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[GS] Mali Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by bite, Jan 8, 2019.

  1. UWHabs

    UWHabs Warlord

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    I think early game they'll be similar to anyone else - you just have to know that you're getting ~1-2 production less than a normal civ, and that you can't throw a mine down to speed up that settler production. And you also have to realize that they do get the production bonus from quarries, and they do get them from pastures.

    So I think I'm still going to research for whatever resources are around me. I'll still go slinger-builder early on. But I'm also definitely more likely to move my settler by a tile or two to set me up better in the desert, and if I do happen to have lots of desert around my starting city, thus giving me lots of free food, then which tile I work certainly will change. The interesting questions will come up if you have a food tile that you can work in the first ring - do you work it to grow super fast, or do you need some production early? If I'm growing faster and have lots of desert around, do I have to be more aggressive in buying tiles?
     
  2. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Warlord

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    I think it will be interesting what economic policy you pick first at Code of Laws. Do you get Urban Planning to compensate for the lack of production or go for God King and wait to buy your first settler.
     
  3. MarigoldRan

    MarigoldRan WARLORD

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    Obviously as Mali it's production as you're swimming in Faith for Pantheon.
     
  4. Boris Gudenuf

    Boris Gudenuf Warlord

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    Even more than most Civs, I suspect Mali will be one where the 'tactics' of play will be decided by your starting position and what kind of Tiles you have to work with: flat desert, mineable tiles of any kind . . . On the very first turn they will determine what you build first, and I don't see how you could ever have a situation with this Civ where "in every game I build X first". . .
     
    Zaarin likes this.
  5. Cyberian

    Cyberian Chieftain

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    Totally this... starting position will make insanely different games. Any production resources around like something with quarry or pasture or stuff to chop on edges? Earlier worker. Else I don't care for worker that much maybe want to go settler sooner. The initial added food and faith leads to higher yields from going wide and also means insane early growth. The chance is quite high that there is at least one oasis or floodplains within your starting city including moving settler one tile. That would be up to 9 food which is insane and of course you want production instead but you might have to wait a few turns until you can expand to one side with bought or grown tiles to add some better terrain.

    Whatever I want to get densely settled desert cities to maximise the city center bonus and special district yield. Probably means much earlier Settler than I usually do also helps with the housing limit and is not much of a problem with this civ insane early popgrowth. Maybe even Slinger - Settler if theres not much nice terrain around. Even if the settler takes 15 turns. Getting more cities early gives insane yields. I think peoples will go for a super dense city net as early as possible which should be possible with the increased food.
    Classical game is not an issue once you got your first CH and traderoute out you are fine. But its the first 50 turns where this civ is hurting. I only usually play civs with early advantage as thats when the game is decided on immo/deity. But maybe the center tile bonus can be that early advantage depending on some factors.

    Anyone knows the specifics of what they changed with faith purchases?
    Full desert with 1 floodplains or oasis mean growing to size 2 in 2 turns right? 9-2 = 7 food net 14 needed for 2.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019 at 12:19 AM
  6. acluewithout

    acluewithout Warlord

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    The more I think about it, a half-price Commercial Hub really is going to be very good. I mean, England pre-Nerf was at least still okay just because it had a half-price Harbours.

    Mali's food bonus is interesting. But if you build on a desert, where are you going to get your housing from? And what are all your extra citizens going to do? All your workable tiles will be awful... well, I guess you desert hill tiles will be okay.
     
    Icicle likes this.
  7. Wyvern_Parade

    Wyvern_Parade Chieftain

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    I think it will be better to settle on the edge of deserts as Mali precisely due to the issues you mentioned. Maybe you start with 2 or 3 less food/faith in your city, but you'll have access to better tiles, and that is still plenty to get you an early pantheon and initial city growth. If you settle in the middle of a desert the only potentially good tiles you could work would be ones with resources or floodplains after a few floods have boosted them. Even a regular desert hill providing 1 prod/4 gold isn't very good.
     
  8. MarigoldRan

    MarigoldRan WARLORD

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    With Mali you can easily grab Pantheon of the Forge to cancel out their production malus early on.
     
  9. NegativeZero

    NegativeZero Chieftain

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    For military units that would work, but the production penalty applies to civilian units as well.
     
  10. MarigoldRan

    MarigoldRan WARLORD

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    That's not a problem with Overflow.
     
  11. NegativeZero

    NegativeZero Chieftain

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    Chopping for Mali will still be nice, but policy production overflow from walls/units/etc into other unit types/buildings/etc. is said to be fixed in GS.

    Why not buy everything with Mali as they where designed to do?
     
    Siptah likes this.
  12. Lord Lakely

    Lord Lakely Unintentionally a feminist.

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    Because you will run out of gold. You need gold for everything, you can't buy everything at once.

    It's LESS of an issue with Mali, but never the less time is not on your side because everyone will outproduce you. You need to save your money to buy the trader as soon as you get Foreign Trade, set up a TR to a city state asap, then beeline to Currency, as you buy archers for defence and recruit settlers (colonzation ard, you can't afford buying them) , set up Sugubas, FB the Market, GB the trader, grab the GovPlaza + Ancestral Hall (to promote Reina and Moksha, and also to avoid buying workers in non-desert cities), Grab Maths (petra) and Feudalism(serfdoom), get started on Petra, get Mandekalu.

    All this should happen before you even decide what victory type to persue. The above sequence allows you to levelpeg with the others. Musa Industries can do a lot of things with gold but your econ has to be on point first, otherwise you're just a bad civ with crap prod that will lag behind. Forever.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019 at 4:40 AM
    NegativeZero likes this.
  13. Boyan_Sun

    Boyan_Sun Chieftain

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    It's not just that, but worse. If this ancient bug hasn't been solved when GS releases, Mali will be punished (1-30%) * (1-30%), which is actually -50% to units and buildings. In the newest video we see that wasn't fixed.
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...ed-bug-that-will-probably-affect-mali.640705/
     
  14. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Chieftain

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    So actually -51% production? Still playable of course, but with the real Deity difficulty (-51% prod, oh.)
     
  15. MarigoldRan

    MarigoldRan WARLORD

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    They better fix that or Mali would be bad.

    Key with Mali, like Kongo, is to upgrade units every era.
     
  16. DWilson

    DWilson Where am I? What turn is it?

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    I'm sorry, what bug?
     
  17. Browd

    Browd Dilettante Administrator

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  18. jddods

    jddods Chieftain

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  19. Lord Lakely

    Lord Lakely Unintentionally a feminist.

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    Lol it's actually even less than half because your mines don't produce anythink as well.
     
  20. Wyvern_Parade

    Wyvern_Parade Chieftain

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    As someone in the original thread mentioned, I hope someone has submitted (or even resubmitted) a bug report to 2K/Firaxis about this. Could also be useful to post about it on the civ subreddit for visibility since we know that both the 2K community manager and Firaxis check there often.

    On the other hand, if this bug has been in place for so long they probably balanced Mali around the current way percentages work in the game. So perhaps this functional -51% is actually what they found to be balanced in their play testing. However this does not resolve the fact that it is obscure and misleading for the player.
     

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