Manpower balance

[Polarman]

I have a problem with manpower balance right now. Take a lock:
Manpower from your capital (On grassland hill, river, next to coast, forest, jungle and mountain)
No Policies taken. All avaiable normal building that are neutral or provide manpower.
No building build that require improved anything.

Timeline: Man | Cost per Wonder
Pre-historic: 60 | 2
Ancient: 71 | 2
Classic: 75 | 4
Medieval: 81 | 7
Renaissance: 90 | 11
Industrial: 96 | 16

And then there are normal Buildings that need manpower (some even more than wonders), your Units including Workers, national wonders ...
Even with massive cityspamming you'll run out of manpower pretty easy later on. Because you can't demolish Wonders you are stuck with them.
This will lead to either hording your manpower because there is always something better to build in the next Timeline, never building anything, or you are stuck in Medieval / Renaissance with whatever wonders you have. Both are not fun. And Civ should be fun.

It'll get worse in later Timelines but they need much polish and are really alpha.

Just my 2 cents anyway.

 

[lasch]

I like mp as it is, but i´m only in ancient atm. I went to digital several time before, with other versions and had not much trouble either(apart from one playthrough). You just have to pick wich wonder you really want, that way the ai gets its share too. But, adjustments are indeed needed, this mod is far from finished and our feedback helps Gilga and gyogen to do this.
My ideas:
- wonders in conquered cities need much less mp, or you can just forget about conquering
strong enemies.
- with each new period, wonders from previous period have their mp need reduced, due to new technologies.
- cities can produce mp.

 

[gaborpesti]

But doesnt the occupied cities bring their infra? More city you have more mp you get

 

[lasch]

Yes, but its not enough if this city hold half a dozen wonders, and so do the next 3 cities. Happend to me once while i was taking the french heartland from them.

 

[Polarman]

Until Medieval manpower really isn't an issue. Then the requirement for Wonders really step up. (In Future ist actually 90). Good luck building/conquering more than 2-3 without crippling your military power. Until Digital there isn't any real progress in your manpower.
Also some normal buildings start to require lots of manpower. And depending on your strategic resource situation you need them or you can't upgrade your stuff. Ancient World Wonders are much more realistic to build than National Wonders from renaissance and up.
Its strange when its only possible to build Renaissance Stuff without crippling yourself when you reach mid Digital.

I'm also quite aware that a masive mod like this is realy hard to balance and I don't want them to delete that gamemechanic. I'm just giving feedback. Its just doesn't feel good for me from Renaicance to mid digital. All those wonders and buildings taunting me in my list. (literaly 100+) Without any real use because they are to costly. As a completionist I hate that . The boon you get by building them isn't worth it in most circumstances. And its a 'comitment' for life since you can't abandon them.

In my experiment i only have an increase of 60% in manpower until end of industrial. With better infrastructure and politics its going to be aroung 80-90% depending on your resources. But an 800% increase in cost. It just feel out of scale.

 

[lasch]

In that case they surely will put out a temporary fix, like telling us wich line in what file to change.

 

[senadin]

This needs to be adjusted, too many things need manpower and that's not counting the about 20-30 wonders that are just sitting there. AI isnt building any and yes i am picky about which one i build but still. Most troops also need manpower. Maybe some wonder shouldnt need manpower or something. Not only that but it forces me to pick my civics based on manpower. I am not thinking, ohh i am gona try to play a fascist country this turn around. The manpower is dictating which civics i am gona pick.... so i can get more manpower....

 

[Gilgamesch]

The manpower is dictating which civics i am gona pick.... so i can get more manpower....

Not really, you can play with a non agressiv civ, and focus on policies and improvements and you get enough Manpower.
Sure its not complete balanced yet, but there are so many ways to get additional MP in so much different ways.

I guess the pedia would also need a big update so that everybody can see the ways how you can create MP.

Anyway all MP settings are listed in the related folders and can be altered in XML.

 

[senadin]

I guess i am making it works, this mod does have tons of wonders and i guess seeing all those wonders and i cant build them all. The ones that i DO want, i havent had any issues getting them.

On an unrelated note, is there a way to scroll thru the technology tree? I only see the first ones when i open the tree in a given era.

I ran into an issue where i am actually building rifleman, i have steel but i cant even make canon because i somewhow dont have weaponsmith.... yet i am quite sure i build one or two in a specific ton.... Something is fishy there. Ill have to investigate more.

otherwise, i love the mod!

 

[senadin]

Yes it is indeed the case. It can only be built as a Wonder. Not as a weaponsmith building.