Double Barrel said:
Rambuchan, as I've already stated, there is a clear difference between Muslims and Jihadists.
I am not generalizing anything. If we can reach those extremist Muslims that desire a peaceful coexistence with the West, then fine, your plan of action might work.
However, your idealism is blinding you to the cold hard reality that there are Jihadist elements of the extreme fundamentalist Muslim populations that will never compromise with the West.
They desire ends that cannot be accomplished without the full and complete destruction of our way of life, including the elimination of Israel, homosexuals, women's rights, and a host of other societal structures that they have deemed an affront to their version of Allah.
What I am asking you, without all the unrealistic ideals of what you would want to achieve in a perfect world, is what do you propose we do with the tens of thousands of Jihadists that have sworn their lives towards the destruction of the West?
I don't need words of a delusional optimist, as we can all hope for peppermints and buttercups. For an education, I want to see your idea(s) of the methods of dealing with an extremely violent group of religious fundies that cannot be tamed with negotiation.
For Rambuchan too. I couldn't figure out how to quote two messages.
The other night I visited with a couple of former Iraqi soldiers (During Gulf War I) who had some interesting observations on this war. They made the comment that Islam is to the Arab World what Christianity was to Europe in the Middle Ages. It is superstitious and deeply suspicious of any change. Their leaders, much like the church leaders of the middle ages, tend to control information flow, or spin it, in order to remain in power. To that end, he further stated that there was no real way to win over those loyal to extremism without causing them to totally change their belief system. His hope, and to some extent mine as well, is that with modern media, television, internet, etc., that the long process which brought the church out of the dark ages can be expedited for Islam.
Another interesting observation he made, and one I noticed while in Iraq, was that Arabs have lived in a world of such extremes for so many thousands of years that they seem to have a hard time analyzing things in the gray if you will. It is simply that they think in black or white. This is why some Arab leaders were so graphicly verbose in their condemnation of the attacks on London. They can't just say "This was a horrible thing". It isn't in them. This may also explain their need to hate. They have to have an enemy.
As a result of this way of thinking for the Arabs, the terrorists, extremists, whatever you want to call them will stay that way until the day they die. Fortunatly, we have the ability and the will to expedite that proccess. With any luck, we will somehow manage to win over more than we lose each time we fight and ultimatly end the war that way.
Another observation, I think that it would be good for everyone to really think through their positions and ask themselves if their ideas are practical, ideal, or both. I am not saying I have the answers and everyone else is wrong, but I did spend some serious time with Arabs on both sides of the fence while I was in Iraq. It is nearly impossible to apply the "Western" way of thinking to theirs and while things may have worked to deal with the IRA, Red Brigade, and other mostly European organizations, they won't work for the Arabs.
