[GS] Mali Discussion Thread

[Tabarnak]

(Multiplayer view)

If we have to wait for commercial hubs to kick off this civ it gonna be complicated in the ancient era to only just survive against neighbor civs that can potentially kill you before you could even research currency.

But once passed this part that without much trouble(viva isolated starts!) this civ can be a real powerhouse. I can't imagine how much science you can get from the medieval golden age dedication that gives science from comm hubs and harbors. Combine that with the 100% boost card...omg...(i can sometimes double science in a single turn with these things thanks to nice harbor sets)

 

[darko82]

Well, that kind of absolutism is not a practical way to design a game. There have to be concessions. Now, they may be making a lot of silly choices like rock bands and hockey rinks, but having builders disappear is no more "unrealistic" than having them hang around forever.

This part I actually managed to explain to myself somehow on my own. Suprisingly, both cases that you mentioned.

What, his mustache isn't twirling enough for you?

Just compare the Great Genghis Khan in Google Images. In Civ V he looked really good. Here... in Civ VI –––– my heart bleeds to say he looks like crap. Sorry, people.

 

[Sagax]

Just compare the Great Genghis Khan in Google Images. In Civ V he looked really good. Here... in Civ VI –––– my heart bleeds to say he looks like crap. Sorry, people.

It is time to accept that Civ has always been a digitized tabletop game, and there is not a single actual immersive history sandbox in the market - so people have to flock to the Civ franchise as the closest option. If anything, Civ 5 with its attempt at more realism and gravitas was an outlier in the series.

 

[darko82]

It is time to accept that Civ has always been a digitized tabletop game, and there is not a single actual immersive history sandbox in the market - so people have to flock to the Civ franchise as the closest option. If anything, Civ 5 with its attempt at more realism and gravitas was an outlier in the series.

Well, in previous games they did some things better – at least in terms of how some leaders looked like. Civ V would be the best example.

Some people have changed, so it had to influence some game aspects including the art of leaders etc.

 

[steveg700]

Just compare the Great Genghis Khan in Google Images. In Civ V he looked really good. Here... in Civ VI –––– my heart bleeds to say he looks like crap. Sorry, people.

Here's a few from Google images. What was your point again about Genghis looking chubby or calm?

Do you want "historical accuracy", or a caricature from a Conan comic?

 

[darko82]

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Here's a few from Google images. What was your point again about Genghis looking chubby or calm?

Do you want "historical accuracy", or a caricature from a Conan comic?

I want him to look strong and agressive - like a villain and killer. This one would be closer to who he was – he should look like a cruel barbarian. Realistic.





In Civ 6 he looks like a cartoony caricature. Sad.

 

[DJ_Tanner]

Right. But is this historically accurate? Is this even realistic approach to the Civ game? Should the gameplay be more important, even if it's ridiculously inaccurate etc.?

I also once asked a question to myself. What happens to workers that dissapear after 3 uses. Why do they disappear? Does the mechanic reflect at least a bit of realism or some logic?

Improvements to the land are costly, this is reflected in the limited number of charges (yet unlimited number of workers you can build). You spend resources to create a unit and that unit can improve the land, if you want to continue to improve the land it will cost more resources. As far as history is concerned that is the case, which makes it more historically accurate than its predecessors where you could build a single worker and improve the world for eternity.

I want him to look strong and agressive - like a villain and killer. This one would be closer to who he was – he should look like a cruel barbarian. Realistic.

But that is not what history tells us he looked like. There is no definitive example of his appearance but much shows someone that looked much more like his representation in Civ VI. Just because you have a predetermined idea of what a "warrior" and a "villian" must look like does not mean that is what they actually did.

 

[darko82]

But that is not what history tells us he looked like. There is no definitive example of his appearance but much shows someone that looked much more like his representation in Civ VI. Just because you have a predetermined idea of what a "warrior" and a "villian" must look like does not mean that is what they actually did.

He was a villain, so he should look like a villain. In Civ V he looked good.

Above, it was mentioned that the game was not historically accurate, especially the looks of leaders. So it should not matter how they really looked like. What matters is how their real character reflects their looks in the game. A villain should look like a villain and barbarian, not a nice fat nerd guy who idiotically nicely smiles at you - a cartoony caricature in particular.

 

[steveg700]

I want him to look strong and agressive - like a villain and killer. This one would be closer to who he was – he should look like a cruel barbarian. Realistic.

You're grossly misusing the word "realistic". You don't want realism, you want a cartoon based on a simplistic notion that a "cruel killer" should scowl and scream and dress in dark colors to identify himself as a brutal villain, like Khal Drogo or Ming the Merciless.

Suffice to say, your notion of Genghis as a barbaric villain is not objective reality, and it's not an opinion shared in some parts of the world.

He was a villain, so he should look like a villain.

Great. You've abandoned your pretense of seeking realism, and now we know you just want a facile depiction of the cartoon villain you have reduced Genghis to. Duly noted. This has been sufficiently indulged.

 

[darko82]

You're grossly misusing the word "realistic". You don't want realism, you want a cartoon based on a simplistic notion that a "cruel killer" should scowl and scream and dress in dark colors to identify himself as a brutal villain, like Khal Drogo or Ming the Merciless.

Suffice to say, your notion of Genghis as a barbaric villain is not objective reality, and it's not an opinion shared in some parts of the world.
View attachment 514561

How can you even deduct or imagine what I want? Are you even able explain what you wrote? Funny.

In my part of the world, it would be considered as barbaric. Because why would you burn and massively murder villages full of children just to expand for the sake of expansion that would eventually lead to the destruction and fall of the whole empire.

 

[bbbt]

He was a villain, so he should look like a villain. In Civ V he looked good.

I mean, he was certainly ruthless and genocidal when crossed, but it was not him wandering around killing people in hand to hand combat like Conan the Barbarian. He also established a lot of diplomatic vassal states, changed the ruling class to be more 'merit' based, etc. Calling him a 'villain and barbarian' is actually more caricatured and childish sounding... Though if this is just a word choice issue, I'd certainly agree he could be more 'menacing' in things like war declarations. Though given the state of the AI, he certainly couldn't back that up.

A villain should look like a villain and barbarian, not a nice fat nerd guy.

Have you ever seen a picture of Moderator Action: <SNIP> ?

Moderator Action: Please leave current events or politics for OT, not the game threads. leif
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[DJ_Tanner]

He was a villain, so he should look like a villain. In Civ V he looked good.

Above, it was mentioned that the game was not historically accurate, especially the looks of leaders. So it should not matter how they really looked like. What matters is how their real character reflects their looks in the game. A villain should look like a villain and barbarian, not a nice fat nerd guy who idiotically nicely smiles at you - a cartoony caricature in particular.

What you are asking for is a caricature. You are asking for something not based in reality and instead on a fantasy premise. You are litterally asking them to create a cartoony caricature.

 

[Casualty of war]

Since I resent greatly when I have to take time off from building Districts and Wonders to build units, Mali looks great. Run up the population and then do Projects.

I may rush my Encampments a bit more for the hammers when playing Mali. And I will be praying for starts with Sheep on a Hill!

 

[UWHabs]

(Multiplayer view)

If we have to wait for commercial hubs to kick off this civ it gonna be complicated in the ancient era to only just survive against neighbor civs that can potentially kill you before you could even research currency.

But once passed this part that without much trouble(viva isolated starts!) this civ can be a real powerhouse. I can't imagine how much science you can get from the medieval golden age dedication that gives science from comm hubs and harbors. Combine that with the 100% boost card...omg...(i can sometimes double science in a single turn with these things thanks to nice harbor sets)

Yep, like the livestream, they really didn't explain much about the map, but basically they seemed to start on one side of a mountain range, with the other civs on the other side. There were only 2-3 mountain passes, and every else was probably more worried with each other early on. In a start like that, they can survive until they get the network online, and then his gold+science (from the golden age dedication) really pushed forward.

 

[DJ_Tanner]

I mean Hitler kinda looked like a shinny nerd.

He was still a villian and all around awful guy.

 

[darko82]

What you are asking for is a caricature. You are asking for something not based in reality and instead on a fantasy premise. You are litterally asking them to create a cartoony caricature.

No, no... is Civ VI Genghis Khan not a caricature? Is this a true represenation of Genghis Khan? Does he look like a villain or a funny guy?

Genghis Khan

I mean Hitler kinda looked like a shinny nerd.

He was still a villian and all around awful guy.

I absolutely disagree. His looked like a devil. He eyes, face, and the way he talked was very creeepy!! To say at least. Very delicately. Having no big muscles does not mean you do not look like a creep psycho.

We have proof that he looked very evil on many real and authentic photos.

 

[steveg700]

How did you even deduct or imagine what I want?

No deduction required. I'm quoting your own words that you typed. And again, your expressed desire for realism contradicts your expressed opinion that Genghis Khan should be reduced to a caricature of a villian.

In my part of the world, it would be considered as barbaric. Because why would you burn and massively murder villages full of children just to expand for the sake of expansion that would eventually lead to the destruction and fall of the whole empire.

Well, because for the vast majority of human history, the value of human life was not considered to be worth much. That's hardly unique to Genghis, he was just fantastically successful in his campaigns. None of which has any bearing on what constitutes a "realistic" depiction, which was a word you chose to use more than once.

His behavior did not lead to the fall of his whole empire. His mortality did. He died, and the people who took over were not successful at keeping the large empire united. In your neck of the woods, you might call him a barbarian. Amongst others, he is revered and has many statues and memorials. Dig this portrait painted on a hillside. Not many leaders get that kind of reverence.

 

[darko82]

No deduction required. I'm quoting your own words that you typed. And again, your expressed desire for realism contradicts your expressed opinion that Genghis Khan should be reduced to a caricature of a villian.


Well, because for the vast majority of human history, the value of human life was not considered to be worth much. That's hardly unique to Genghis, he was just fantastically successful in his campaigns. None of which has any bearing on what constitutes a "realistic" depiction, which was a word you chose to use more than once.

His behavior did not lead to the fall of his whole empire. His mortality did. He died, and the people who took over were not successful at keeping the large empire united. In your neck of the woods, you might call him a barbarian. Amongst others, he is revered and has many statues and memorials. Dig this portrait painted on a hillside. Not many leaders get that kind of reverence.

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My last word to you. Do you really think he could achieve anything if wasn't a villain but a "nerd like "Hitler"? He was strong and ruthless. Read about it. When I look at him in Civ VI, he looks like a Bundy, no, not Ted Bundy but Al Bundy.

 

[steveg700]

My last word to you. Do you really think he could achieve anything if wasn't a villain but a "nerd like "Hitler"? He was strong and ruthless. Read about it.

"Last word"? We shall see.

I think your own knowledge of Genghis Khan lacks much nuance, to put it mildly.

The real question is, could he accomplish everything he accomplished looking like the way he looks in Civ VI? Certainly. The mongols never even read a Conan or Flash Gordon comic.

 

[darko82]

"Last word"? We shall see.

I think your own knowledge of Genghis Khan lacks much nuance, to put it mildly.

The real question is, could he accomplish everything he accomplished looking like the way he looks in Civ VI? Certainly. The mongols never even read a Conan or Flash Gordon comic.

Are you trying to tell me he was or looked like a nice guy? And he could be successful in those barbaic times being a nerd or what? He was ruthless and strong killer. Anyone else was simply slaughterd by those stronger barbarians. That was a condition to survive in those times. And I want his appearance to reflect this.

No, the looks go well with the character, especially the eyes. Look at Hitler's pictures.

And animations should reflect proper "behavour" and "personality" of a leader, to my mind. It's like a body language....