Malakim+ Brainstorming

[Valkrionn]

Yeah, I haven't personally tested it just yet and now have conflicting reports from testers... Will need to do a lot of WorldBuilder testing to be sure.

 

[Sephi]

you should allways test it first as you know more about the mod than any of our testers The game is very complex, so you can expect some false reports. Remember the "why can't I cast any spells"

 

[Valkrionn]

Yes, it's not like I actually packaged it as an installer without testing; I loaded the game up, made sure I could harvest a resource without a road, and concluded it worked. The testers get it from the SVN is all.

 

[Sephi]

What I mean is that is you get a report "X is not working" you should test that first to make sure it works/works not in Rife My guess is that this is the old "resource is visible already but don't have the tech to connect it yet" issue.

 

[Valkrionn]

Yeah, understood. Would have been doing it already, were I not in the process of hand merging all of Vermicious's changes... Files won't merge, as he didn't switch to the reorganized files.

Figured if there WAS an issue, you'd be getting it too.

And yes, that's exactly what I think it is, and that was the first thing I asked him.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

one thing the Malakim really need now, since they'll be wanting to build cities with lots of floodplains, is to have less unhealthy from floodplains. right now they are in chronic unhealth

they also need a nerf to how much food they can get imho, because right now they're very very powerful.

 

[MiKa523]

Wait, wait,.. you complain about lack of health and too much food in one post?
Seriously?


BTW, is it a feature that roads disappear on desert and this basicly cripples the malakim movement in the mid/late game?
I wouldn't mind it much, if you couldn't counter this with some insane micromanagement and a lot of workers.

 

[Sephi]

I will block roadbuilding for Malakim in desert. Need to test first if it causes issues with the worker AI though.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

Wait, wait,.. you complain about lack of health and too much food in one post?
Seriously?

I know it sounds weird, but if you still have enough food even with 7 unhealthy in a pop 10 city, it means you have too much food at your disposal. their score is also always veeery high due to high population and techrate, but more disturbing is that on Emperor I'm having a waaaaay easier game than usual which I'm pretty sure means they're overpowered right now as I'm no malakim expert.

so bottom line, I'd much rather see them get no ( or just less ) unhealthy from their favourite terrain, cuz otherwise they'll have permanent serious unhealth problems, and have them nerfed to bring em back in balance with other civs. sure, you could just nerf their "too much food" by giving them even MORE unhealthy from floodplains, but that doesn't make much sense

 

[tesb]

why not add a malakim building that decreases food while adding health? would be the most easiest way imho.

 

[Sephi]

everyone agrees Malakim is too powerful currently? Was also my impression from playtesting.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

agreed

what's the range of XP that you can get with enlighten? so far I did it once and I got like 4 XP, which is not impressive ( even less so considering it's quick speed, too bad spell timers don't scale with it... although I'm pretty sure denev's advandec rules modmod fixes that ) . the name of the ability is also pretty misleading: "enlighten city" , "removes non state-religions from the city" ? I don't want to enlighten the city, I want to practice ascetism and get XP!

so maybe that ability should be boosted to make it worthwhile and interesting? their yields definitely need to be toned down

aside from nerfing them, I'd also change the autoterraform so that riverside floodplains are always granted instead of random, the unpredictability of that can be annoying since you have absolutely no control over it.

 

[graywarden]

Testing as the Malakim, and I guess I have to say I am not "crazy" (ok maybe i am) about the terraforming aspect. I do like that it was toned down a little from the first time I checked it out. It feels like a desert elf thing on the surface, so my knee-jerk reaction is its a "k" car, stick a different emblem on the hood, and call it a dodge instead of a chrysler.

I personally like that the elves had a natural ability to go through the forest, because of course we are taught early on in tolkein school that they do. But the enviroment doesnt change unless you accept the FoL religion. So I am probably stating the obvious, we are talking symantics.

Ok so the Malakim are born with the desert enviroment magic and it follows them wherever they go. I think what would make it more palatable to my "over realistic" view of things is that they still make roads to connect their infrastructure, but the sand is both an ally and an enemy (think Dune). We got the scorpions and hyenas running amok and thats good. How about the sand shifts and coversup the roads on some type of wind basis, and you have keep the workers busy clearing the roads.
This would affect the commerce between cities, and some military traffic which isnt as bad because of the sand travel ability. I am sure this could be annoying, but the auto-feature should help keep that annoyance to a minimum. The trade off is the atmosphere created in that enviroment. (And maybe some real big sandstorms once every so often that really kicks up the dust.... arr arr)

I would really prefer that some mechanism of choice was allowed, whether it was religious, building, or whatever, that allowed the player the choice to decide if he wants all desert enviroment or not. If the philosophy background story is that its a desert crusade to make the world Dune, then I can go there, just not my preference.
Which throws me back to throw in some realism, and IMHO that will make the flavor more tasty.

 

[Sephi]

actually the idea of no roads in desert is from the dune mod the cause of the terrain change is a combination of climate and sun mana. Maybe it is happening a bit too fast right now, not sure.

 

[graywarden]

actually the idea of no roads in desert is from the dune mod the cause of the terrain change is a combination of climate and sun mana. Maybe it is happening a bit too fast right now, not sure.

The climate change occurrs pretty much within a few turns of your border/culture expansion.

I really wasnt "ing" as much as it may have sounded. It takes some getting use to, because probably as much as anything your worker system is affected the most.
In my current test I am actually doing VERY VERY well score and play-wise.

Probably the hardest adjustment is mostly a visual one. At a glance you really dont have the same "feel" of what your strategy should be, and part of this may be my play style, which tends to be what I label as "natural". I like to irrigate fresh water tiles, mine hills, build cottages on plains or grasslands as my pivot tile. So I dont spend a lot of time strategizing, I pretty much connect my network for the military/commerce and improve the tiles in a priority system from there.

Essentially in this enviroment your buildings structures dictate your city growth (primarily health) which I think is pretty spot-on. The road/sand suggestion for me was as much a visual factor as a play factor. I still kinda like the idea of having to fight the dunes (kinda like the snow here this winter.. haha) to keep the roads clear.
If what I have read on various games/tests by others, the Malakim seem to have a bit of a buff edge by this whole module process. So maybe this would be a good way to damp that down just a tad.

Maybe my view is too "broad" in that when I take over the world, I want to take over all the different enviroments that make up that world, rather then convert the enviroments to my world. For me thats a greater challenge, but maybe thats not as fun for others. Which is why I promote the choice factor in a player being able to determine "how much" in "less is more" or "more is more"... haha.

Just trying to do my part and give some feed back and some perspectives.

 

[graywarden]

Concerning Roads..... the Sand Walking ability of course is given to all Malakim units.
But it is not given to Non-Malakim units say for instance Bambur. So in a stack of units, you are required to go the speed of the slowest unit, hence either leave Bambur to catch up to the battle or force the entire stack to go the slowest member pace.
Roads of course are the mediating force thru all enviroments, and from whence Rome conquered the world and kept it conquered.
Let the sand dunes cover the roads as a challenge factor to balance the sand walking ability that the desert units have over their enemies.

 

[Valkrionn]

Honestly, I think any system that requires you to build roads, and randomly destroys them, will simply dissolve into a storm of micromanagement. Either use roads, or not; Don't try for a midground.

Just my opinion, of course.

 

[graywarden]

Honestly, I think any system that requires you to build roads, and randomly destroys them, will simply dissolve into a storm of micromanagement. Either use roads, or not; Don't try for a midground.

Just my opinion, of course.

I agree that the micromanagement of that could be tedious, and my only saving grace would be the auto system.
For me personally I would prefer the price of the micro task as a part and price of the enviromental "atmosphere" that is created.
And I may be in the minority on that too......

 

[Imuratep]

I played Malakim with Saralet (IMHO the best leader for them) and at turn 100 at standard speed I had a research of 80-100. IMHO it would be the best to block floodplains creation from occurring on tiles that already have resources on them. Especially calendarresources are quite nasty as they grant you a high researchrate without slowing your city growth as they usually do. Additionally you can ignore the problems other civs have with cities with good production/commerce resources, but without food resources as long as you stay next to a river.

 

[Sephi]

nice idea and a good way to nerf the Malakim a bit

@Graywarden We could add some Desert stormes Malakim only Events for flavor.