Malakim+ Brainstorming

[to_xp]Gekko

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With the Upcoming Grigori+ module, I feel like the only civ being left boring and uninteresting is the Malakim. they are supposed to be traders and desert dwellers, but right now they have no special reason not so spring deserts and they are not especially good traders at all. RifE has lots of great stuff for them that could be used here, but in this thread I'm trying to come up with ideas not taken right out of it ( well, most of these are heavily inspired from it, yeah. I'm just not reading the list right now and quoting directly :lol: ). so:

1) let their adepts create an oasis on a desert tile that has desert on the 8 tiles surrounding it. also let them build improvements on oases.

2) give them a special "beduin sit" improvement that can be built on a desert tile if there's no beduin sit in the 8 surrounding tiles. improvement starts at 1F 1C, but grows into a great improvement that gives mostly commerce plus some food and hammers as well ( more food than hammers I'd say )

3) let their workers plant scrubs on a desert tile if there's nop scrub in the 8 surrounding tiles, for a little bit of extra production.

4) have their workers build trails instead of regular roads. no bonus commerce from it as having to build trails everywhere is boring, but having enemy raider civs get no benefit out of Malakim roads seems great, invading a Malakim desert should be a nightmare. even better if they would build trails on desert and normal roads on other terrain, giving them yet another good reason to keep deserts around. imho they should favour deserts to a degree similar to how Illians favour snow over other terrains, except it should be based less on yields ( aside from the awesome floodplains of course ) and more on tactical and unique advantages. so grassland still great of course, but desert a tad bit better.

5) give them a special Assassin UU available at poisons. weaker than other civs' assassins, but starts with blitz. also give all their recon units desert stealth, i.e. they become invisible on deserts ( could also be made in a fashion similar to how illian assassins become invisible on snow, i.e. with a spell ) , and +1 aptitude to Spices resource ( +2 for hashisinz, their assassin UU . spice aptitude gives poison type damage ) . even better would be: all their recon units have a "desert fadeout" spell with which they become invisible on desert, but they lose the ability after combat and have to wait a turn to be able to cast again. Hashishinz otoh would always be invisible on deserts, before and after combat.

6) give them a unique building ( "Bazaar" ? ) available at trade ( or currency ) that gives a 25% boost to gold, bonus health from salt and bonus happy from tea, extra trade routes and trade route yields, and gives a great boost if you're using Foreign Trade to encourage use of that civic for them. I guess they would get Food, Hammers and Commerce from trade routes in cities with the building if running Foreign Trade. this will encourage to make friends, open borders and use trade routes.

7) add a "camel" resource to deserts, needed for camel archers. if RifE already has camel art for their whole mounted line, use that so they have no need for horses at all any more ( could use them as a food resource, same would be done for camels for all others civs )

8) spinoff from 7), please PLEASE add in Boars from Flavourmod and have Dwarven Boar riders use them instead of Bison. it's just absurd right now, those 2 animals have absolutely nothing in common aside from being furry mammals that taste great :lol:
the flavour python file in WM would need a little tweak btw, to replace Khazad flavour for pigs with Boar, and also a slight flavour for Bison could be added to Doviello, and obviously Camel for Malakim. also, it'd be good to add Moose/Reindeer from Flavourmod as well, to make it clump in tundra/ice regions and provide a little bit of much needed food for Doviellos or other unlucky starters there. Hunting is awfully expensive at the critical stage of the early game, and the +2 food unimproved moose give is a godsend. this way normal Deer can pop up here and there around forests on the map and be used for Fyrdwell, while Moose clumps in cold regions. Flavourwise, Ljolsafar could get a slight flavour for Deer and Doviello a slight flavour for Moose.

9) another spinoff: now that patch K is incoming with nice disciple of Acherons, could it be time to turn Acheron and maybe even Orthus into a random event instead of having them appear in each and every game? I feel that this predictability greatly decreases the fun they add to the game, especially the dragon which makes one given barb city of limits from the start to the end of the game. it doesn't seem like a particularly hard or time consuming change, and to compensate other big baddies like Leviathan, Mary Morbius, Sailor's Dirge, the Great Apes could get the same chance as those more reknown 2 to appear, so that people finally get a chance to see them ingame and get a kick out of it :D
 
There's a Warlords mod called "Ancient Arabia" (or something like that) It might be worth downloading and seeing if there are any ideas or resources for the Malakim.
 
[to_xp]Gekko;8822516 said:
With the Upcoming Grigori+ module, I feel like the only civ being left boring and uninteresting is the Malakim. they are supposed to be traders and desert dwellers, but right now they have no special reason not so spring deserts and they are not especially good traders at all. RifE has lots of great stuff for them that could be used here, but in this thread I'm trying to come up with ideas not taken right out of it ( well, most of these are heavily inspired from it, yeah. I'm just not reading the list right now and quoting directly :lol: ). so:

1) let their adepts create an oasis on a desert tile that has desert on the 8 tiles surrounding it. also let them build improvements on oases.

2) give them a special "beduin sit" improvement that can be built on a desert tile if there's no beduin sit in the 8 surrounding tiles. improvement starts at 1F 1C, but grows into a great improvement that gives mostly commerce plus some food and hammers as well ( more food than hammers I'd say )

3) let their workers plant scrubs on a desert tile if there's nop scrub in the 8 surrounding tiles, for a little bit of extra production.

4) have their workers build trails instead of regular roads. no bonus commerce from it as having to build trails everywhere is boring, but having enemy raider civs get no benefit out of Malakim roads seems great, invading a Malakim desert should be a nightmare. even better if they would build trails on desert and normal roads on other terrain, giving them yet another good reason to keep deserts around. imho they should favour deserts to a degree similar to how Illians favour snow over other terrains, except it should be based less on yields ( aside from the awesome floodplains of course ) and more on tactical and unique advantages. so grassland still great of course, but desert a tad bit better.

5) give them a special Assassin UU available at poisons. weaker than other civs' assassins, but starts with blitz. also give all their recon units desert stealth, i.e. they become invisible on deserts ( could also be made in a fashion similar to how illian assassins become invisible on snow, i.e. with a spell ) , and +1 aptitude to Spices resource ( +2 for hashisinz, their assassin UU . spice aptitude gives poison type damage ) . even better would be: all their recon units have a "desert fadeout" spell with which they become invisible on desert, but they lose the ability after combat and have to wait a turn to be able to cast again. Hashishinz otoh would always be invisible on deserts, before and after combat.

6) give them a unique building ( "Bazaar" ? ) available at trade ( or currency ) that gives a 25% boost to gold, bonus health from salt and bonus happy from tea, extra trade routes and trade route yields, and gives a great boost if you're using Foreign Trade to encourage use of that civic for them. I guess they would get Food, Hammers and Commerce from trade routes in cities with the building if running Foreign Trade. this will encourage to make friends, open borders and use trade routes.

7) add a "camel" resource to deserts, needed for camel archers. if RifE already has camel art for their whole mounted line, use that so they have no need for horses at all any more ( could use them as a food resource, same would be done for camels for all others civs )

8) spinoff from 7), please PLEASE add in Boars from Flavourmod and have Dwarven Boar riders use them instead of Bison. it's just absurd right now, those 2 animals have absolutely nothing in common aside from being furry mammals that taste great :lol:
the flavour python file in WM would need a little tweak btw, to replace Khazad flavour for pigs with Boar, and also a slight flavour for Bison could be added to Doviello, and obviously Camel for Malakim. also, it'd be good to add Moose/Reindeer from Flavourmod as well, to make it clump in tundra/ice regions and provide a little bit of much needed food for Doviellos or other unlucky starters there. Hunting is awfully expensive at the critical stage of the early game, and the +2 food unimproved moose give is a godsend. this way normal Deer can pop up here and there around forests on the map and be used for Fyrdwell, while Moose clumps in cold regions. Flavourwise, Ljolsafar could get a slight flavour for Deer and Doviello a slight flavour for Moose.

9) another spinoff: now that patch K is incoming with nice disciple of Acherons, could it be time to turn Acheron and maybe even Orthus into a random event instead of having them appear in each and every game? I feel that this predictability greatly decreases the fun they add to the game, especially the dragon which makes one given barb city of limits from the start to the end of the game. it doesn't seem like a particularly hard or time consuming change, and to compensate other big baddies like Leviathan, Mary Morbius, Sailor's Dirge, the Great Apes could get the same chance as those more reknown 2 to appear, so that people finally get a chance to see them ingame and get a kick out of it :D

Hehe, I do believe that some of those sound rather familiar.... :p

I'd keep the Oasis requiring no other Oasis within a certain radius, otherwise it's far too strong... In RifE, they get one per city. I also don't give them many hammers... They get a decent amount of food if they work for it, loads of commerce, but not many hammers. Main drawback. ;)

Would you believe I'm removing trails? Though what you say about only building them in desert would be interesting.... And easily possible now that I've added the ability for promotions to affect buildorders. Hmm.

Some of the Camel cavalry looks a bit odd, too, but it works. And was made specifically for Malakim+. :lol:

There's a Warlords mod called "Ancient Arabia" (or something like that) It might be worth downloading and seeing if there are any ideas or resources for the Malakim.

I remember that one.... Downloaded it to look through it. Don't even have a camel resource.... :cry: You have no idea how long I searched for a working copy of that. Ended up finding a guy working on a large Earth map who had the resource, and bugged him till he pm'ed it to me. :lol:
 
1-3: the big question are balanced tile yields
4: this one is easy. Malakim won't need any roads (like in Dunewars)
5: desertstealth for recon sounds good. What about other unitcombats?
6: I think a Desert Economy Civic for Malakim would be better UB Bazaar sounds fine
7: camel as a Malakim only Resource sounds good, thanks to Valkrionn all the art already gathered. But what makes Camel Archers different to horse archers? Maybe less movement and higher withdraw % ?
8: don't think the current tga file for symbols supports boars
 
I don't like Civ-specific resources. Maybe if other civs got Camel Archers also and/or Camel Warriors, with Malakims getting better ones.

Maybe give the Malakim Camel Chieftains? (Knight UU) AoW2 art should cover that.
 
1-3: the big question are balanced tile yields
4: this one is easy. Malakim won't need any roads (like in Dunewars)
5: desertstealth for recon sounds good. What about other unitcombats?
6: I think a Desert Economy Civic for Malakim would be better UB Bazaar sounds fine
7: camel as a Malakim only Resource sounds good, thanks to Valkrionn all the art already gathered. But what makes Camel Archers different to horse archers? Maybe less movement and higher withdraw % ?
8: don't think the current tga file for symbols supports boars

How do you make them not require roads? I've never even considered that, but it's a perfect idea. :eek:

Assuming he's talking about the Dervish shadow UU (And you know he is. :p) it gains invisibility only in desert. Meant to be a 'defensive' assassin. Thinking of making it either target assassins first in the stack, or give it a combat boost vs the Marksman promotion.

Why a civic? I prefer traits over unique civics. :lol: Gave them the 'Merchant' trait... Increased gold, gain food from trade routes, and so on.

I'd make Camels visible to all, have them as some small production for non-Malakim civs. Camels were made visible a little while back in RifE. ;)

I don't like Civ-specific resources. Maybe if other civs got Camel Archers also and/or Camel Warriors, with Malakims getting better ones.

Maybe give the Malakim Camel Chieftains? (Knight UU) AoW2 art should cover that.

I've never seen that art? Can you link to it?
 
But what makes Camel Archers different to horse archers? Maybe less movement and higher withdraw % ?

camels have frightened horses, historically speaking. So camel archer bonus vs mounted units is logical. But they are more expensive...try to nurture somebody in desert....
 
It might be possible to give them a technology that lets them have their deserts connect resources the way coasts and oceans do, but I vaguely remember having trouble a long time ago when I tried to add such a DOMAIN_LAND type of terrain.



What would you think of emphasizing the Desert-Fathers-like ascetic aspects of the civ by making the Desert Shrine give xp based on the number of Desert tiles near the city? Cities completely surrounded by (non-flood plain) deserts would produce the most powerful priests, but there wouldn't be many of them as the production sucks and can't be improved without weakening them.
 
I don't now that Camels so much frighten horses as disgust them. They find the odor of Camels extremely offensive.
 
I'd suggest a Camel Stable building to build Camels then?

I'd also suggest a low-level Camel Rider unit avaliable at Horseback riding.

Stats Str:3 +50% in desert, +40% vs mounted
 
Better bonuses from scub, perhaps extra food. Deserts could also add healthiness to a Malakim city similar to a forest. That would certainly help out floodplain cities which are about the only way you can have a city survive in a complete desert environment.

On the idea of creating an oasis, what's to stop the Malakim player from springing away the desert once they have them?
 
In my version, spring has a prereq which checks for an oasis within the immediate 1-tile range. If it's there, you can't spring. Think it's malakim only, can't remember.

Edit: Also, you may want to go ahead and merge the civyields work from FlavourMod... That way you can make floodplains give less unhealth to the Malakim. ;)
 
Here's a really weird idea if anyone wants it. I had this partly coded in python (along with my Elohim mod for Orbis...which was too radical for most) but never finished it.

Nomadic Settlements. At any point in the game, a Malakim city can pick up, becoming a sort of super settler, and move somewhere else. When they resettle, the new city has the same name, same accumulated culture, and same buildings and wonders as the originally city. Game play effect is that it really changes the short-term/long-term benefit analysis for city placement. New nomadic "tribes" can establish themselves close-in next to some nice oasis...then move out to dominate some ideal region or strategic point. (For "realism" perhaps some improvements would be made unavailable, like walls, or some wonders might make city movement impossible.)

Please disregard if this is too weird for you. I tend to like changes that really upset the normal gameplay (divine civs in FFH, or Scions in the ModMods).
 
If you want to upload that code, I'd be happy to use it... Just not for the Malakim. A certain naval civ could use it easily.... :mischief:

Edit: Though I think GreyFox had something like this working in the dll in one of his mods, in which case I'd use that.... Not sure though. Know he had a city that could 'pack up' at the least. ;)
 
Pazyrik's idea sounds incredibly good. not sure if it's more appropriate for the Malakim or the Doviello, but it's awesome. probably Malakim I'd say. would give em something really unique.
 
Code has been lost, sorry (I do have my old Elohim stuff if anyone interested). Main problem in python was remembering city info between turns or after re-load. Since I only do python, I was going to change it to a ranged spell effect (so new city duplicated at some range from old). My preference from flavor standpoint however was to wrap up the city in a settler, which probably requires dll (an alternative is to add promotion for every building, but that's insane). I'd guess that the AI could handle this to some extent -- the packing up would be forced but then it could settle the super settler using existing AI. (My thought for Doviello was no cities, but that's a hard one to figure out.)
 
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