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[GS] Mali Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by bite, Jan 8, 2019.

  1. DJ_Tanner

    DJ_Tanner Chieftain

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    As mentioned many times here, there are plenty of historical drawings that depict him far closer to what is seen in Civ VI than the muscle bound bad guy from an 80's movie you seem to think is so very fitting. I also don't see how him being a little rotund somehow means he is not strong or not capable of being ruthless (besides the fact that he was also known for being an amazing statesman, I mean he did create the world's largest contiguous land empire, you don't do that without some sort of political prowess.)

    Also he may have been funny who knows, it isn't like being funny and being a "villain" are mutually exclusive.
     
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  2. thecrazyscot

    thecrazyscot Spiffy

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  3. darko82

    darko82 Chieftain

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    Without muscles, you were dead those times. Muscles that killed innocent women and children on both sides. He did the same to people who did it to him and his family. Even these days, go back to school and look at who wins. Isn't that those with big muscles bully others who have no muscles?

    Mali looks even worse than Khan :D
     
  4. Zaarin

    Zaarin My Dearest Doctor

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    Suffice to say I disagree on all counts, but personal taste is just that: personal. I much prefer Civ6's stylized approach, and the hyper-realism trend can't die soon enough IMO.
     
  5. steveg700

    steveg700 Warlord

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    Welp, so much for your "last word"....

    What about Hitler's pictures? There's plenty of them where he just looks like some guy who could be an assistant manager at a grocery store. You've spent pages expressing an utterly reductive and jejune position about how leaders should be depicted, or how they appeared in real life, and when the flaws in these views are pointed out, you just ignore them and repeat the same facile position. Mind you, it's not that I'm not enjoying myself correcting you. And in fairness, I am glad to see you have abandoned the word "realistic".

    Contrary to your characterization of Genghis as a barbarian, we know he was well-educated, an excellent diplomat, a calculating strategist, and perfectly civil to anyone he felt it benefited him to be civil to. He was tolerant of religious and cultural diversity to those under his rule and to the nations he did business with. Under Genghis the Mongol empire was a very safe place to live and do business with, not some chaotic hellhole. And yes, he could accomplish that looking like an Asian Ed O'Neil. No washboard abs required, just a very canny and ruthless mind. He didn't unite the Mongol empire through ritual combat. The Mongols weren't Klingons.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019 at 9:02 PM
  6. DJ_Tanner

    DJ_Tanner Chieftain

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    So if you are bigger you have no muscles?

    This is Mark Henry
    Spoiler :


    He is a happy looking larger man, he could most defiantly physically overpower most people in the world. He was a weightlifter, power-lifter, strongman, and later professional wrestler. I believe he would beg to differ with your assessment of what a strong (physically) person would look like. Besides the fact that the ability to be ruthless and ability to rip phone books in half rarely are the same.


    Also Mali is a civilization, Musa was a person. Who, by the way was also depicted with a bit of a belly as was normally in the time when you had sufficient means (which he certainly had plenty) to tended to be a little more overweight than the general population.
     
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  7. Zaarin

    Zaarin My Dearest Doctor

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    Which is why until about 100 years ago, having a little extra weight was considered attractive (and still is in much of the world): it meant you had the means to not just get by but in fact had more than you needed.
     
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  8. sonicmyst

    sonicmyst Chieftain

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    Mansa Musa of this latest version of Mali reminds me of Dileep Rao (Yusuf in Inception movie).
    Spoiler Dileep Rao :



    I don't mind how caricature these leaders are. The art style has grown on me. It's Firaxis' creative license.
     
  9. Sagax

    Sagax Chieftain

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    Pfff.....

     
  10. Xmonger

    Xmonger Chieftain

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    Back to Mali, this is far and ahead my favorite civ - definitely playing it first. Taking AI emergencies with $2k-$3k payouts has gotten me addicted to buying my way to the top. I'm all over this civ.
     
  11. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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  12. Cagarustus

    Cagarustus Chieftain

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    I think that this livestream has been the most responsive to live questions. I felt they answered a lot of more questions this time. I'm hoping that they show off even more features and reveal the changes made to the Abilities of existing civs - I might actually play one of these as my first civ for GS!
     
  13. sonicmyst

    sonicmyst Chieftain

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    This was Pete's livestream format. I remember his previous game livestreams that he focuses more on answering chat questions than focus on what the devs are playing onscreen.

    However I still miss Sarah's cheerfulness and Ed's storytelling.
     
  14. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Warlord

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    They have different styles. Sarah would bring up certain topics to discuss while Pete mostly focussed on questions. They are both good.

    As for Musa's appearance, he's okay. Being used to his Civ 4 appearance it's hard to get used to his weight, but eventually I will.

    As for Genghis, he's alright. Just be glad he doesn't look like John Wayne in the Conqueror. :)
     
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  15. darko82

    darko82 Chieftain

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    Here he looks like a man I could respect at least. I can notice self-confidence, bravery, strength and wisdom. Plus, he has a nice golden crown and cloth on his head etc. That's how he should be made.



    This representation is also interesting. Different, a bit more realistic.



    The first time in my life I saw Khan on a picture. Awesome game and the picture.

    indeks.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019 at 5:22 AM
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  16. Siptah

    Siptah Eternal Chieftain

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    Uh, realistic? That picture for medieval Mali? No way.

    There isn't a contemporary depiction of Musa I, the closest in time is on a Spanish map showing him with European regalia. So for his looks, we need to rely on a brief and superficial description of his successor by Ibn Batutta and historical findings showing contemporary clothing, weapons etc. Nothing in the picture you posted comes even slightly close, except that there were indeed horses with some kind of ornamentation.

    It's also not very fitting, since descriptions of Musa from Cairo tell us that besides his richness, he is most noteworthy for his piety.

    I personally dislike these kind of historical fantasy pictures anyway.
     
  17. NegativeZero

    NegativeZero Chieftain

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    I'll say that more stylistic character designs tend to hold up better over time and acquire "nostalgia" more readily.
     
  18. sonicmyst

    sonicmyst Chieftain

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    I personally like that bouncy belly of Mansa Musa. So funny.
     
  19. darko82

    darko82 Chieftain

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    Wealth often equals gluttony. Not an attractive trait, I must say.

    This. I cannot deny it.
     
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  20. Republic of San Montuoso

    Republic of San Montuoso Chieftain

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    You sound like an ultra-puritan calvinist. Fat could have its own grace, its own beauty. Mussa is, for me, perfect. The way FRX wanted to depicted Mussa was like a man with amazing wealth and, as they say in the first look, he spent his wealth to improve the life of its people. He was a man of strong faith, but faith for Islam can (and should) mean hospitality, helpfulness and generosity. So, since we have no official, historical depiction of Mussa during his reign, Firaxis has to make a character that match its personality, therefore a man ready to help his people and thus jolly, smily and (because he were filfthy rich) fatty. Islam is not a religion against fun, opposed to what people might say. Mussa could really have looked like this.

    Besides, you look quite contradictal: you don't like Gengis Khan because he doesn't look like what he should be (a villainous schemer) but you don't like Mussa neither because he does look like what he should be (a generous, wealthy, faithful islamic medieval leader).
    (And for your remark about the fact that, without muscles, you die in this time, I should remind you: Mongols fight mainly with archers and bows, not with closed warriors and swords ; muscles were not as important as stability and precision. It was not the english longbow, which required huge muscles).
     

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