[MOD] MagisterModmod

[ArkhanTheBlack]

Sorry, I hope I didn't sound too critical. FFH2 certainly had its confusing moments at the start too, even if FFH2 came with this huge documentation which is certainly not easy to make. And changes like the cool colored research path make some things even a lot more intuitive and easier to follow.

As a suggestion, it would be very helpfull if certain concepts are just included in the race, unit or religion description. For example, the description about how vampirism works could be just copy-pasted into the Calabim race description. The drown requirement could be added to the drown unit description.

Not sure where I got the idea with Calabim world spell needing sorcery. I can only remember that it was not available and when Ljosolfar destroyed me with the march of the trees I was just shouting IMBA! Well I made my share of mistakes, so it was just fair.

Ah, btw, the mod also seems very stable in MP which is very important since I play it mostly cooperatively in MP. We just got an out of sync at the start of the game which seems to happen with almost every FFH2 mod I played so we got kind of used to it.

I'll play the mod next week again with a friend so I might add more feedback after that.

 

[magzhi]

I admit that I haven't been very good about making changelogs, but I think that my civilopedia actually explains things much better than that of Base FfH2 does.

The fact that the Desert Shrines give free promotions is actually pretty well documented in the building's pedia entry and its mouseover:

ohh that is gonna explain my unit, which had ALL promotions granted for free. I had a capital in the middle of dessert with 3 citizens in it. I thought that it was a bug and quit my game soon after because that was completely overpowered. I captured half of the lanun empire with 3 vicars xd

 

[BvBPL]

Question on the Nullstone Citadal: I'm playing an older version, one or two changes out, and I razed my enemy's city where the Nullstone was located. However, it appears that their resistance to spells did not diminish. Rust and Enervate are still grayed out, presumably meaning that my enemies have sufficient magic resistance to resist the spell even of a 3 metamagic arcane archmage.

Three questions:
-was the resistance offered by the Nullstone intended to be removed if the city is captured or razed?
-if so, is (or was) the Nullstone bugged to maintain that resistance?
-is there anyway I can global remove the Nullstone resistance from a current game I'm playing?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

The Nullstone Citadel's ability to block spells doesn't really have anything to do with normal spell resistance. Normal spell resistance does not prevent a spell from being cast, it just prevents a unit from suffering its effects.

The Nullstone Citadel blocks spell casting by means of a spell whose PyRequirement sets the unit as having already cast a spell that turn. (It does not interfere with the ability to cast spells that have <bIgnoreHasCasted>set to 1.)

Destroying the city and thus the Nullstone Citadel would stop the python code from doing anything any more. Any new units to approach that city would not have their casting blocked. It would not however undo its effects on the units it already blocked from casting. There is no way to distinguish between units who were unable to cast because of that wonder and units who were unable to cast because they really had already cast a spell that turn. If I were to make it so that destroying the Nullstone Citadel restored the casting ability of units nearby, then it could restore the ability to those who ought not have it restored too.

		<SpellInfo>
			<Type>SPELL_BLOCKED_BY_NULLSTONE</Type>
			<Description>TXT_KEY_SPELL_BLOCKED_BY_NULLSTONE</Description>
			<Civilopedia>TXT_KEY_SPELL_PLACEHOLDER_PEDIA</Civilopedia>
			<Help>TXT_KEY_SPELL_BLOCKED_BY_NULLSTONE_HELP</Help>
			<bAllowAI>1</bAllowAI>
			<PyRequirement>effectBlockedByNullstone(pCaster)</PyRequirement>
			<bGraphicalOnly>1</bGraphicalOnly>
			<Sound>AS3D_SPELL_TRAIN</Sound>
			<Button>Art/Interface/Buttons/Buildings/Castle.dds</Button>
		</SpellInfo>

def effectBlockedByNullstone(pCaster):
	iNullstone = gc.getInfoTypeForString('BUILDING_NULLSTONE_CITADEL')
	if CyGame().getBuildingClassCreatedCount(gc.getInfoTypeForString('BUILDINGCLASS_NULLSTONE_CITADEL')) > 0:
		pPlot = pCaster.plot()
		pCity = pPlot.getWorkingCity()
		if not pCity.isNone():
			if pCity.getNumBuilding(iNullstone) > 0:
				if pCity.getTeam() != pCaster.getTeam():
					pCaster.setHasCasted(True)
					return False
	return False

The easiest way to remove the feature from the game would be to delete the <PyRequirement>effectBlockedByNullstone(pCaster)</PyRequirement> line in the xml define. You could remove the whole spell, but that might break saved games.

To restore the casting ability to effected units, you'd probably just want to give them Spellstaffs of Potions of Restoration. Those both grant spells that restore the casting ability, although if the units were still too near a Nullstone Citadel then that effect would be immediately undone.

 

[magzhi]

I got the endless turn exactly on turn 219 everytime. Any idea why it keeps happening?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I might be able to tell if you post the logs from that game (note that starting a new game, or even loading a saved game, overwrites the logs).

Edit: I just noticed that the save is from 3 turns before the problem, so that might be long enough for me to find the error in the logs on my computer. I'll see about testing it sometime after dinner.

Edit2: I've made it to turn 221 with no problems, so I'm not sure why you couldn't.

Edit3: I decided to try again, this time just pressing Next Turn rather than making any actual moves. Now I am getting an endless turn. No errors are showing up. It seems like the last thing that happens before the problem is Cassiel moving a Chariot. I would guess that the problem is happening during Cassiel's turn, but I was able to prevent it the first time by conquering Zarlra and eliminating the Sidar before that turn. (That isn't really hard to do, if you move all your fully healed units in Celo north and summon Ice Elementals.)

Edit4: Ok, apparently eliminating the Sidar only delays the problem by a couple turns. Cassiel moving his chariot still seems to be the last tin that happens before the AI gets stuck. I'll see what happens if I delete said Chariot.

Edit5: I deleted the chariots they already had, but it didn't help. It still looked like a Chariot is casing the problem but I think said chariot is actually an upgraded Adventurer. It seems that up upgrades both Llangru (Axeman) and Sidhelle (Adventurer) to chariots just before the problem starts. Sidhelle doesn't even seem to have been born yet until Cassiel's turn, so I can't try deleting him. I'll see if eliminating Llangru is enough.

Edit6: Deleting Llangru prevents any problems until turn 223, but then there is some Grigori chariot related issue again. I believe Sidhelle is the cause that time. Maybe the Hero AI just doesn't work well with chariots?

 

[magzhi]

ok does it mean that i should play without grigori in the next game? ^^

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Has anyone noticed a problem with Nives?

In my latest game , I find that selecting a Nive causes the interface to mess up. I recall them working fine back when I first introduced their unique graphics, although come to think of it I might have only tested them placed using world builder rather than training hem back then.

The version I am playing does include a few changes made after the last release (such as adding a couple of new Mana Flare events and moving the code that turns Manes' xp into culture and production and spreads its religion from def Sluagh to a PythonResult fo the Add to City spell so that the Infernal's don't get this bonus when Manes are merely upgraded n a city), but nothing that I can think of could possibly be related to this bug.

The unit shows up, but the smaller model that normally is shown when the unit is selected does not. More importantly, the units orders (including promotion purchases) do not show up. The standard commands (Delete the unit, Fortify, Skip Turn, Sentry, Go to Mode, Go to Mode (All Units) and Explore) still showed up. So did the Ranged Attack command, even though this unit has no ability to launch ranged attacks and the command itself did nothing. While the Nive is selected, it is impossible to see the other units on the tile to select them. It does not seem possible to select units on other tiles either, although you can still get away from the unit by selecting a city. No mouse-over works until the unit is deselected.


There also seems to be a problem when selecting a city that is training a Nive. You can't give the city any orders, like telling it to build anything else. It is a good thing that there were other this in my queue too, as otherwise it would be impossible to remove the Nive or make the city do anything until it was finished.

Here is what shows up in PythonErr.log:

Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "CvScreensInterface", line 1010, in forceScreenRedraw

  File "CvMainInterface", line 1356, in redraw

  File "CvMainInterface", line 1909, in updatePlotListButtons

  File "CvMainInterface", line 1999, in updatePlotListButtons_Common

RuntimeError: unidentifiable C++ exception
ERR: Python function forceScreenRedraw failed, module CvScreensInterface

----

Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "CvScreensInterface", line 1010, in forceScreenRedraw

  File "CvMainInterface", line 1356, in redraw

  File "CvMainInterface", line 1909, in updatePlotListButtons

  File "CvMainInterface", line 1975, in updatePlotListButtons_Common

RuntimeError: unidentifiable C++ exception
ERR: Python function forceScreenRedraw failed, module CvScreensInterface

The offending lines seem to be these:
screen.addSpecificUnitGraphicGFC( "InterfaceUnitModel", CyInterface().getHeadSelectedUnit(), 165, yResolution - 138, 123, 132, WidgetTypes.WIDGET_UNIT_MODEL, CyInterface().getHeadSelectedUnit().getUnitType(), -1, -20, 30, 1, False )


screen.addUnitGraphicGFC( "InterfaceUnitModel", CyInterface().getOrderNodeData1(i), 175, yResolution - 138, 123, 132, WidgetTypes.WIDGET_HELP_SELECTED, 0, -1, -20, 30, 1, False )

Does anyone have idea what is causing this, or how to fix it?

Edit: Actually, the commands stay as whatever they were when he last unit or city was slelected. Nives (and cities building Nives) can appear to be able to cast all sort of spells is the last unit selected was a caster.

 

[youtien]

Balancing issue:

1. 3 Early religions are all overpowered with the free priest and instant civic-enabling, especially RoK and OO, for you can build Bambur or Savorous right away before turn 100, then wipe out AI in any difficulty (I always play in deity). And benefits from Arete and Tablet of Bambur are too high, another +1 commerce from workshop really buffs. I suggest removing free priests and bring back techs like arete & hidden path.

2. Arcane line overpowered with creation sphere and more mana resources. Creation II & III spell should really be nerfed, the +1 health for all cities on the continent could neutralize any downside from Sacrifice the Weak and plague. And you can easily build Infernal Grimgore without converting to AV. Therefore it's possible to bulb Arcane Lore - Strength of the Will, get an archmage then sweep the board with a rift(dimensional III) and your stack of doom. Also, if you got metamagic III, your djinn can take out any unit with 40+ base strength. Civs starting with adept is a bad idea too, human can max their power.

3. I nearly never go recon line unless I play Sylxxxfar, for hunting costs too much and arcane line overpowered. Archery line is even less favorable, I only build longbowmen once with bowyers popped from hut.

4. Luchuirp Palace + Tablets of Bambur + Guilds of Endeavors = Holy .

5. The most underpowered civs : Bannor & Ljojasfar. Although Bannor has valor, they have no imba perks in early game.

6. Some late-game techs like rage, divine essence, mithril weapons are never discovered or used unless you want them on purpose.

 

[scutarii]

Balancing issue:

1. 3 Early religions are all overpowered with the free priest and instant civic-enabling, especially RoK and OO, for you can build Bambur or Savorous right away before turn 100, then wipe out AI in any difficulty (I always play in deity). And benefits from Arete and Tablet of Bambur are too high, another +1 commerce from workshop really buffs. I suggest removing free priests and bring back techs like arete & hidden path.

2. Arcane line overpowered with creation sphere and more mana resources. Creation II & III spell should really be nerfed, the +1 health for all cities on the continent could neutralize any downside from Sacrifice the Weak and plague. And you can easily build Infernal Grimgore without converting to AV. Therefore it's possible to bulb Arcane Lore - Strength of the Will, get an archmage then sweep the board with a rift(dimensional III) and your stack of doom. Also, if you got metamagic III, your djinn can take out any unit with 40+ base strength. Civs starting with adept is a bad idea too, human can max their power.

3. I nearly never go recon line unless I play Sylxxxfar, for hunting costs too much and arcane line overpowered. Archery line is even less favorable, I only build longbowmen once with bowyers popped from hut.

4. Luchuirp Palace + Tablets of Bambur + Guilds of Endeavors = Holy .

5. The most underpowered civs : Bannor & Ljojasfar. Although Bannor has valor, they have no imba perks in early game.

6. Some late-game techs like rage, divine essence, mithril weapons are never discovered or used unless you want them on purpose.

I agree with everything - no wonder why I'm NOT playing best RoK +civilization or OO civilizations - too OP and boring later as hell ( I have at the late stages only fill my victory conditions, not actually firght for my life.)

At the same time: high priests of winter suck - blizzard is simply weak and demands awful micromanagement.

 

[ArkhanTheBlack]

5. The most underpowered civs : Bannor & Ljojasfar.

You're joking, right?! Ljosolfar wiped out two civs in my last game with their world spell.

 

[Feneris]

Hey, I was wondering just what kind of features were you planning for this modmod? You stated you were trying to keep it as lore friendly as possible. But I was wondering if you were planning on including features like worker improvements, or perhaps the massive magic system seen in Master of Mana

 

[sunbeam]

Balancing issue:

1. 3 Early religions are all overpowered with the free priest and instant civic-enabling, especially RoK and OO, for you can build Bambur or Savorous right away before turn 100, then wipe out AI in any difficulty (I always play in deity). And benefits from Arete and Tablet of Bambur are too high, another +1 commerce from workshop really buffs. I suggest removing free priests and bring back techs like arete & hidden path.

I think the same thing. Right now I usually go for a religion unless another civ is right next to me. I find the Octopus Overlords religion not too useful, it's pretty much the Tower of Complacency, Saverous, and the Tsunami spell. But Runes give you useful bonuses and Bambur >> Saverous anyway.

Only civ I go for Overlords with is the Lanun, because they start with fishing and it is difficult for any other civ to beat them to it. The mana from the Necronomicon is almost useless too, compared to the other Religion's Great Wonders. I guess if you use a lot of Death Mana it's kind of handy, but the water mana is only good for dealing with fires, smoke, and desert tiles.

I've noticed that the AI researches Religions but doesn't seem to adopt them. Varn for example usually seems to get Runes first if he is in the game. If he builds Bambur he will discover the Empyrean but probably won't adopt it.

The Elohim seem to get Runes a lot too. Maybe they are bulbing from great persons, but usually one of those two civs founds Runes of Kilomorph first if they are in the game, in my experience.

I'm not sure exactly why, but it seems like in most of my games at least 50% of the Civs go with Runes of Kilomorph. The Balseraphs on occasion, and Sheaim usually will go Ashen Veil, Jonas too sometimes if he is in the game. What's weird is how much the Sidhar like Runes of Kilomorph.

I can often beat the Ljolsalfar to founding Fellowship of Leaves for some reason though.

Another thing that bugs me about how it works now is not only do you get the holy city, and probably will get to build an early hero if your religion has one, you also get the priest.

If you beeline a religion, usually Orthus arrives around the time you found it, unless you got lucky with huts or great people. If you lose the race you don't have anything to show for your efforts, and you passed on researching a tech you could defend yourself with.

Although sometimes Orthus lurks in the wilderness for a long time until he maxes his hero promotions, then he will show up after you've given up waiting for him, and attack the new cities you've only got a couple of units defending.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I don't really have any new major features planned. Most of the feature in my modmod don't have a whole lot to do with advanced planning anyway though, just things that seemed appropriate t be in the middle of play-testing something else.

There are a couple of things I'm thinking about doing with improvements, but they depend on the new features which Tholal is planning to include in the next version of More Naval AI. I can't really figure out quite how I want to implement them until after merging my modmod with his next release, which I cannot do until he releases it. I don't know when that will happen.

I may also tweak some of the scenarios more. Someone is trying to make a scenario of my modmod where you lead Auric all the way through the Ascension process. I may collaborate with that and include it with the mod once it is ready. Adding more than one new scenario would require Tholal first add more dummy game options, or that I try making my own DLL again.

Currently my main focus is improving the documentation in the 'pedia and various mouse-overs. (I'm also trying to figure out what the problem with the Nive's artwork is. Edit: I just found and fixed the problem. The Nive's art define points to a non-existent Art/Units/Nive/Wolf blood.kfm when it should point to Art/Units/Wolf/Wolf blood.kfm.)

I'm hoping that I'll find a job soon, in which case I probably won't have so much time for modding. It is probably better for me to try to make a more polished "finished" version of the modmod rather than adding anything too ambitious.

----

I don't intend to restore the religion specific techs or stop giving a free priest for being the fit to research a religion founding tech, but I think I will give Saverous, Bambur, Arete, and Guardian of Nature later tech prereqs.


I'm not quite sure what causes most leaders to rush for specific religions, but I suspect that it could have to do with valuing them more based on the units and civics that they provide. Moving the tech prereqs might make leaders more likely to adopt their thematically favored religions.

What techs prereqs would be appropriate? Is Feral Bond too late for Guardian of Nature? What if I also gave it other bonuses, like improved Stability or free promotions for Treants created by civs with that civic? Since Arete means "the good" (as well as being the term for a kind of mountain range), would Phlosophy or Way of the Wise be reasonable prereqs for it? What techs for Saverous? Way of the Wicked? Warfare? Priesthood (as he is a thrall of the Burnt Priest)? For Bambur? Maybe Smelting?


What would you think if I changed the Djinni so that they have a base strength of 4 instead of 1, had 3 affinity for Metamagic Mana instead of 1, but had no affinity for any other type of mana? They would still benefit from the free spell sphere promotions based on other types of mana, so you won't be so encouraged to focus entirely on one mana type as with all the other summons.

I just removed the area free health from Fertility (so it only effects the city where it is cast now), and made Abundance no longer store food when the city grows.

I don't intend to stop the Amurites and Sheaim from starting with an Adept.


The Create Blizzard Spell does not have to be that great, as it is not the only spell for the High Priests of Winter. They can also summon permanent Tar Demons, and they can get Ice I-III if you have enough Ice mana at the time you get them.

 

[sunbeam]

You know a lot more about how this AI works than I do, and the mod in general obviously.

I don't understand how the AI prioritizes techs at all. All of them will research down the metal line, but I've seen civs that I'm not sure ever researched the tech for Rangers even in the late game.

Then again I've seen them have zillions of rangers running around. Usually when I go FoL I have no problem building the heroes, even if I try to do it late. By that time usually the only FoL civs are me and the Ljolsalfar, maybe the Svartalfar. For some reason they are less likely to build them. I kind of make it a point to get Kytha as quickly as possible, after a few basic techs, maybe the AI weighting doesn't go that way.

The AI seems to be a little quicker building Arthendain, but maybe that is because Sanitation is so basic.

I think you want to have Saverous be available a little quicker than Bambur. I can tear the early game up with Bambur, it's a little harder with Saverous.

Smelting makes sense for Bambur, but Priesthood might be a little late for Saverous even if it is Thematic. Maybe you could make it a requirement he be built by an Asylum. (By the way I think he should get the Amphibious promotion for free. I rush build him as soon as I found Octopus Overlords, and usually it takes a long time for a Prophet to appear for the Lanun).

The adepts for the Sheaim and Amurites aren't a big problem to me. The Svartalfar one is a bigger imbalance I think because the scouts set +1 strength from the Sinister attribute, and the adept gives them +1 to that. So you have 4 strength Scouts running around from round 1. I find it easy to steamroll anyone except the Doviello if they start next to me. The Ljolsalfar start without an adept, I'm not sure why the Svarts do.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I don't know a lot about how the AI prioritizes techs myself. I believe that they take into account the things that the tech offers, but I'm not entirely sure. I think that the Flavor values count for a lot. Different technologies have different flavor values for categories like Military, Production, Gold, Growth, Science, Culture, and Religion. (Sanitation and Medicine has a large weighting for Growth, and smaller weightings for Production and Gold. Animal Handling has moderate weightings for Growth and Military.) Different leaders have different weights towards different flavor types. (Charadon is weighted heavily towards Military and has a negative weight towards Science.)

I wonder if it might be a good idea to made new flavor types based on civilization, alignment, and religion. I don't know if it is possible to change a leader's flavor weights in the middle of the game though, so Tebryn Arbandi might still be weighted toward evil, Ashen Veil associated technologies even after converting to The Order and turning good.

Maybe I should bring up that Idea to Tholal. He knows a lot more about how the AI works than I do.



Making an Asylum be a prerequisite for Saverous actually fits his back story very well. I think I'll do that.

Would he need a higher tech prereq too, for games when the AI is allowed to ignore building prerequisites?

Saverous really isn't associated with the water very much, so I don't think I'll give him Ampbhibious. Since he is a Doviello, I'll give him Winterborn.

I'd considering giving him Mutated, which could grant Amphibious, but possible other results like Rebellious and Enraged wouldn't be so good for a hero.


I think I gave the Svartafar a starting adept because Faeryl is arcane and the dark elves are better known for magic. Having both poisoned blades and inspiration that early is probably a bit much though. I just realized that the most arcane of civilizations, the Amurites and Sheaim, actually don't get nearly as much of an advantage as the other civilizations that start with adepts since their mana types do not provide free buildings like Inspiration or Muse. I removed the free starting Adept from the Malakim, Kuriotates, and Svartalfar. (I just recalled that I had formerly given a free starting adept to the Luchuirp, who are probably at least as magical as the Svartalfar and certainly more so that the Malakim, but took it away because early access to Muse and Wall of Stone were too much.)

 

[sunbeam]

Those are excellent points. The only things I know about Saverous come from the story that is floating around out there about him and Valin.

But in that story he doesn't seem to have much to do with the Lanun, and 90% of the time he will be with the Lanun civilization in game. I'm not sure what civ the Priest was with in the story, but is seemed like Saverous became part of a farming Bannor community inland.

As regards the tech priorities of the civs, I just don't know. I can say that the Khazad build more life nodes than any other civ. I guess because it helps them more than any other type. If they value money, it would seem like they would build more earth nodes, maybe make sure they have one mind node to build the Bazaar.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

The pedia makes it quite clear that Saverous was a Doviello warrior before the Burnt Priest captured him. He locked him in an asylum and conducted experiment on him that broke his mind but left his body strong enough that he made an ideal host for a demon under the Burnt Priest's control. It is not clear from what civilization the Burnt Priest came, but Saverous joined the Bannor only cause that is where Valid led him years after the Burt Priest had died. His time as the OO hero would be before that.


Everyone seems to build too many life nodes in my experience. It is quite common for there to be more life mana than anything else combined. Even the Infernals did so before I removed the ability to build life nodes from Imps. The weight towards that could have to do with its health benefits as well with it being a prerequisite for both Aquae Sucellus and the Mercurian Gate. Perhaps the AI also values Life III more since it started granting immortality and thus places more emphasis on its prereq.

 

[Conqistador]

I can't really contribute to the discussion on religious hero balance, but I do have a small thing regarding the Illians and Barnaxus. During my current game, I managed to capture Barnaxus from the Luchuirp and rebuild him, but I got 2 Barnaxus units when I used the "Rebuild Barnaxus" ability. I did it with Auric in Garduk with New Mulyr built but I can't see how that specific scenario would affect this.

Edit: - Regarding Saverous, Winterborn makes perfect sense for him as an ex-Doviello, and Mutated is just one click away with a Cultist in the same stack as Sav. Amphibious should be fairly easy too if you get the shrine.

For the Lanun its especially easy. Build your capital near a sea resource with room for at least 2 pirate ports, build work boat x2 for the ports, warriors as needed then Heron Throne. Then more work boats for any sea resources. Rush the OO tech, build a Pagan Temple at Mysticism and change to Pacifism. You'll have a guaranteed prophet within 25 turns of the temple being finished as long as you save other specialist buildings until after the prophet is born.

 

[Feneris]

I'm kinda curious if you have anything planned to maybe balance up the Ljosalfar with the other civilizations? (They always seem rather neglected when it comes to lore.)