Making the Game More Fun, or Cheating?

[Keirador]

I had never played a multi-player game until recently, because only recently did I have a fast internet connection. Now I play on Emperor, and usually win. I know this is not an incredibly unusual level of skill to attain, and I wasn't expecting to win against human players my first time. But I was utterly crushed even before the birth of Christ, and even before I was invaded, I was doing worse than all but one or two of my opponents.

When pondering why I was defeated so easily, it occured to me that I give myself a major advantage. I refuse to start a new game unless my capital city is on a freshwater source and near a food bonus, and I usually try to start near a luxury as well. Geography can matter even more than trait selection, so by doing this am I cheating terribly? Or is this fairly common practice?

 

[Tomoyo]

It is fairly common practice on the higher levels, as well as impossible variants. Anyway, it's your game and you play in the way you want.

 

[Flintlock]

Yes, I do start over alot, especially when I really want to win (ex. it's my first game on a higher difficulty level. etc). I do think that I restart wayyy too much. Ironically, however, I won my first game on Monarch earlier today, and the start was less than perfect, infact I didn't even want to start the game (long story).
Another bad habit I have is reloading whenever one of my espionage missions fails...

 

[wilbill]

Certainly it's up to you. But as you discovered, it's a good idea to play some bad starting locations occasionally just to learn how to do it.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

I will aim to start in a historical position relevant to the civ. I know it is a bit weird but my Inca's must be near the middle and my Germans must be near the top.

 

[Zild]

Like all fun activities, what you do in your own home is entirely up to you...

I think that making sure you start near fresh-water every game is a bit extreme, and it will effect how well you play against other people (I see fresh water as something any city should consider itself very lucky to have, even though I myself love big cities).

I only tend to restart if there's more than three tiles of jungle, tundra or mountains nearby (if they contain resources, they're okay, of course), although with my typical map settings, mountains are quite rare, and tundra moreso.

But what you do in multiplayer is definitely not up to you - I think you've got to take the hand you are dealt, and live (or die) with it...

For example, I just spent a fair while getting together a group of players for a PBEM game. When I started, I was surrounded by jungle - lots of jungle. As adinistrator, I could have restarted the game without anybody knowing, but clearly that's not fair (if I lose the bad starting position, somebody else is likely to gain one...)

So yes, at the very least it's wise not to do it all the time in single player games, if only to make sure you have some idea what to do in the multiplayer games, if you play them...

 

[Turner]

Anyway, it's your game and you play in the way you want.

'Nuff said.

Do what you want when you're playing SP. Now, getting into MP and doing this kinda of thing probably is cheating. Especially if you set yourself up in a good position, and/or your human opponet in a bad one. Unless it's agreed upon ahead of time.

 

[Longasc]

I need the best starting location I can get and will start over until I am satisfied.

I am having lots of trouble on Demigod, my wars ranging far into the modern era, in my last game I even used Stealth Bombers!

I probably could give up right from the start with a very bad starting location, even a mediocre would be difficult.

Of course this is cheating, but I can only agree with Tomoyo. Some difficulty levels are too tough initially if you do not get a decent starting position.


I am not cheating a human. I am cheating the AI, and as long as I do not feel guilty, I will do.

 

[Keirador]

FreeTheSlaves: I don't demand my starting locations to be totally historically accurate, but it pleases me greatly when my Celts start in northern grassland, my Aztecs in tropical plains and desert, and so on. I thought I was the only one.

Zild: Maybe it is a bit extreme to demand freshwater access, but in my opinion EVERY or at least most starting locations should be near freshwater. Look at history- one is hard pressed to name one capital or great city that did NOT grow near freshwater to every ten that did. London? The Thames. Paris? The Sienne. Washington, D.C.? The Potomac. Tenochtitlan? Lake Texcoco. Rome? The Tiber. Seoul? The Han. Beijing? The Yangtze. New York City? The Hudson. Babylon? The Euphrates. Berlin? The Spree. Delhi? The Ganges. I could keep doing this all day.

 

[sourboy]

I don't care for the way C3C sets up maps and all, so I tend to make my own. I purposely make all locations equal. I don't make any location 'perfect' or even good, but fair. I like the challenge, but I also want to be successful.

In a multi-player game, all is fair. I play it out regardless of how it appears.

In a random game, I won't keep reloading until I'm on a freewater source & with wheat/cattle around me, but I won't hesitate to reload if I'm in the middle of a desert.

Your game is what you make of it. Play it the way you want.

 

[Colonel]

I don't think it is cheating but I rarely do it anyways. I prefer to challenge myself to see how good I am. I prefer staring in a positon where my capital will end up being horrible but I like it when there is some open good space near me.

 

[zeon252]

I've had many positions where I have jungle/desert/tundra surrounding me. I ussually try to expand quickly to compensate.

 

[citizen001]

You can only restart on higher levels otherwise it's cheating.

 

[thetrooper]

*I won't hesitate to restart if I don't like the look of my start.*

Cheating - compared to what? I play to enjoy myself
As long as I keep the game for myself, I can do whatever I want!
BUT: I don´t like to manipulate the seed.

 

[Scuffer]

I'd say 'You can only restart at levels at levels you can't usually beat, otherwise it's cheating'. It's not much of a challenge otherwise.

 

[Dragonsbain]

I always try every location, more often than not dificult starting locations end up giving more interesting games. even if I end up losing.

 

[Keirador]

sourboy: i consider it an incredibly unfair advantage to make my own maps, because i know the topography around me, which gives a much more decisive advantage than starting near freshwater. After all, knowing early topography is so important they made a trait specially geared toward early exploration.

Besides, you can't see the palace in modded maps. I hate that.

 

[LulThyme]

n/t sorry yeah

 

[WackenOpenAir]

If you play deity, you must have a pretty reasonable start. When trying Sid, you better only play with a close to perfect start.
Playing a crappy start at these difficulties is simply a waste of time because there is no chance to win it. (with possibly the exception of UN, but i only play for conquest/domination)

 

[Zild]

sourboy: i consider it an incredibly unfair advantage to make my own maps, because i know the topography around me, which gives a much more decisive advantage than starting near freshwater. After all, knowing early topography is so important they made a trait specially geared toward early exploration.

I agree with you on this, but the map settings I like have a horrible habit of giving no oil (no oil anywhere!)

People advise me to make my own map, but I too do not want to see it before I've legitimately explored it, just as there are some maps that I would love to replay, but consider it unfair since I already know the layout...

I've been thinking of setting up a "map-exchange" - also you might call it a "map library" (first thing is to see if there's not one already - I would be surprised if there isn't.) Here, players who have made maps for whatever reason can place the maps for download for other players, with information such as basic stats and an initial screenshot. Further information (anything you would not know if you'd just set up a map, such as enemy locations or locations of strategic resources) would not be allowed in the basic description, although a second description would allow any information the maker permits - it's merely kept in a location where people don't see it unless they want to.

Not only would this solve my recurring "no oil" conundrum, it would also allow players to look at the screenshots and think "yes, that's good" or "no, that's bad", rather than having to restart a few times.

It could also be extended so that players could request maps if they aren't available, perhaps forming partnerships. For example, say you wanted to build a utopia which had city-radius access to all strategic resources (for people who want to see a civ last 6000 years with a single city!) you could request somebody to make this (along with any preferences over size, age, land mass, etc). Then somebody can post such a map in the library permanently for everybody to use. The requesting player now has access to a map which has the requirements they were after, without having to (1) make a new map themself every game, and (2) knowing the lay of the land before they should do.

I would also recommend a few admins to monitor the new maps, to ensure that they don't have any flaws (intentional or otherwise), such as a certain resource not being present - unluss of course that was the intention of the map, and this is shown clearly in the main descrption!

What do people think about this idea? (I may start this as a new thread, if there is much interest...)