[GS] Mali Discussion Thread

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Sure, but worker charges are still more important than production for the space race.

Faith and gold buying workers with a Royal Academy without chopping for the win.

 

[God of Kings]

Faith and gold buying workers with a Royal Academy without chopping for the win.

Mali could compete with China for total number of builder charges.

 

[Tiger Genocide]

Seeing that sandstorm in the image and video, I think it will be more challenging for Mali to repair pillaged district and district buildings. Repairs cannot be bought with gold, no?

Ooof!

Sonic with the strong take.

Repairs are District driven or project driven, but yeah in general it is still based on production overall, so low production will make it worse.

 

[Stringer1313]

You literally get punished just for playing the game correctly.

That's why agendas make sense. Aren't we always complaining about the game being too easy? Frankly, I think all agendas should dislike you for doing something good and I wish the agendas were even stronger modifiers. Why would other civs want you to be successful? They should be jealous when you achieve success. Good games are about tradeoffs.

 

[Disgustipated]

Regarding sandstorms, yeah they are a threat. But they aren't supposed to be hitting the same deserts over and over according to Firaxis. So while you will be getting those, you won't be getting hurricanes, coast flooding, or other such disasters. I don't think it's a serious concern for Mali. Drought will be a concern, however, since you may not have much forest. May be wise to invest in aqueducts if droughts become a problem.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I'm trying to think of what they might show in the second half of the Mali livestream.

Possibilities:
More WC stuff
Grievances
Another late game unit a la Rock Band or GDR

 

[steveg700]

Rome was the largest empire in its time. Trajan hated everyone?

Rome's greatest enemies were the bigger rival empires, not the smaller ones.

That's argumentative, insomuch as it is utterly debatable whether a leader should look out at the other civ's and decide to set himself against smaller, easier prey or focus his animus against larger ones that will prove more threatening. Suffice to say, civ's are ultimately in competition with each other, and the agendas vary who they set their sights on. Trajan's agendas sets him up to try to absorb smaller civ's into his empire. But if everyone is smaller, then yeah he might be out for everyone's blood.

Regardless, in game context on higher levels, Rome is always going to be bigger than you, so Trajan is always going to hate you. The agenda might as well be "always hates the human player." That would be fine if it drove interesting or fun interactions, but it doesn't.

Well, if a player can't keep up with Trajan, then that's a problem they will face. And yeah, playing on higher difficulty can mean that you are at a disadvantage in keeping up.

The "fun" and "interesting" interactions are having or not having a positive diplo modifier. That's all agendas are for. Game's got plenty wrong with it, but this just seems like caviling.

 

[God of Kings]

Mali could compete with China for total number of builder charges.

I forgot to mention that Mali could also compete with the Aztecs for total number of builder charges as well.

 

[NukeAJS]

So I suppose the idea here is to make such obscene amounts of gold that you'd overcome the -30% production bonus (doesn't apply to districts) and -1 production to mines.

Well, given his bonuses, I'd say that's an easy order to fill. The biggest downside is that it seems like the ancient era is going to massively suck for him. The classical era will probably be quite rough as well. It would seem that getting currency ASAP and getting commercial districts up ASAP is going to be the highest priority.

 

[Icicle]

I'm going with withhold judgment until I play them as I'm not sure how it will all work out, but I really do like that they are making civ abilities with trade offs and I hope that this is a trend that continues, and is even moreso in the next expansion. I find the game more fun when decisions aren't just "make everything better."

 

[Cagarustus]

I think there’ll be a nerf of the production penalty later on. Ed will probably announce some rework in the numbers in this weeks livestream.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

So I suppose the idea here is to make such obscene amounts of gold that you'd overcome the -30% production bonus (doesn't apply to districts) and -1 production to mines.

Well, given his bonuses, I'd say that's an easy order to fill. The biggest downside is that it seems like the ancient era is going to massively suck for him. The classical era will probably be quite rough as well. It would seem that getting currency ASAP and getting commercial districts up ASAP is going to be the highest priority.

Exactly. You cannot play Mali the same way you play almost (so far) any other Civ. With everybody else, you push to maximize Production early on so you can spit out Scouts, Builders, at least one Settler, and defending Slingers/Warriors. With Mali, it's a Fool's Game to chase Production, because you are always going to be behind your neighbors. You chase Gold: get a Builder to spade up some Mines ASAP. If you dare, use your initial Warrior to whack the nearest Barbarian Camp (which is generally a good idea anyway) for the Gold Bonus, and use your first pile of Gold to buy whatever you need early: could be another Warrior, could be another Scout, could be you've got an absolute Sweet Spot of an initial position (nobody nearby to Mess With You and you already scuttled the first Barbs) and you can buy a Granary or Monument first.
Gold is your Production. It gives you the same options that high production gives another Civ, only with the addition that you can Hoard Gold until you are ready to surprise somebody, whereas Production cannot be Saved.

I suspect it will take most of us several plays to get 'used to' Mali and unlearn our old Civ VI habits, but having to come up with a whole new set of strategies and tactics of building and expanding is a Good Thing.

I just hope this trend continues in Civ Design...

 

[leandrombraz]

I'm trying to think of what they might show in the second half of the Mali livestream.

Possibilities:
More WC stuff
Grievances
Another late game unit a la Rock Band or GDR

They was going to show the science victory changes last stream then they decided not to. Maybe they will show it this time, so we might get more late game footage.

 

[UWHabs]

I'm going with withhold judgment until I play them as I'm not sure how it will all work out, but I really do like that they are making civ abilities with trade offs and I hope that this is a trend that continues, and is even moreso in the next expansion. I find the game more fun when decisions aren't just "make everything better."

Exactly. You cannot play Mali the same way you play almost (so far) any other Civ. With everybody else, you push to maximize Production early on so you can spit out Scouts, Builders, at least one Settler, and defending Slingers/Warriors. With Mali, it's a Fool's Game to chase Production, because you are always going to be behind your neighbors. You chase Gold: get a Builder to spade up some Mines ASAP. If you dare, use your initial Warrior to whack the nearest Barbarian Camp (which is generally a good idea anyway) for the Gold Bonus, and use your first pile of Gold to buy whatever you need early: could be another Warrior, could be another Scout, could be you've got an absolute Sweet Spot of an initial position (nobody nearby to Mess With You and you already scuttled the first Barbs) and you can buy a Granary or Monument first.
Gold is your Production. It gives you the same options that high production gives another Civ, only with the addition that you can Hoard Gold until you are ready to surprise somebody, whereas Production cannot be Saved.

I suspect it will take most of us several plays to get 'used to' Mali and unlearn our old Civ VI habits, but having to come up with a whole new set of strategies and tactics of building and expanding is a Good Thing.

I just hope this trend continues in Civ Design...

Yep, it's not just "+1 food and +2 gold on desert tiles", but a legit kind of crazy way to play. I do tend to like buying things often when I play, so it should fit in well to the playstyle. But I just know you're going to have so many games with them where the early stages of the game drag on without you being able to build anything.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

I feel like Firaxis was watching how I played Civ 6 and said, "Here, let's make that more efficient for you".

You only ever run international trade routes: let's throw some extra gold on those. And give you more routes as well..

You're only ever using your production to build districts and run projects, and buying everything else: would you like a discount on all those purchases?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I'm trying to think of what they might show in the second half of the Mali livestream.

Possibilities:
More WC stuff
Grievances
Another late game unit a la Rock Band or GDR

A gold and faith late game unit...uhh televangelist.

On a serious note I hope they show us more of the WC or the future era and science victory conditions.

Also I am surprised that they didn’t give them some inherent bonus toward science.

 

[God of Kings]

A gold and faith late game unit...uhh televangelist.

Televangelists would make a great economic policy card though (gain faith and boost religious pressure from broadcast towers).

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Also I am surprised that they didn’t give them some inherent bonus toward science.

Well they do get a "free" Jesuit Education

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Televangelists would make a great economic policy card though (gain faith and boost religious pressure from broadcast towers).

It was, hopefully, a joke but I agree it would make a good policy card.

 

[Navelgazer]

This looks to be the Venice of Cvi VI, except I think better-designed, generally.

The desert faith bonus likely means an even faster guaranteed pantheon than Indonesia, who is the iv they'll be most comparable to in a lot of ways (quick pantheon, buying rather than producing, growth bonus on normally trash tiles, etc.)

I can't wait.