Make The AI Great at Conquering Again

[Noble Zarkon]

Civ 4 BTS had a decent AI and that was 20 years ago!

It only seemed decent as the game was simple from an AI perspective, I maintain 1UPT is the single biggest change the franchise has ever seen and the AI still can't cope with it.

 

[protocol7]

There’s something to be said for designing the game such that the AI can play it.

 

[stealth_nsk]

There’s something to be said for designing the game such that the AI can play it.

Unfortunately this correlates a lot with the game being interesting. AI is really bad at handling complex logic over large maps, while human brain is extremely effective at managing terrains (and that's why we love such games). Going from 8x8 chess board to 19x19 go board made a difference of 18 years in AI development (AI beaten chess world champion in 1997, but for go it was only 2015). Managing even small map in civ the way AI manages those games is way above modern supercomputers, not to mention home device.

The only reason why Civ4 AI looked good is because the game lacked tactical component of Civ5+ and huge AI bonuses were outside of player view. The second part is true for Civ5 Vox Populi as well - it takes a lot of effort for AI to appear competent, but the real challenge it provides comes from the amount of bonuses even bigger than the original, just going behind the scenes.

 

[protocol7]

I personally didn’t find civ4 so lacking in any thought or being uninteresting to play. I also don’t mind bonuses if it makes for a fun, interesting game where the opponents appear competent and are able to conquer each other. I understand others may feel differently.

 

[m_mus]

What about now, after the latest patch ?

I've seen it mentioned multiple times, that the AI has been improved to quite an extent. Not only have the usual youtubers talked about it in their most recent uploads (or even dedicated sole videos demonstrating the fact), but the most prominent AI-modder for Civ7 has called the update for the AI wihtin 1.2 the single greatest AI-improvement via a patch in the franchise's history, if I am not mistaken. Not sure whether external links are allowed, but you can find the respective thread on reddit here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/civ/comments/1k67hao/patch_120_is_a_significant_improvement_in_the_ai

 

[stealth_nsk]

I personally didn’t find civ4 so lacking in any thought or being uninteresting to play. I also don’t mind bonuses if it makes for a fun, interesting game where the opponents appear competent and are able to conquer each other. I understand others may feel differently.

Well, I'm peaceful player, focused on building my civ and to me Civ4 is quite ok too. But I have to say, Civ7 looks more interesting in how you manage settlements so far with all the districts, adjacencies, specialists, town specializations and the like. In this area Civ4 is more about micromanagement, while Civ7 is more about planning. And, of course, when it comes to war, Civ7 seems the best any civ game could offer.

 

[protocol7]

I’m not sure those are objective facts as I would tend to disagree but I appreciate hearing your opinion.

 

[stealth_nsk]

I’m not sure those are objective facts as I would tend to disagree but I appreciate hearing your opinion.

Yes, those are pure subjective things, sure

 

[Lazy sweeper]

Unfortunately this correlates a lot with the game being interesting. AI is really bad at handling complex logic over large maps, while human brain is extremely effective at managing terrains (and that's why we love such games). Going from 8x8 chess board to 19x19 go board made a difference of 18 years in AI development (AI beaten chess world champion in 1997, but for go it was only 2015). Managing even small map in civ the way AI manages those games is way above modern supercomputers, not to mention home device.

The only reason why Civ4 AI looked good is because the game lacked tactical component of Civ5+ and huge AI bonuses were outside of player view. The second part is true for Civ5 Vox Populi as well - it takes a lot of effort for AI to appear competent, but the real challenge it provides comes from the amount of bonuses even bigger than the original, just going behind the scenes.

I frankly do not understand the state of AI in modern CPU-GPU integration.
I'm talking about the technology. The frame-gen and all other goodies Nvidia whispers around... and AMD too...
There must be something more to it and I have no idea what exactly this new gen AI is capable of or if there is
enough people that can actually make a good use of it...

I simply refuse to admit that 20 years later this gen AI is incapable of playing an Inter-dimensional Alpha-zero-civilization...
And there should be a way to better use this potential than just interpolating a few frames here and there...

I also find unjustified the rage against the infra-frame AI gen in ALL games... in turn based games? It should be a messiah...
Civ has never been about FPS... I feel we are missing something here.... sorry for the rant...

I also have a potato GPU, so I'd better stay quiet on the argument... I have an M2 mac that's it... other than that I'm on Polaris on my Linux machine...
My only and last Nvidia a 1Gb Fermi 460Gtx... ( which do an incredible job with Civ IV...)

 

[Foufa131]

The YouTubers say that the AI is now good at beating the human player, but all I want to know is if it's good at beating other AI? Why is there no AI-only videos yet on YouTube, for example?

 

[evonannoredars]

The YouTubers say that the AI is now good at beating the human player, but all I want to know is if it's good at beating other AI? Why is there no AI-only videos yet on YouTube, for example?

I'm not aware of any mods or dev tools that allow people to make AI-only videos yet