Manchus for VP

pineappledan

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Manchuria.png

Manchus
Download here (Mega Link)
Use with Promotion Flags highly recommended (in-game settings option)​
Kangxi_256.png

Leader: Kangxi

UA: Eight Banners
Non-Siege Land Military Units Gain the Eight Banners promotion. Whenever you gain a land tile, enemy units on that tile join your side.
PI_Manchu_violet_32.png
Unique Promotion: Eight Banners
A random banner is assigned after the unit’s first combat. Gain +5 healing in Enemy Territory, and +1 Movement when starting a turn adjacent to a unit with the same banner.​
JurchenHorseArcher.png

UU1: Niru (Heavy Skirmisher)
available at Physics
175 :c5production: Production cost
15 :c5strength: CS, 20 :c5rangedstrength: RCS
4 :c5moves: Movement​
"Rough Terrain Penalty"​
"Can Move after Attacking"​
No penalty vs cities
"Niyamniyan" (On attack, deals 10 damage to the enemy unit behind the target)​
ManchuAtlas_256.png

UC1: Yuanming Garden(Summer Palace)
Replaces Hermitage
Requires Garden
+3 :c5production:Production, +5 :c5gold:Gold, +6 :c5science:Science, +2 :c5culture:Culture (same yields as a Palace)​
+1 :c5science:Science and :c5culture:Culture for every 3 :c5citizen:Citizens
+10% :c5culture: Culture​
3 Slots for :greatwork:Great Works of Art (4:c5culture::c5gold: if Themed)​
-1 :c5unhappy:Boredomin all Cities​
+5 :c5culture:Culture and :c5gold:Gold to Gardens on Empire
33% of :c5greatperson:Great People Points generated by specialists in other cities are transferred to this city
Gain 10 :c5food:Food in all cities when you Expend a Great Person, scaling with era
Spoiler 4UC :

GreenStandard.png

UU2: Green Standard (Musketman)
available at Metallurgy
325 :c5production: Production Cost
Full XP and can move after purchase
Unit purchase Requires a Courthouse in the city
25 :c5strength: CS, 30 :c5rangedstrength: RCS​
2 Range​
2 :c5moves: Movement​
"Defection" (Deal 2 additional flat damage on Attack for each Foreign City you control, max of 10 damage)​
ManjuHoton.png

UC2: Manju Hoton
Unlocked at Banking
500:c5production:
4:c5gold:maintenance
+2:c5production:
+3:c5strength:City Defense
+50 City HP
Improves City Security Level by 25%​
-1 Unhappiness from :c5unhappy: Distress​
Reduces Empire :c5unhappy: Needs Modifier by 5% in this City
All building effects doubled if city is Garrisoned with a Bannered military Unit (ie. non-siege unit with post-combat promotion assigned)​

Credits:
  • Aisin Alin - 3D leader
  • Charm of Manchu - peace & war themes
  • Firaxis - Civ icon
  • JFD - Niru icon
  • Sukritact - Manju Hoton icon
  • TarcisioCM - Green Standard icon
  • Danrell - Niru unit model
  • Bernie14 - Green Standard unit model
  • Janboruta - Map
  • Senshi - Spy and city lists
  • Gwennog - unique promotion icons
  • Iska - 3D leader coding
  • Rekk - lua coding & debugging help
  • pineappledan - Author
 
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pineappledan

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mod is using placeholder art assets for the DOM splash screen, the DOM speech, and the leader icon.

Will change when I have access to my art suite again in September. For now, it seemed a shame not to post this code complete civ until weeks later.
 

Urzamax

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It appears that the game considers Manchu and Chola to be the same mod, giving an 'Another version of this mod is already enabled' message if you try to enable both of them.
 
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pineappledan

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Oops! haha, yeah I used the chola mod as a baseline but forgot to change the modID.

Will re-upload
EDIT: re-uploaded
 
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pineappledan

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It was working for me. Usually it’s a load order problem

Just take out the WHERE EXISTS part that hates the 4UC. The unique overrides are the last lines of the GameDefines.sql
 

pineappledan

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update posted:
Code:
- Fixed bug that prevented recon units from gaining the 8 banners bonus (and small optimizations)
- Converted units no longer retain their XP or movement on conversion
The XP and promotions on units can be added back if that's what people want, but starting at 0 XP seems more fair. Unlike Huns' unit conversion, Converted manchu units still cost :c5war: war supply, but they start with the HP that they were converted with, which could be full HP.

Note that Manchus can convert enemy units by flipping the tile beneath that unit using any method. That includes GGeneral culture bombs, tile purchase, city conquest, and settling new cities.
 

pineappledan

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Update for manchus.
New DOM and leader icons
Converted units now keep their XP and promotions again.
 

pineappledan

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Reuploading.

Added compatibility for Promotion Flags. Tested, and functional. The 8 banners are highest priority now, so they should always be visible.

Still waiting to hear any feedback on this civ. I'm hoping some people try it out, and can share their experiences with it.
 

KlHannibal2

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update posted:
Code:
- Fixed bug that prevented recon units from gaining the 8 banners bonus (and small optimizations)
- Converted units no longer retain their XP or movement on conversion
The XP and promotions on units can be added back if that's what people want, but starting at 0 XP seems more fair. Unlike Huns' unit conversion, Converted manchu units still cost :c5war: war supply, but they start with the HP that they were converted with, which could be full HP.

Note that Manchus can convert enemy units by flipping the tile beneath that unit using any method. That includes GGeneral culture bombs, tile purchase, city conquest, and settling new cities.
Wow, Lebensraum Citadels and just taking a city with an army around sounds super powerful, esp. when taking a coastal city with a fleet and taking over the defending army. But you have to work almost without bonuses until you conquer something. Sounds interesting.

As for the extra heal from nearby same banner: is this independent of unit action (like march) or it only works if the unit is healing naturally?
 

pineappledan

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Wow, Lebensraum Citadels and just taking a city with an army around sounds super powerful, esp. when taking a coastal city with a fleet and taking over the defending army. But you have to work almost without bonuses until you conquer something. Sounds interesting.
You can do things like buy a plot from underneath an invading army, or passing barbarians and convert that way too. Any tile claim method is valid.
As for the extra heal from nearby same banner: is this independent of unit action (like march) or it only works if the unit is healing naturally?
Regardless of action.
 

KlHannibal2

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Still waiting to hear any feedback on this civ. I'm hoping some people try it out, and can share their experiences with it.
Here you go, sir. I gave the Manchu a try and played with fairly standard settings:

Newest VP and more UC mods, Milae's difficulty mod, Milae map.

Standard size and speed, mostly standard settings, balanced resources. Deity.

I played until late medieval, after getting my first vassal. Start was very good with god of the sun and lots of affected resources (might be a map issue).

I founded 6 cities, one of them forward near Germany and Korea. If one of them had attacked, I could have used the UA to convert units, but the AI is very tolerant nowadays. So I built up an army the hard way (some 9 Niru, 4 Longswords, 4 trebs) and attacked Germany. It was an easy war, terrain was good for skirmishers.

My observations:
UA
Banner part: I got lucky and got an early warrior-slinger pair. The extra move and heal helped a lot in clearing barbs. But later, in my war against Germany, it turned into a micro hell. Especially with my Niru heavy army where units rotate all the time. I did not bother with the bannders any more at that point.

Free unit part: I only used it after conquest as the AI did not attack my forward city. Forgot that you can use it on barbs early, I think it can be useful here.
After taking 2 german cities, I had converted 9 units. This is REALLY powerful. You have to cross the threshold of getting the first 1 or 2 cities, but then it allows you to steamroll. Not only do you get extra units, but you take them away from the AI, saving time in your conquests. If I go on with this game, I expect to get way more free units than I can use. Which would allow for human wave tactics, where you just sacrifice melee units as they will be replaced for free.

Niru UU: the unit felt in the right spot. Some extra ranged CS, no city penalty and damage to the 2nd line of enemy units. Helps you kill units and cities and disrupt the army as a whole. Only the 2nd line damage carries over after upgrading, but I think it's fine. Their job is to start your snowball. When they upgrade, the sheer mass of your free units will carry you onward.

I did not play unitl the other UCs, but my thoughts on the musketman UU (Green Standard):
The damage bonus seems nice. Buy the time they unlock I would have 5 conquered cities and I could quickly get 5 more by taking city states. 10 is a very solid bonus damage on top of normal damage. Makes me want to go logistics on all of them.
On the other hand, this unit is a bit anti synergistc with the UA and the Niru. By the time the muskets unlock, I would already have many ranged cav units along with some siege to cover the ranged department. I will probably be over my unit cap already or have to delete / sacrifice in combat some units before that point. So why invest hammers when you are at unit cap already? Maybe it would be worth deleting some low quality converted units to make room for them as a strong ranged backbone behind a mass of converted and expendable melee units.

Overall feedback:
The banner part of the UA quickly becomes very tedious to use properly. I stopped using it, and I guess many players would do the same. With all the free units you get, your army will be huge and the effort for unsing it even greater. It is a unique mechanic, and that's what I like about it. One way to improve that could be a promotion that does not depend on proximity of one of different promotions, but something simpler. Like a melee unit has to be next to a ranged unit and vice versa to get the bonus. Or, make the promotion visible at the unit icon on the map. A lot of the tedious work in this mechanic comes from the fact that I have to select every unit to see which banner it has. Much harder than just looking at the unit symbols on the map. If possible, the latter is my preferred improvement as it conserves the uniqueness but make using it way easier.

The free units are very strong and fun to use. I don't mind them being that strong. Others might think differently though.

The Niru seems on spot.

The Green Standard comes at a time when your army is already maxed out and you have mostly ranged cav instead of ranged foot units. It could be a fallback option if you have no horses. But if you did not conquer anything before you get them, they will not be much better than standard musketmen. Not sure about them over all.

Both music themes are great. gives Qing Dynasty feel.
 

KlHannibal2

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Some more feedback on the unit conversion upon city capture (I tested it by giving myself missile cruisers with vanguard using IGE):

- You also get civilian units if they are on tiles you gain.
- You get the units with the promotions and health level they had before you tokk the city. Promotions are not transferred 100%. I tested Iroquois longswordsmen: You get the woodsman promotion (from their UA) but you don't get the forest / jungle bonus that came with the mowhawk (the one with the leaf icon). If you convert a mohawk directly, you also get the leaf promotion.
I also tested Zulus and there you get all the buffalo promotions.
- If taking a city state, you get all the units within the city's borders. Other units are deleted.
- You also get naval units and embarked land units when getting sea tiles after a city conquest.
So with the last point, the UA is definitely OP. I guess it is not intended to convert naval and embarked units.
 
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pineappledan

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I guess I did say “land tile” in the UA for unit conversion, but forgot to implement that filter. I’m surprised to hear it is OP to convert embarked/boat units.

From your feedback, I am glad I managed to at least get the UU1 earlier. The Manchu empire starts in the 1600s, so there are not many things to bring earlier without it being anachronistic.

Regarding the UA’s tedium, this is why I recommend using the promotion flags mod in the OP. I am thinking I should make the reward for the adjacency game smaller, and give a weak, but consistent healing bonus in enemy terrain that doesn’t require the adjacency.
The free units are very strong and fun to use. I don't mind them being that strong. Others might think differently though.
I don't really see this as a problem because both the UBs are late and weak. The Manchu kit is very unit-centric, and that's intended.
At least I think that's the cas;, the UNW might actually be OP, but it's hard for me to say because I haven't had time to test it.
 
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KlHannibal2

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I guess I did say “land tile” in the UA for unit conversion, but forgot to implement that filter. I’m surprised to hear it is OP to convert embarked/boat units.

When I thought only land units are converted, I thought it might be OP. Seeing it also work for naval units pushed it over the threshold.

The feeling that the free units are OP might be biased thought. The game felt very easy. This version seems easier tham older ones. I forward settled without being attacked. Then I had too many god of sun resources. Weak neighbors. And excellent terrain for the first UU.

Yeah, good that the first UU comes in medieval.

I might go on with this game to test the other components. The UNW cought my attention.
 

pineappledan

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I might go on with this game to test the other components. The UNW cought my attention.
I am very interested in feedback on that, yes. Instant food is hard to get right. The space is thin between feeling irrelevant and a population explosion ruining your empire management. So instant food on Empire has me spooked.
 

KlHannibal2

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I played some more and went on to conquer Korea. He had 3 cities on my continent and one on another, across a narrow sea. The cities on my contitnent were easily taken. His hwachas killed some of my units, but I had gotten so many free longswords from Germany that I did not care. Taking those 3 cities would gave been easy for any warmonger civ, but when taking the overseas city, the UA showed its value. I converted about 6 ships and 4 hwachas which made crossing the sea easy. I had no navy before that. Otherwise I would have needed to first build a navy from my conquered korean cities and also kill more of his ships.

I also got to use the musket UU. It packed a good punch and the occasional extra move from the banner was quite handy. I did not build many since I had several hwachas and also ranged cannons from my first war. But I can see their potential if you convert some ranged UUs that upgrade into them. Like longbows or babylonian bowmen.

I did not unlock the UNW yet. As I understand it, the 25 food when you expend great people does not scale with era. That does not sound like much, but I have no feeling for how often you will get GP in your capital. With my current cities, I could triple the scientist points in my capital with the UNW. So it would be at a similar level as Austria's UA, but not for as many GP types (at least until you get to work all specialists in every city).

I tried the promotion flag mod but it would not activate with my other mods. It would be helpful indeed.

Onother little thing to mention, my capital was at one point attacked by Byzantium. I could not buy tiles as the 3rd ring was full, but I randomly got a new tile naturally in the 4th ring, taking over one of his units.

Unfortunately my game crashed and I have no idea how to go on. Would be nice to test the rest.
 

pineappledan

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It only just occurred to me that China having a crossbow UU they can convert and then the Qing having a musket it can upgrade into is a fun bit of roleplay.

The instant food scales with era, so 75 in renaissance when it unlocks.

Next version will have these changes, based on this convo:
- no sea convert
- new method for unit conversion
- eight banner promo give +5 heal in enemy land (heals 10 in enemy land, same as neutral)
- eight banner promo only give move on heal for adjacency
 

KlHannibal2

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It only just occurred to me that China having a crossbow UU they can convert and then the Qing having a musket it can upgrade into is a fun bit of roleplay.

The instant food scales with era, so 75 in renaissance when it unlocks.

Next version will have these changes, based on this convo:
- no sea convert
- new method for unit conversion
- eight banner promo give +5 heal in enemy land (heals 10 in enemy land, same as neutral)
- eight banner promo only give move on heal for adjacency
Oh, and one more observations: I also converted a great diplomat. Not sure if it's intended.
 

KlHannibal2

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I now tested the UNW using IGE. It did not seem to have all the intended effects. I did not see GPP transfer from other cities. Also, the extra yields to gardens were shown in the city screen at the gardens, but the total culture in the main screen did not change accordingly. The food from expending GP worked though. Maybe it would work properly if built normally.

Are the extra yields to gardens intended? They show up in some interfaces, but not in others.
 
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