[GS] Mali Discussion Thread

[Zaarin]

After the live stream, I actually changed my mind: Mali looks fun.

 

[AvianBritish]

LOL I keep having these visions of a poor barbarian horseman stalking a Malian trader, trying so hard to pillage it, except there's a Mandekalu Cavalry behind it...

Other then that, looks like a very unique and interesting civ to play.

Oh, I was imagining a crazier picture. An eternal conga line of barbs fixated on pillaging the trader unit and ignores everything else. “Next turn, for sure!...”

You have both given me a great idea for a comic page of that!

 

[UWHabs]

Best city states for Mali?
- Antioch for the foreign trade routes
- Brussels - because you will be building Wonders most of the time
- Carthage (if it is still a thing) - because you will be buying units not building them anyway
- Hong Kong - because you will probably be doing city projects a lot
- Kumasi - more trade route bonuses
- Valletta - Faith purchase bonuses

Of course, they will never appear when you need them

I'd say:
1. Muscat - assuming I have a Suguba everywhere, it's +1 amenity per city
2. Carthage (I can't spell its replacement) - with a barracks, now 40% cheaper to purchase. With Suguba+Theocracy+Barracks/Armory/Mil Academy, you now have a 95% discount on faith purchases. Or Suguba+Democracy+all 3 mil academy buildings and purchasing units is now free!
3. Lisbon - don't want them pillaged! And will be wanting water routes for the sweet gold bonus to them
4. Valetta - faith purchasing
5. Any CS with a UI - would be nice to have something to do with desert tiles
6. Any CS with trade route bonus - since you're going to be rocking them (although they will only have a couple more routes than normal, so really, it's not like these bonuses are any better for them than they are for anyone else)

The numbers on that Carthage bonus though get freaky late game. My current game I did test that Carthage does give a bonus to buying units with Faith, and it's super strong late game. Having an extra 20% on top of that? With democracy, it should literally cost you -5% to buy a unit.

 

[Disgustipated]

Cahokia is a strong city state for Mali.

 

[DWilson]

I'd say:
1. Muscat - assuming I have a Suguba everywhere, it's +1 amenity per city
2. Carthage (I can't spell its replacement) - with a barracks, now 40% cheaper to purchase. With Suguba+Theocracy+Barracks/Armory/Mil Academy, you now have a 95% discount on faith purchases. Or Suguba+Democracy+all 3 mil academy buildings and purchasing units is now free!
3. Lisbon - don't want them pillaged! And will be wanting water routes for the sweet gold bonus to them
4. Valetta - faith purchasing
5. Any CS with a UI - would be nice to have something to do with desert tiles
6. Any CS with trade route bonus - since you're going to be rocking them (although they will only have a couple more routes than normal, so really, it's not like these bonuses are any better for them than they are for anyone else)

The numbers on that Carthage bonus though get freaky late game. My current game I did test that Carthage does give a bonus to buying units with Faith, and it's super strong late game. Having an extra 20% on top of that? With democracy, it should literally cost you -5% to buy a unit.

With regard to the cost reduction, I'm pretty sure it's not additive, but rather sequential. In so much as it stacks

 

[Karmah]

Feels good, production loss is not an issue if you ask me . Could be frustrating because you'd be tempted to have petra zimbabwe...big ben ofc ... and that's the only place where gold does not help as much.
One thing puzzle me, it would be district order. I want my CH early , but I also want faith so and ofc campus are important. So besides my army maker specialized city with encampement, what would be the optimized trivial order...

 

[Pietato]

I guess they will take the king gold-generating title from the Cree. Although the Cree have no negatives.

 

[Steamboat Willem]

Feels good, production loss is not an issue if you ask me . Could be frustrating because you'd be tempted to have petra zimbabwe...big ben ofc ... and that's the only place where gold does not help as much.
One thing puzzle me, it would be district order. I want my CH early , but I also want faith so and ofc campus are important. So besides my army maker specialized city with encampement, what would be the optimized trivial order...

First thing to check in a Mali game is to see if Isidore of Athens is the first Great Engineer available, than plan around whether you want to buy him or not. 2000 gold for 430 cogs IIRC.

 

[Southern_Hunter]

With regard to the cost reduction, I'm pretty sure it's not additive, but rather sequential. In so much as it stacks

That has to be right otherwise it is broken. Even so, it could get pretty freakily high as a discount.

 

[darko82]

After the live stream, I actually changed my mind: Mali looks fun.

He looks worse than in Civ 4. I think they should have kept him the same style. For me, many leaders' art is questionable. Genghis Khan looks ridiculous, too. In Civ V and other Civ games he looked a lot better - like a warrior. Here he looks like a nice, smiling fat guy, which is not historically accurate. Personality should go well with the picture. And those stupid animations and looks of leaders often do not correspond with their true personalities.

Can someone explain logically why Mali gets bonuses from deserts? Are they sort of magicians in comparison to other civs? I do not get this.

 

[God of Kings]

I can't wait to go on a medieval pillage and kill spree across Pangaea with my Mandekalu cavalary. Who needs cities anyways? cash rules everything around me.

Better yet, when the Mandekalu cavs become obsolete, keep them, but use them to finish off strong units.

Giant Death Robots are walking gold mines when done correctly (though Mandekalu cavs may not be able to scratch Giant Death Robots).

 

[SupremacyKing2]

Can someone explain logically why Mali gets bonuses from deserts? Are they sort of magicians in comparison to other civs? I do not get this.

It's just done to make the player want to settle desert tiles. Normally, desert tiles are horrible so players avoid them. The devs want players to "play the map" and want to make different civs like different terrain that normally civs would avoid. Hence why Canada gets bonuses from tundra etc... So Mali get bonuses from desert so that the player will want to settle there.

 

[Disgustipated]

Can someone explain logically why Mali gets bonuses from deserts? Are they sort of magicians in comparison to other civs? I do not get this.

Same with Russia and tundra or Brazil and rainforest. Yeah I get that's a bit much magic for a game that is supposed to be realistic. But the alternative is a bland game like Civ2 where all the leaders/civilizations are the same in nearly every way. Civ2 was great for its time, but we just like more flavor from our civs. Flavor is the best way to describe such traits.

Speaking of older civ games, I like this version of Mali better than Civ4. Civ 4 while still a strong game in my heart, had its flaws. One of those was tying gold production to science with the slider. He was meant to be a financial civ, but in reality financial civs were the tech leaders. Later games fixed this problem.

Giant Death Robots are walking gold mines when done correctly (though Mandekalu cavs may not be able to scratch Giant Death Robots).

Imagining what's going through a horse's brain as it's charging towards a giant death robot. I do not envy that horse.

 

[darko82]

It's just done to make the player want to settle desert tiles. Normally, desert tiles are horrible so players avoid them. The devs want players to "play the map" and want to make different civs like different terrain that normally civs would avoid. Hence why Canada gets bonuses from tundra etc... So Mali get bonuses from desert so that the player will want to settle there.

Right. But is this historically accurate? Is this even realistic approach to the Civ game? Should the gameplay be more important, even if it's ridiculously inaccurate etc.?

I also once asked a question to myself. What happens to workers that dissapear after 3 uses. Why do they disappear? Does the mechanic reflect at least a bit of realism or some logic?

 

[Lord Lakely]

Better yet, when the Mandekalu cavs become obsolete, keep them, but use them to finish off strong units.

Definitely keep them because Mandekalu protect all trade routes within 4 tiles. I'd suggest you use them as a garrisons once they combat use has expired.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

Right. But is this historically accurate? Is this even realistic approach to the Civ game? Should the gameplay be more important, even if it's ridiculously inaccurate etc.?

I also once asked a question to myself. What happens to workers that dissapear after 3 uses. Why do they disappear? Does the mechanic reflect at least a bit of realism or some logic?

Well, no, I don't think it is necessarily realistic. But I think the devs are choosing gameplay over realism. They want the game to play a certain way that they think will be fun and interesting for players and are creating rules to do that.

 

[darko82]

Well, no, I don't think it is necessarily realistic. But I think the devs are choosing gameplay over realism. They want the game to play a certain way that they think will be fun and interesting for players and are creating rules to do that.

On the one hand, there are things they are trying to make to be historically accurate or "realistic". On the other hand, they are choosing the gameplay. It's contradictory. It's lack of coherence. I personally do not like it. They should keep one way. The one which is obvious to me. The same applies to the art style. Who is their target audience after over 25 years, I wonder? The old players or new kids?

 

[God of Kings]

The same applies to the art style. Who is their target audience after over 25 years, I wonder. The old players or kids?

Ah yes, the Animation Age Ghetto, which is largely discredited by most pop culture enthusiasts.

 

[darko82]

Ah yes, the Animation Age Ghetto.

How could even Genghis Khan animations and looks in Civ 6, for instance, ever be called "adult" or "accurate" when you consider his personality in real life? He was a villain and warrior, to say at least, thus he should look at least like that.

 

[steveg700]

On the one hand, there are things they are trying to make to be historically accurate or "realistic". On the other hand, they are choosing the gameplay. It's contradictory. It's lack of coherence. I personally do not like it. They should keep one way.

Well, that kind of absolutism is not a practical way to design a game. There have to be concessions. Now, they may be making a lot of silly choices like rock bands and hockey rinks, but having builders disappear is no more "unrealistic" than having them hang around forever.

How could even Genghis Khan animations and looks in Civ 6, for instance, ever be called "adult" or "accurate" when you consider his personality in real life? He was a villain and warrior, to say at least, thus he should look at least like that.

He is wearing the kind of garb Monguls wore int he field, and I don't know what you think a "villain" should look like. What, his mustache isn't twirling enough?