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Many Leaders Game 4 - The Cultured Monarch

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by Ozbenno, Nov 6, 2007.

  1. Ozbenno

    Ozbenno Fly Fly Away Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    Welcome to the fourth installment of the Many Leaders Game (thanks mice ;)).

    The premise is simple. Everyone plays from the same starting save but as different leaders. After TriviAl's dominating win in Many Leaders Game 3, we're all attempting a cultural win.

    We report our games every 50 turns. At the end of each round I'll produce some sort of data analysis to try and compare the games.

    So jump in and grab a leader. Only one player per leader as well and try and have a different leader to previous games.

    Reporting:

    Try and treat it like a normal SG game. Give as much info as posible about your tactics, plans etc. Screenshots are good as well. In the first round try and give some insight as to why you chose your leader and your strategy for winning the game.

    Don't publish half or incomplete reports and then edit later. Wait until you're finished and publish it all, even if you're late.

    All reports to be enclosed in spoiler tags.

    Use your checking in post to create a series of links to your game as it progresses. I will then create a link to all these posts. It makes it easy for everyone to follow a single game, rather than the round by round games.

    The timeframe for each round is decided once 75% of people (12/16) have published their reports. At this stage I'll produce whatever analysis grabs my fancy and the spiffy new culture graph I have in mind ;). Don't worry about being late, I'll go back and update the graph as the remaining games come in. There is no set deadline, if you end up a week behind, just keep going and you'll still be included.

    If time permits, try and load the saves of others to try and get a feel for what they are doing. Feel free to comment and give advise on other people's games or even ask advise on what you should be doing.

    Game:

    Map: Hemispheres (continent size: varied, islands size: islands, continents: 2)
    Level: Monarch
    Size: Standard
    Speed: Normal
    Leader: ? up to you.

    Starting Position:



    Roster:

    1. Zargon - Mansu Musa - 1645AD Cultural Victory
    2. TriviAl - Ragnar - 1680AD Cultural Victory
    3. Ozbenno - Huayana Capac - 1685AD Cultural Victory
    4. Kodii - Gandhi - 1745 Cultural Victory
    4. pawelo - Willem van Oranje - 1745AD Cultural Victory
    6. Ralph_Jackson - Ramses II - 1760AD Cultural Victory
    7. Swiss Pauli - Suleiman - 1795AD Cultural Victory
    8. GreyFox - Wang Kon - 1808AD Cultural Victory
    9. Ad Hoc - Elizabeth - 1856AD Cultural Victory
    10. azaris - Montezuma - 1909AD Cultural Victory
    11. yena - Sitting Bull - 1932AD Cultural Victory
    12. Bindamel - Pericles - 1955AD Cultural Victory
    13. Imhotep - Charles de Gaulle - 1961AD Cultural Victory
    14. pholkhero - Augustus Caesar - 1886 Retired
    njorls - Saladin
    r_rolo1 - Qin Shi Huang


    The roster is closed, I'll post a starting position Thursday night, have the saves ready for Friday and let the cultured hordes out of the bag for the weekend..

    So on with the show, let's show the world how kulchad we are :crazyeye:
     
  2. Ozbenno

    Ozbenno Fly Fly Away Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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  3. Ozbenno

    Ozbenno Fly Fly Away Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    First round games (4000BC - 2000BC) can be found here. Analysis can be found here.
    Second round games (2000BC - 375BC) can be found here. Analysis can be found here.
    Third round games (375BC - 800AD) can be found here. Analysis can be found here.
    Fourth round games (800AD - 1300AD) can be found here. Analysis can be found here.
    Final Round games (1300AD onwards) can be found here.

    In addition, you can follow one person's game through from start to completion by following the links found in their sign-up post on the first or second page of this thread.
     
  4. Ozbenno

    Ozbenno Fly Fly Away Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    Here are some links to various guides about cultural wins. Some are based on vanilla (and one on Deity) so aren't necessarily 100% relevant but should give a good idea of the basics. One discusses cultural aspects of corporations.

    The Beginners Crash Guide To Cultural Victory

    Cultural Victory: Notes and Tips

    Godotnut's Guide to Totally Peaceful Deity Cultural Victory

    The Fantastic Four: Corporate Culture Powerhouse

    Ozbenno's Probably Useless "Guide" to Culture - please correct and add to

    The first thing to consider really is how do you get culture? Basically it comes from five sources. Buildings, religion, great people/specialists, the culture slider and the creative trait. Conceivably it would be possible to win using just one or two of these sources but realistically you'll have to use all the first four.

    Buildings:

    The following buildings give you culture: Academy (4), Monastery (2), Temple (1), Castle (1), Theatre (3), Library (2), Madrassa (Arabian UB/library) (4), Military Academy (3), Monument (1), Odeon (Greek UB/colosseum) (3), Universaity (3), Terrace (Inca UB/granary) (2).

    The following buildings give cultural bonuses: Broadcast Tower (50%), Cathedrals (50%), Pavillion (Chinese UB/theatre) (25%), Stele (Etiopian UB/monument) (25%) and Hermitage (100%). The World Wonders Broadway, Hollywood and Rock N Roll all give 50% culture bonuses.

    Finally, virtually all wonders (world and national) give large amounts of culture. Various strategies will place more importance on various wonders but one everyone should be trying for is the Sistine Chapel, which gives +2 culture/specialist and +5 culture/state religion building (this also doubles after 1000 years).

    In addition, a building doubles its culture output if it has been in existence for 1000 years.

    Corporate headquarters (and some corporations) give culture if they are present in your cities.

    Obviously, buildings are going to play a part in your cities going legendary. You should look at having your "big 3" cities have as many of the above as you can build.

    Some traits give a 50% production boost of these buildings, spritual (temples), creative (library, theatre), philosophical (university), protective (castle) and industrious (all wonders).

    Religion:

    If you have adopted a state religion each city you own with that religion gets 1 culture, the holy city gets 5. You get no culture from having any non-state religion (even holy cities), except if you build the religious buildings (temples etc).

    If you have no state religion, all religions in a city get 1 culture (eg if you have three religions in a city you'll get 3 culture), again all holy cities get 5.

    The culture you get from religion itself is not great but you'll need to spread as many religions around all your cities to be able to build Cathedrals.

    No particular trait gives you an advantage here but leaders that start with Mysticism obviously have a greater chance to found one of Buddhism/Hinduism.

    Great People/Specialists:

    Obviously artists are the big way to get culture here. Employing an artist specialist gives 4 culture and settling a Great Artist 12 culture. Bombing a Great Artist gives 4000 culture (thanks pawelo).

    However, indirectly other Great People can help you along the way. A Great Scientist can found an Academy (worth 4 culture). A Great Engineer can give you a needed wonder that will give culture. A Great Prophet can found a shrine (culture and gold). A Great Merchant can go on a trade mission, allowing you to up the culture/research slider. A Great Military Instructor can found a Military Academy (3 culture).

    The Sistine Chapel gives 2 culture per specialist employed (this includes settled Great people).

    The two traits that can give you an advantage here are Philosophical (generate Great People faster) and Industrious (can build wonders faster, thus produce Great People faster).

    The first civilization to discover Music gets a free Great Artist, so that's a tech to aim for (it also enables Sistine Chapel).

    Culture Slider:

    The Culture Slider is unlocked when you discover Drama.

    Each turn your empire amasses (hopefully) a whole lot of gold (from working tiles, employing specialists, trade routes, shrines etc). This is your GNP. You can allocate a percentage of your GNP to generating culture. For example, if your city produces 10 gold and your culture slider is at 20%, you are producing 2 culture.

    This is of crucial importance in your 3 "legendary cities" if you're running a cottage economy, you should have all available tiles cottaged and being worked as early as possible, so that by the time you are ramping up your culture slider, they are all towns.

    If you're running a specialist economy, your culture will mainly be produced by artists rather than the culture slider but at some stage you will still want to ramp up the slider to give you a small boost.

    The trait that gives you the big bonus here is financial, +1gold on all your commerce tiles (with multipliers) is a big boost. Organised also helps as it lowers your expenses and allows running the culture slider higher than otherwise.

    Creative Trait:

    Gives you 2 culture in all your cities. As this is base culture it is affected by all culture multipliers.

    So there you go. You know how to build culture. How you go about using this to win a cultural victory, well that's what we're all about to find out.

    [Thanks r_rolo1, njorls and pawelo for your additions/corrections]
     
  5. Ozbenno

    Ozbenno Fly Fly Away Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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  6. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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  7. Kodii

    Kodii Ka ICE

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  8. yena

    yena Chieftain

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    Reserved for the chronicles of Sitting Bull.

    Round 1: here
    Round 2: here
    Round 3: here
    Round 4: here
    Final round: here
     
  9. njorls

    njorls Chieftain

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  10. Bindamel

    Bindamel Call me Bindy - mel

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  11. pholkhero

    pholkhero Deviant Mind

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    sir not-appearing-in-this-film? :lol:

    Reserved for the august Augustus.
     
  12. pawelo

    pawelo Chieftain

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    Reserved for cultural trials and errors of Willem van Oranje :king:

    Episode 1 - "Birth" - 4000BC - 2000BC
    Episode 2 - "Expansion" - 2000BC - 375BC
    Episode 3 - "Consolidation" - 375BC - 800AD
    Episode 4 - "Party" - 800AD - 1300AD
    Episode 5 - "Build-up" - 1300AD - 1600AD
    Episode 6 - "Touchdown" - 1600AD - 1745AD


    --------
    Oz, the Culture Bomb depends on the game speed. On standard it will hand you +4000 :culture:
    edit 2:
    Valuable (?;)) additions to Oz's guide :
    - Techs - Music gives 1 free Artist, Drama lets you play with the slider
    - Civics - Free Speech doubles culture output of each city
    - Buildings - any National Wonder provides +4 :culture: , Hermitage doubles culture output of the city, monasteries provide culture only before Scientific Method
    - Great Wonders culture-wise - in addition to the Sistine - Hollywood, Broadway, Rock&Roll - each one gives +50% :culture: in the city where it's built; Eiffel Tower - gives free Broadcast Tower in each city - +50% :culture: everywhere
    - Corporations - all corporate HQ provide +2 :culture: ; Civilized Jewellers : 4 :culture: for each consumed Gem, Gold, Silver, Creative Constructions : 3 :culture: for each consumed Aluminium, Copper, Iron, Marble, Stone, Sid's Sushi : 2 :culture: for each Clam, Crab, Fish & Rice.
     
  13. GreyFox

    GreyFox Make it so ...

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    Reserved for God-Knows-Who .... okay, maybe not God, but the Permanently-Confused Birdie.

    This post is reserved for my Cultured Huge Wang ;)

    Let all beware ... Fox is coming after you with his Wang and rants ...

    wait, this is a SP ... I will be whipping myself :confused:


    Chronicles of the Cultural Ascension of My Wang
     
  14. azaris

    azaris Chieftain

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    Reserved for the glorious Moctezuma II, the angry ruler of the Valley of Mexico, who shall feast the god Huitzilopochtli in the blood of his sacrifices and darken the world under his mighty foot... oh wait, this was a cultural victory. Nevermind.

    4000 BC - 2000 BC The Aztecs miss out on religion and find a lot of jungle and some rival civs.
    2000 BC - 375 BC Japan feels the wrath of Jaguar warriors.
    375 BC - 800 AD Expansion of the empire and beginning of a cultural revolution.
    800 AD - 1300 AD The continent is united under the Apostolic Palace.
    1300 AD - 1910 AD Second Aztec-Japanese War expands the Aztec Empire and the world is plunged into conflict.
     
  15. Ad Hoc

    Ad Hoc Chieftain

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    Reserved for Cate Blanchett.... well i can wish can't i?

    :lol:
     
  16. TriviAl

    TriviAl Chieftain

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    Reserved for Ragnar and his Crushing of Puny Culture!

    PS - love the guide - thanks Oz!
     
  17. Swiss Pauli

    Swiss Pauli Chieftain

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    Reserved for my glorious leader...Suleiman the Magnificent
    Pre-game thoughts:
    Spoiler :
    Why Suleiman? Not played him before and I like Philo as a culture trait because of its flexibility. Great people can do great things (natch) and more of them is always welcome. IMP isn't so hot, but it's easy to put off expansion (wrongly) for Wonder chasing, so cheap Settlers will encourage me to REX. Finally, I think a peaceful (i.e. non-aggresive) win is always possible on Monarch if one plays well, so I'm not planning to fight.

    The long-term strategy revolves around the Three Legends. Istanbul has OK food, good hammers (esp. if there’s metal in that plains hill), but not great commerce (no grass river tiles), so it seems set to be a Wonder pump. Assuming I settle city 2 as indicated, this location has good food, great commerce and some hammers, so it looks like a gold city (research pump switching to culture late game). There’s also a teo tile overlap with Istanbul which I like in the early game. My Third Legend tends to be my Artist farm, so I’m looking for a high food site: west of the pigs just outside Istanbul could be interesting, as could the area SW of the corn.

    Early research will be mainly worker techs: Mining – Fishing – BW - AH. Then up the religious path: Myst – Medi – Priest for Oracle in Istanbul. During Oracle construction we’ll learn Writing (and Pottery beforehand to discount Writing if time constraints allow) in order to bag Confucianism from CoL. Pyramids would be nice (REP to boost return on artists) but won’t be attempted without Stone. Masonry and Mathematics are required for Hammams. Then up the top of the tree to Music.

    Modest Beginnings: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6134495&postcount=47

    Finding our Feet: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6142765&postcount=90

    Picking up the Pace: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6158738&postcount=146

    Cooking with Gas: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6171141&postcount=202
     
  18. Ralph_Jackson

    Ralph_Jackson Chieftain

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    The Tales of Rameses the Culture Vulture

    note reveals iron so if you haven't researched IW avoid

    Spoiler :
    So Rameses.

    Well he is a pretty good leader for Culture (any industrious leader is), not up there with the true Powerhouses which I feel are
    I) China (in particular Qin) with their superb UB for Culture &
    2) Elizabeth of course as financial / philosophical is a wicked combination for culture..

    So anyway onto the start. From Rameses perspective its not great..

    No Stone Marble within easy reach for wonders
    Nothing for a worker to do with Wheel / Agriculture as starting techs..

    So move the warrior and as always find it doesn’t resolve the settle in place or Plains Hill dilemma. In the end go for the Plains hill as even with the turns delay the extra hammer gets the first work boat out earlier. However suspect either option was Ok but Plains Hill slightly stronger. The more I play the more I am prepared to lose a single turn to get a plains hill

    So what’s the initial plan.

    Well Fairly obvious initial start is research fishing, build a warrior (nothing for a worker to do) and then build 1 or 2 workboats whilst our initial warrior explores..

    Anyway exploring warrior gets lucky in popping a tech from the Hut to the E of our starting position and obviously finds the absolutely corking second city site with Gems and Dyes.


    Now this site defines the tech path as it’s only good if we prioritise Iron working so after fishing set off down the Bronze Working -> Iron Working path.

    Nothing else dramatic happens

    At the end of turn things are progressing nicely with second city about to become very productive and in the short term pump another settler (library is a fill in build whilst it grows) who will hopefully find a good spot to the east further up the river.

    This will close off the Peninsula which we will use for fill in cities (marginal terrain but has Marble, Gold and Iron). These fill in cities are only needed to build required temples to unlock cathedrals, hook up key resources, pump units / workers to Designated legendary cities concentrate on what they need (there hammers shouldn’t go into units / workers / non culture buildings if it can be avoided)g the research strain

    Research will probably go Masonry - pottery - COL beeline

    Capital will be my wonder farm going for pyramids (chopped) next and popping GP as required (it will get Nat Epic and pop 1 scientist then mainly artists)
    2nd City will be my commerce city taking the research strain
    3rd City TBD
    Key next step is getting Buddhism to spread from Roosevelt a.s.a.p. (workers will connect him a.s.a.p)

    What wont I do?

    No Oracle (Prophets are a poor GP for Culture games, making this IMHO a wonder to be avoided), if I want Confucianism it will be hand researched.
    Build after the pyramids any non Great Artist wonder
    Fight a war I can avoid, yes we are aiming for peaceful culture victory





    Round 2 Report
     

    Attached Files:

  19. Ozbenno

    Ozbenno Fly Fly Away Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    OK, I can finalise this now.

    There was a huge response to the spare spots in the game and I couldn't accomodate eveyone who asked for a spot :cry:. Sorry to those who missed out, you're on the shortlist for next time (or if there is an early casualty here).

    Hopefully have a starting position out tonight and saves tomorrow.
     
  20. Zargon

    Zargon Chieftain

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