ToddMarshall
Maniac - Stellar Wingman
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Maniac1 - OBC Babylon Space Race
- Thread starter ToddMarshall
- Start date
Looks like progress is being made. Cops will be a very nice addition to Babylon. If the Mongols and Incans are still at it, perhaps sell education to the Zulus. The Mongols will get it from the GL and can then sell it for peace with the Incans. We need everyone at peace or fighting the Zulus.
Lets build up knights. The Zulus will have a hard time against them when we have a defensive war. They also upgrade to cavs.......
Lets build up knights. The Zulus will have a hard time against them when we have a defensive war. They also upgrade to cavs.......
Indeed Zimbawe being so close it is a shame we can t jsut quickly raze it [aargh]
Loads of Zulus are busy pounding the Mongols and are thus close to us. I cant see us not losing a city if we declare now.
I veto the galley in Tiwanaku : it is under cultural pressure from Huamanga and it s badly needed.
We're still working tons of un-improved land with such a small empire its a shame really, will try to solve that...
Wow we only have 4 workers [eek]
Portugal lacks Education but has Chemistry, lets hope we can get Astronomy soon enough to do get Chemistry for it.
370AD : Zulu extorts us Wines [sad] No way I could not give in right now with Unis almost built everywhere, no cash and
literally hundreds of Zulus units around...Since our rep is already trashed we could maybe, pillage our roadss soon
380AD : Olia completes Uni, its 7 turns for a Knight and 8 turns for a Cath, I go for Cath as we are also under cultural
pressure here.
390AD : WOW ! The Incans complete Sistine
and we are 1 turn from Astronomy ! I keep Babylon on Sistine and
change it in the interturn to Cops, due in 9. That was close...
By the way Portugal is at peace with Zulus, we have no embassy with Mongols or Incans which is not convenient, I see Incans at war with Mongols, I buy Embassy with Incans for 47g. Its got Pyramids and Sistine and defended by 6 muskets, 6 luxes and building Uni.
I want to trade Astronomy on the interturn too. I have a plan to try to keep Mongol alive, I trade Chemistry to Mongols for Astronomy. Hopefully they can give it to Zulus for peace , desperate attempt yes I know...[sad]
Zulus have Metallurgy at monopoly
400AD: Almarikh completes Uni and goes on Mil production : Trebuchets will be very useful for our defensive war.
My maneuver works too well : Zulus sign Peace with Mongols and move tons of troops inside our territory...guess what ?
We make preparations for war, get our units to the South.
Notice that the Mongols have Metallurgy but cant buy it.
All our attacking untis are in Almarikh and I now ask Zulus to leave or declare. They declare.
We lose 3 AC but take out 7 MedInf and 2 Lonbows.
410AD : No attacks from Zulus they retreat back to their lands
We lose 2 AC but take out *all* Zulu units in our territory, bless that wonder !
I rush a knight in Ollan.
420AD : no counter, the lack of fast units from Zulu is just bliss, they are now moving away from Almarikh, since none of
their units cant reach us next turn, I give our troops a well deserved rest. We have 3 knights and 6 ACs in Almarikh...
The Zulus have one SoD with 4 longbows and 5 MedInf and another one with 3 Elite longbows and 1 Elite MedInf. They have a lone musket between both SoDs.
430AD : Our lone Bowmen scouting in the south pillages Zulu roads, he survives a Longbow attack ! Gotta love those lil buggers
We can now rush a knight a turn between 3 cities and 1 turn out of 2 we can rush 2 knights.
The large SoD moves West again, its going towards Ollan which is less defended, we will have to puppet string them for a while here while we might be able to take the initiative soon to build a devastating raid towards Zimb ?
The Elite SoD is now next to Almarikh for an attack next turn, we lose a knight but take out the whole SoD without further loss.
Situation is stabilizing.
440AD : Lone Bowman dies to a musket
Try leader fishing with a 6HP Ancient Cav , win vs reg Longbow but no luck. Start moving untis towards Ollan where the Zulu forces are gathering.
450AD : There is a problem tile by Ollan, it s a forest and would make a goog base for the Zulus, I move defence on that
square and leave other tiles defended too in order to force Zulus onto a plain tile where we can hit them the best.
Cops is due next turn so is the acqueduct in Kazan (much more needed than a Uni I felt).
The ACs are in Almarikh, our elite has just taken out a musket over there. I would strongly advise my successor to let the Ollan front has it is since it s a puppet string maneuver, I am pretty confident we are OK for next turn.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Maniac1,_450_AD.zip
Loads of Zulus are busy pounding the Mongols and are thus close to us. I cant see us not losing a city if we declare now.
I veto the galley in Tiwanaku : it is under cultural pressure from Huamanga and it s badly needed.
We're still working tons of un-improved land with such a small empire its a shame really, will try to solve that...
Wow we only have 4 workers [eek]
Portugal lacks Education but has Chemistry, lets hope we can get Astronomy soon enough to do get Chemistry for it.
370AD : Zulu extorts us Wines [sad] No way I could not give in right now with Unis almost built everywhere, no cash and
literally hundreds of Zulus units around...Since our rep is already trashed we could maybe, pillage our roadss soon
380AD : Olia completes Uni, its 7 turns for a Knight and 8 turns for a Cath, I go for Cath as we are also under cultural
pressure here.
390AD : WOW ! The Incans complete Sistine
and we are 1 turn from Astronomy ! I keep Babylon on Sistine andchange it in the interturn to Cops, due in 9. That was close...
By the way Portugal is at peace with Zulus, we have no embassy with Mongols or Incans which is not convenient, I see Incans at war with Mongols, I buy Embassy with Incans for 47g. Its got Pyramids and Sistine and defended by 6 muskets, 6 luxes and building Uni.
I want to trade Astronomy on the interturn too. I have a plan to try to keep Mongol alive, I trade Chemistry to Mongols for Astronomy. Hopefully they can give it to Zulus for peace , desperate attempt yes I know...[sad]
Zulus have Metallurgy at monopoly
400AD: Almarikh completes Uni and goes on Mil production : Trebuchets will be very useful for our defensive war.
My maneuver works too well : Zulus sign Peace with Mongols and move tons of troops inside our territory...guess what ?
We make preparations for war, get our units to the South.
Notice that the Mongols have Metallurgy but cant buy it.
All our attacking untis are in Almarikh and I now ask Zulus to leave or declare. They declare.
We lose 3 AC but take out 7 MedInf and 2 Lonbows.
410AD : No attacks from Zulus they retreat back to their lands
We lose 2 AC but take out *all* Zulu units in our territory, bless that wonder !
I rush a knight in Ollan.
420AD : no counter, the lack of fast units from Zulu is just bliss, they are now moving away from Almarikh, since none of
their units cant reach us next turn, I give our troops a well deserved rest. We have 3 knights and 6 ACs in Almarikh...
The Zulus have one SoD with 4 longbows and 5 MedInf and another one with 3 Elite longbows and 1 Elite MedInf. They have a lone musket between both SoDs.
430AD : Our lone Bowmen scouting in the south pillages Zulu roads, he survives a Longbow attack ! Gotta love those lil buggers
We can now rush a knight a turn between 3 cities and 1 turn out of 2 we can rush 2 knights.
The large SoD moves West again, its going towards Ollan which is less defended, we will have to puppet string them for a while here while we might be able to take the initiative soon to build a devastating raid towards Zimb ?
The Elite SoD is now next to Almarikh for an attack next turn, we lose a knight but take out the whole SoD without further loss.
Situation is stabilizing.
440AD : Lone Bowman dies to a musket
Try leader fishing with a 6HP Ancient Cav , win vs reg Longbow but no luck. Start moving untis towards Ollan where the Zulu forces are gathering.450AD : There is a problem tile by Ollan, it s a forest and would make a goog base for the Zulus, I move defence on that
square and leave other tiles defended too in order to force Zulus onto a plain tile where we can hit them the best.
Cops is due next turn so is the acqueduct in Kazan (much more needed than a Uni I felt).
The ACs are in Almarikh, our elite has just taken out a musket over there. I would strongly advise my successor to let the Ollan front has it is since it s a puppet string maneuver, I am pretty confident we are OK for next turn.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Maniac1,_450_AD.zip
Charis
Realms Beyond
Well I must say you did a good job smacking down a huge number of Zulus. I do think if they had horses, the game would be over! 
It's unfortunately Zimbabwe was so well defended, war on our terms and time and a razed capital would have been SO much nicer than as their choice, but you're right, that city wasn't about to fall.
Important question - do Zulus have more than one saltpeter? If just one, we could ride right onto their salt next to Zimbabwe and pillage it that same turn. The Horsie would die, but it would mean an end to muskets.
Another key question - what can we hope to get from this war?
- Survival?? Is it THAT bad? Is this our goal?
- Keep our cities and let their slow units die painfully in our land as we cut their huge standing army way down to size?
- Gas them as best we can and take out one of their less well-defended cities to force good peace turns?
- Nothing less than the sight of Zimbabwe in ashes?!?!??! (I'm guessing this is laughable. If we couldn't do it via a suprise attack instantly, we'll not be able to do it now)
Final key question - alliances?
If I didn't miss something the war is early enough that the Zulus did not bring anyone into the war against us. That's nice I wouldn't expect it to last, unless by some odd happenstance they had near 0 gold. Who if anyone do we want to ally? As our most helpful potential allies have what - 4 cities max - would bringing them into war just spell their doom? (similarly do NOT sign Portugal up ) Would it be any help to have friends? Would it be much worse if the Zulus brought them in vs us? Very importantly, will we need to end this before 20 turns, or are our goals loftier and we're drawing a line in the sand, the Zulus must be brought down to size and now, expecting 20-30 turns of war?
Here's my two cents, though I hope to hear everyone chime in:
- If the Zulus will overwhelm us, we absolutely don't want to bring in an ally who would be eliminated. Rather we would want to continue to kill far more than we lost, and buy peace ASAP.
- If the Zulus have only that one saltpeter, pillage it, and take down this huge elephant NOW while they have no salt, no fast units, rather then let them reach Mil Tradition after they conquer an opponents horses. BTW, is their source(s) of iron exposed to pillage? With iron cut, they would be in for a WORLD of hurts!
- If we are in for a long haul, I would be prone to absorb as much of the units over the next few turns as we can, to avoid another civ being wiped off the planet. When the Zulu forces slow down, bring on a dogpile (except for Portugal) and hammer them mercilessly until Zimbabwe is no more.
- Fight an offensive-defensive war! Build mostly knights, let their slow units wander well into our territory, then cut them down. Do not carry the battle to their territory at all until they are gassed. Hole up and heal up.
BTW, careful on the shifting. Legitimate shifting of troops to save a crucial city that is in danger of falling is one thing. Pulling defenders in one irrelevant far away place merely to jerk around the AI is a huge no-no!! I couldn't quite tell how Skyfish was using the term in relation to what he was doing. Since he knows it's an issue I assume he's trying to point out "dont be abusive" rather than recommending it
Maniac <-- UP
Ridgelake <-- On deck
Charis <-- On call, wondering what mess we'll be in by then
Good luck Maniac -- you better get some rest for this, you're not gettin' skipped bud!!
Charis
It's unfortunately Zimbabwe was so well defended, war on our terms and time and a razed capital would have been SO much nicer than as their choice, but you're right, that city wasn't about to fall.
Important question - do Zulus have more than one saltpeter? If just one, we could ride right onto their salt next to Zimbabwe and pillage it that same turn. The Horsie would die, but it would mean an end to muskets.
Another key question - what can we hope to get from this war?
- Survival?? Is it THAT bad? Is this our goal?
- Keep our cities and let their slow units die painfully in our land as we cut their huge standing army way down to size?
- Gas them as best we can and take out one of their less well-defended cities to force good peace turns?
- Nothing less than the sight of Zimbabwe in ashes?!?!??! (I'm guessing this is laughable. If we couldn't do it via a suprise attack instantly, we'll not be able to do it now)
Final key question - alliances?
If I didn't miss something the war is early enough that the Zulus did not bring anyone into the war against us. That's nice
I wouldn't expect it to last, unless by some odd happenstance they had near 0 gold. Who if anyone do we want to ally? As our most helpful potential allies have what - 4 cities max - would bringing them into war just spell their doom? (similarly do NOT sign Portugal up ) Would it be any help to have friends? Would it be much worse if the Zulus brought them in vs us? Very importantly, will we need to end this before 20 turns, or are our goals loftier and we're drawing a line in the sand, the Zulus must be brought down to size and now, expecting 20-30 turns of war?Here's my two cents, though I hope to hear everyone chime in:
- If the Zulus will overwhelm us, we absolutely don't want to bring in an ally who would be eliminated. Rather we would want to continue to kill far more than we lost, and buy peace ASAP.
- If the Zulus have only that one saltpeter, pillage it, and take down this huge elephant NOW while they have no salt, no fast units, rather then let them reach Mil Tradition after they conquer an opponents horses. BTW, is their source(s) of iron exposed to pillage? With iron cut, they would be in for a WORLD of hurts!
- If we are in for a long haul, I would be prone to absorb as much of the units over the next few turns as we can, to avoid another civ being wiped off the planet. When the Zulu forces slow down, bring on a dogpile (except for Portugal) and hammer them mercilessly until Zimbabwe is no more.
- Fight an offensive-defensive war! Build mostly knights, let their slow units wander well into our territory, then cut them down. Do not carry the battle to their territory at all until they are gassed. Hole up and heal up.
BTW, careful on the shifting. Legitimate shifting of troops to save a crucial city that is in danger of falling is one thing. Pulling defenders in one irrelevant far away place merely to jerk around the AI is a huge no-no!! I couldn't quite tell how Skyfish was using the term in relation to what he was doing. Since he knows it's an issue I assume he's trying to point out "dont be abusive" rather than recommending it
Maniac <-- UP
Ridgelake <-- On deck
Charis <-- On call, wondering what mess we'll be in by then
Good luck Maniac -- you better get some rest for this, you're not gettin' skipped bud!!
Charis
IIRC, the Zulus have multiple salts. There is some in the former hittite area at least.
My thoughts are to keep fighting a defensive war to absorb their huge numbers. I think we should keep pushing them hard. My fear is that they will bring in the Incans. We will be in a world of hurt if we get a second front opened up. So I think that we should MA with the Incans. I hvae less worries about the Mongols as we are sending them both horses, iron, and luxes.
Knights will be our future. Keep building those. Mobility will be our key.
Please chop that forrest by Olla.
Skim workers from size 12 cities. In time, we can hope to get workers from razed Zulu towns.
Good luck, Maniac!
My thoughts are to keep fighting a defensive war to absorb their huge numbers. I think we should keep pushing them hard. My fear is that they will bring in the Incans. We will be in a world of hurt if we get a second front opened up. So I think that we should MA with the Incans. I hvae less worries about the Mongols as we are sending them both horses, iron, and luxes.
Knights will be our future. Keep building those. Mobility will be our key.
Please chop that forrest by Olla.
Skim workers from size 12 cities. In time, we can hope to get workers from razed Zulu towns.
Good luck, Maniac!
meldor
Deity
I will confirm that they do have multiple saltpeter. However, I don't knopw if they have more than the two and both may be pillagible with a fast unit.
1) Leader fish, get an asrmy asap. Pillage as much of zulu territory as possible.
2) The Incans have a lot of units they paraded through our lands on the way to hit the Babs. Get them in the war with Zululand on our side and let both get gased.
3) Instead of hitting the core Zulu cities, trim them at the edges and let the Babs and Incans settle those lands (and build back up).
Ideally, if we can trim the Zulu down to 10 or less cities and let the Babs/Incans get back up to 6-7 each, it will bode a lot better for us as the Zulu won't be as strong from here on out. Maybe even sneak a galley or two of units to raze some of the older Protugal cities and let Protugal replace them.
If we get an army pillage, pillage, pillage, especailly in the core, don't leave a single tile untouched.
1) Leader fish, get an asrmy asap. Pillage as much of zulu territory as possible.
2) The Incans have a lot of units they paraded through our lands on the way to hit the Babs. Get them in the war with Zululand on our side and let both get gased.
3) Instead of hitting the core Zulu cities, trim them at the edges and let the Babs and Incans settle those lands (and build back up).
Ideally, if we can trim the Zulu down to 10 or less cities and let the Babs/Incans get back up to 6-7 each, it will bode a lot better for us as the Zulu won't be as strong from here on out. Maybe even sneak a galley or two of units to raze some of the older Protugal cities and let Protugal replace them.
If we get an army pillage, pillage, pillage, especailly in the core, don't leave a single tile untouched.
ToddMarshall
Maniac - Stellar Wingman
Ok, I got it. It will be a couple days before I can play this one. Without looking at the save, here is my general plan.
1) Buy the Incans in. It seems like no lose, and if a doomsday scenareo arose, we have no rep to worry about trashing anymore and can make peace anyway.
2) Leader fish for a Pike army. Musket would be better but IIRC we only have seven muskets and no way to make more, so maybe one musket and 2 pikes would be good.
3) What meldor said in his #3. I have been contemplating this for ages anyhow.
4) IIRC the Zulu have like 4 saltpeter and also have the world monopoly on it. I'm much more concerned with Cavs showing up eventually than I am about muskets. The Zulu DO have some horses outsie some of their unexpanded conquested lands, so they WILL eventually get these. I'm actually praying we get Nationalisim for our freebie tech for a change. Usually I prefer to draw steam but not this time.
Edit: Despite saying it has data, I get an empty zip folder. Can you post the save again sky?
1) Buy the Incans in. It seems like no lose, and if a doomsday scenareo arose, we have no rep to worry about trashing anymore and can make peace anyway.
2) Leader fish for a Pike army. Musket would be better but IIRC we only have seven muskets and no way to make more, so maybe one musket and 2 pikes would be good.
3) What meldor said in his #3. I have been contemplating this for ages anyhow.
4) IIRC the Zulu have like 4 saltpeter and also have the world monopoly on it. I'm much more concerned with Cavs showing up eventually than I am about muskets. The Zulu DO have some horses outsie some of their unexpanded conquested lands, so they WILL eventually get these. I'm actually praying we get Nationalisim for our freebie tech for a change. Usually I prefer to draw steam but not this time.
Edit: Despite saying it has data, I get an empty zip folder. Can you post the save again sky?
meldor
Deity
Todd, the file is there you just need to open it with something besides windows default internal. WinZip will get you there.
I believe this is the better option !
Meldor' idea of trimming at the edges is a great one too.
Next turn a lux deal comes up with Incans IIRC Todd so you can use that opportunity to get an Alliance, we have to take the risk that the Zulus will shift their forces to the Incans and should be ready to do everything to save them, wonder city Cazco will be a magnet for the Zs.
And about puppet stringing Charis , yes you are right I was a bit quick with my report I wrongly used the term : what I mean is that the Zulus are targeting the weaker city out of Ollan and Almarikh, the 2 cities are quite far apart and with their slow units the Zulus take 3 or 4 turns to go from one to another.
Having said that the string has only gone once into action and only 1 direction, let me explain : the Zulus concentrated their forces in the South because our units were equally shared betweeen Ollan and Almarikh (peace time). When they declared, I took most of our forces to Almarikh (fast units) since they have slow units only and are in enemy territory, it s easy to leave some of our cities almost empty (only slow units) and still be in control, I also asked Incans to leave every turn to prevent back stabbing.
When the Zulus saw our forces in Almarikh, they partially retreated to go towards Ollan, thats where they are now, and so are our forces too. So I have only attracted them one way.
The exploit is literally letting an SoD move from right to left, left to right numerous times, having them " hang in there in a loop" : thats not at all whats been happening here, I just wanted to make that clear my use of "puppet string" was over-enthusiastic
Indeed ! My actions were not to purposely make them move to Ollan, it was just their reaction to my moving our troops to Almar that created this shift. Hopefully we can get them to move back to Almar now and then finish them off ( I already halved their force in the battle of Almar last time).
As Charis says we should not "rinse & repeat" this ad aeternam of course
As Charis says we should not "rinse & repeat" this ad aeternam of course
ToddMarshall
Maniac - Stellar Wingman
I have a problem. I have no net access till monday from home since Verizon screwed up my DSL somehow. I had to get permission from work just to access this site to post this . The game is going abosolutely wonderfully however. Can you say we are on the offensive . I HOPE I can borrow a friends access to get the save file up sunday.
. The game is going abosolutely wonderfully however. Can you say we are on the offensive . I HOPE I can borrow a friends access to get the save file up sunday.meldor
Deity
It has been eight days since a turn was taken on this one...are we going to consider it dead, hold our collective breath until The Maniac returns, or carry on in his stead and hope he returns soon?
meldor
Deity
Well, Todd hasn't posted since the 19th, 7 days ago. I know that this is his SG, but it is a little rough to have a turn take over a week with no word.
I certainly hope everything is OK with him.
I certainly hope everything is OK with him.
Yes, I hope all is ok as well. He did mention DSL problems, so hopefully its nothing more serious than that.
Well, If he does not post by tomorrow, I will play the turn. Unfortunately, Charis is on vacation for a few more days. So it will sit again unless we really move around the order.
Well, If he does not post by tomorrow, I will play the turn. Unfortunately, Charis is on vacation for a few more days. So it will sit again unless we really move around the order.
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