early.
I expect that the affinity mentionned here is the str-type affinity (otherwise what is the meaning of 2 entropy affinities).
so in that case affinity to 2 mana types + a big powerful spell / ability makes those units very strong.
if its the "magical affinity" : it is still 2 magical affinity (so 2 bigger spells) + a big spell/ability.
and those earning are apparently at "no cost"... as long as you are evil & summon a demon.
it behaves like a trait-earned promotion while being much much stronger.
so my question is the following: what do the good / neutral or Esus-evil / OO-evil has to counter that ?
from a critical analysis & a gaming point of view, if the "pacts" don't have counter-parts on the "good/ neutral" side, their balance should/would come with a great cost : (below are examples that might not be good)
- needs to sacrifice 10 pops ?
- removes all mana spheres from unit and ability to earn new mana sphere save for the ones of the affinity ?
- removes 25 xp from the unit ? (so it stays at level 6, but has to re-earn the xp?)
- need to "consume" 2-3 other level 7 units?
- need to "consume" 7 level 3 units of the same civ ? (but level 3 is very low)
- non-Pact units of the civ get -50%xp, -1str, -moral
- Anti-demon promotion gives +100% against Pact-promotion ?
- Life-2 (or maybe Force 2?) gains the banish-demon spell : does damage to demons (like banish-undead) and to demonic-pact units ? (maybe it needs a specific tech, or maybe it needs the Mercurian Gate to have been built somewhere)
You're right, +2 affinity for so many units probably is too much.
I was talking about having the promotion add strength based on mana supply, using the basic affinity mechanic. This mod does not have the ability to such things as movement affinity. Adding the affinity promotions that add spells would get really complicated fast.
When I first made it +2 affinity I was only having the bonuses apply to Profanes, but then I went back to wanting more widespread bonuses.
I wish it were possible to add fractional affinity, so Hyborem could grant +1 Entropy and Meresin +0.5 Entropy and +0.5 Body.
I guess I could just give +1 Entropy affinity for Hyborem and Sallos, +1 Body for Meresin and Ouzza, and +1 Spirit for Statius and Lethe.
Or maybe I could make it so that every Pact promotion just grants +1 Entropy affinity but cause units with Spirit/Body affinity to get the pact promotion along with those with Unholy Taint.
I was originally thinking of making it so that each Pact promotion would not be purchased like normal promotions but instead could be gained from spells that required Demon's Altars, perhaps journeying to Altars in the Demon Lord's own territory. I was considering unique costs for each, but was having trouble coming up with enough good ideas. Allowing a normal purchase was just a lot easier, and I would prefer to keep the total number of spells down because he game checks spells so often that having too many can slow the game down.
What if I made it so that the Pact promotions do not expire when relations sour with the Demon Lord, but instead act like Herald's Blessing and may cause the unit to randomly die as their souls are claimed by the Demon Lord. That would be a more thematic option, but it might really confuse the AI. I could also make the unit defect to serve that demon lord much like Empyrean units defect from the Calabim or Children of the One units defect from players with state religions to the Grigori when such players are at war.
I like the idea of having Demon Slaying give a bonus against each, but current a promotion can only modify combat based on one other promotion. I could give each pact a negative bonus towards demon slaying if I did not also give Pact with Statius a bonus against Spirit affinity.
I already have an Order high priest "Banish" spell that effects evil units like demons and those with the Pact promotions, pushing them back to hell terrain and giving them Bound By Compact so they cannot leave hell.
Exorcism also removed any pact promotions.
On another note, Kael's recent reddit bonus entry on Churel Alexis has me thinking about adding some undead vampires to the game.
I currently have it coded so that only living vampires can cast use Feast, and so that only living units can be fed to living vampires but that Undead units (with unlimited duration) can be fed to Undead Vampires (the Graveleeches of Clan Churel).
At first I was thinking of making the Graveleech the Calabim UU to replace the Lich, but now I am thinking I may prefer to add Churel himself as a second Calabim hero. The unit would start with Undead, Vampire, Vile Touch, Fear, Death Affinity, and Spirit Affinity (possibly intrinstic to the unit instead of the promotion, as Courage and Hope don't fit his character to well). The prereq would probably be Malevolent Designs, but possibly Strength of Will. I might move Losha to Feudalism instead of Fanaticism so that she would not be on the same path of the tech tree.
Some civs do already have 2 heroes. Doviello have Lucien and the War Machine. Kuriotates have Herne and Eurabatres. Sheaim have Gosea and Abashi. Since none of them have the Hero promotion for more than one of their heroes, I'm thinking maybe Churel would a world unit but not a Hero too.
Can you think of any other canonical characters would would make good secondary heroes for other civs?
I like your ideas of "lowering" the power of pacts.
I know that your Modmod is more geared to balance things by having OP things everywhere.
However I still think that pacts are OP... because there doesn't seems to be much that is planned to oppose this / counter this.
Maybe pacts could have a +100%weakness to holy ?
+and you could gear :
bless & Demon Slaying & Paladins & Cursaders & Monks & Devouts, & Profane &Shield of Faith to get more "holy" damages
(IIRC Holy is neutral to all, undead & demon have weakness & angels have resistance ?)
(example : bless : -2 str, +3 holy / SoF : +20%str, -2str +2 holy / demon slaying : +40%vs demons, -1str +1holy ... etc)
Spoiler sorry, my rant about resistance and magical damage :
(I say +100%, because even if it seems huge, in practice, magical damage weakness or resistance is usually something of very low effect:
fire resistance or ice resistance being low might still have some use as fireballs, firestorms, RoF, tsunami, raging seas, snowfall, Blizzard are pure "fire/ice" damage (& Auric has 30, drifta 7) so having a 25% or even 50%resistance can really reduce the str of those spells.
even lightning has some sense as maelstrom & wind elementals are pure lightning damage, &
so those "resistance" or "weakness" can have a visible effect in some perticuliare cases.
Poison's main effect is that give the poisoned effect... and that it only applies to living units (and in such that machines, undeads, demons, golems, elementals, angels, illusions are immune)
Death's effect is that it only touch living units : machines, undeads, demons, golems, elementals, illusions are immune, and marginally angels have 50%resistance ; it only has "wither".. a tier III spell or "contagion" from mary morbius . (Death is a weaker effect than poison, but has wither/contagion to compensate)
--> resistances to poison & death are negligible, 50% is a cosmetic effect due to not enough of such damage in game & a unit with such resistance will still be much more affected than the immune ones)
Comparatively, Holy, unholy damages don't have much effect on the game .
Unholy only interest is that Demons are immune and marginally undead are 50% resistant, ; it has no related spell.
--> it's only perk is that those slight amounts of unholy damage (generally 1-2, max 5 but always less than 30% str) cannot be turned back to fight against demons. (so when demons fight against demons, the str balance changes stightly)
Holy only interest is that angels are immune and marginally undeads have 50%weakness, demons 25% weakness; it has only "crown of Brillance" ... (tier III spell, limited to 1 religion)
--> it is not possible to say that Holy is the bane of demon & undead... it is slightly useful against undead, but an undead slaying promotion has much much more effect, and it's main perk is that it is a boost/str (generally 1-2 str, max 4 but always less than 25% str) that cannot be turned back against the Mercurians .
--> as you can see, the effect of "magical damage", resistance to it or weakness to it, only have an effect on the game if one (or better two) of those is verified:
- there is a trace of the damage afterwards : poison / lightning does x2 damage to units with metal
- some unit-type are "immune" to the damage :
- there exists enough units/spells that have high damage value of this damage_type
otherwise it is not worth it.
Even if there are spells/units with the damage_type, there is a use of such damage type only if some units have high enough resistance (immunity), or units have high enough weakness that the difference is noticeable. Thus, resistance & weakness to such damage is only noticeable in game if the resistance is high enough and/or if the weakness is high enough.
(and even for cases where there is a trace or there is high damage spells/high damage units, resistance promotions of 50% resistance should be increased to at least 60%resistance... having resistance to fire or poison is much more specialised than a boost for attacking cities or a promotions for fighting only archers.
I'd propose 60%resistance & magic immune providing again 50% : total 110)
blessed paladin only have 4 holy str... which means that demons, having 25 weakness to holy, only see these 4str as 5 str... which is a negligible weakness : as compared to the 10 combat of paladin & all his other promotions : demon slaying : +40% vs demon : +5.2 (for a blessed paladin); + at least 40% for combat 2 + 5.2. fighting a demon with weakness is 10+8 (40%+40%) mundane + holy: (4+1)+4 or 4+3(80%)+ 1 (25%) or (4+3)*1.25= 8.75 total : between 18+8 and 18+9 = 26-27 depending on calculator. Comparatively, if there was no "holy" damage type the blessed paladin gives 14+11 mundane = 25.
the effect of having 30% of damage type being "Holy" for fighting a unit weak against it is ... between 4 & 8%...which is negligible
even Sphener and higher thier angels only have 4 holy... so 25% weakness vs holy is infact a negligible weakness.
Not that the weakness is negligible, but the source of such damage is negligible.
thus 25% weakness should be increased to 50%... & 50% to 100% !)
I had all the Demonic Pact promotions giving -100% resistance to Holy damage all along. Did I forget to mention that?
I just adjusted the strength of Paladins, Crusaders, Paramanders, Rathas, Devouts, Monks, and Counselors to include more Holy damage.
I don't want to change promotions like you suggested because promotions that subtract strength enough to make base strength negative can cause problems.
I just gave Blessed and Shield of Faith more Unholy Resistance.
I am less certain that +2 affinity is such a problem from my last text game, as many Mages have that much affinity and don't have the added weaknesses.
I think i am leaning towards having Pact promotions possibly kill units like Herald's Call, and also giving the avatar units of each Demon Lord a spell to dominate units that have a pact with them.
I have finished merging lfgr's latest update of MNAI 2.8.1u, but it may take a while to properly balance the adjustments to Miscast rates and to com up with good miscast effects for each spell. Right now most spells are just failing more than is fun.
I have included updates to the pedia including a bunch of Lore that Kael revealed on Reddit last month.
Basium's Maul is now called the Angelorum Cavea instead of the Clava Vindex, and no longer traps mortal souls. It does capture and prevent the resurrection of both Demons and Angels. It also acts like the March promotion to help its bearer heal. (It has the story of Basium and the Boiling Sea as its pedia entry, but that is not showing up in the pedia as it is only showing info on the promotion and not unit. )
I added the Sawol Cavea dagger as a new piece of equipment that traps mortal souls regardless of alignment. (It's pedia has a story Kael shared a while back about Capria's time in hell.)
Units with the Summoner promotion can use the Conjure Captive Soul spell to bring forth a random prisoner of the Sawol Cavea, Angelorum Cavea, or Netherblade while the caster is holding one of those pieces of equipment.
Gosea's pedia entry was changed to include the whole 50+ page story Kael named "Fideism," instead of just a short excerpt from Ashes of Brigdarrow. This is the story about Mikel Alaunus and Gosea's time in the city of Bourne the Gleaming while on her way to deliver the Heartstone to Tebryn Arbandi. It is strongly implied that the Heartstone was used in the creation of the Deadlands, and plainly stated that it was used to Unseal the Well there in order to remove the curse of the deadlands.
The Heartstone is now required to either Seal or Unseal Bradaline's Well.
I added a Mask of the Coven of the Black Candle equipment, which makes the unit Hidden Nationality, Invisible, and immune to Charmed and Death Damage.
I added the Aphelion Amulet equipment and gave it Gibbon's Impersonate Leader spell.
I renamed the Spear of Majosi to "Trenton's Trident" and changed its art from the Gela to the Staff of Souls.
I renamed the Octopus Overlords religion to its canonical name "The Undertow."
I just uploaded my latest version, even though I am getting some unexplained asserts that lfgr thinks might point to memory corruption. I'm hoping that with these files he can help me eliminate any remaining bugs.
As I write this I realize that the uploaded version used the assert DLL by default. You'll have to rename the DLLs if you don't want to see all the asserts, but seeing those might help you help me debug things.
The asserts I was worried about don't seem to be happening anymore. I don't know why, but performing a clean install from the posted installer seems to have fixed things.
Feel free to play to your hearts' content. If you don't want to see any asserts you may swap the DLLs, but the one used by default would help more for bugtesting.
I downloaded your new version of Magister yesterday and still got an asserts warning that stops Civ from working. Could not continue game. Reads as follows:
Expression: strcmp(szType, "NONE")==0 || strcmp(szType, "")==0
Message: info type BUILDINGCLASS_DUNGEON not found, Current XML file is: xml\Events/CIV4EventInfos.xml
Does that mean it crashes when you click "Ignore always"?
Yes, it just locked up and didn't really show the buttons being 'pressed'. I tried each.
Tonight I was more deliberate about it when hitting the Ignore Always button, and I could see it click this time, but the game still crashed. The problem may be when taking over a city - it crashes. Doesn't matter if you keep the city or raze it. The screen freezes, no controls work, but the background music is still there.
Cannot reproduce, I can captuire the Sheaim city without crash. Can you maybe give more exact steps on how to reproduce the crash?
OK. For this first one (turn 248), I've just captured a Sheam city. Try to scroll your map around. On this other one (turn 152), I'll leave it up to you to take the city. This one is a bit weird in that it crashed at different times - once before the end of turn, and once after. The net result is the same, though. Try to scroll around, or make moves. Good luck.
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