Map Making

Azmorg

Bretwalda
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Mar 15, 2003
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Ok, so I'm reading a thread about map making in this forum that got a bump from 02 to 05, and then again to now. With out wanting to cast aspersions on the originator of the aforementioned thread, it seems to me that the process described is somewhat involved.

So, I offer my solution to replicating geography onto the isometric grid system that Civ uses.

Attached is a simple to use Excel spreadsheet that has the same isometric grid on it. It is pritty near identical to Civ's regarding the ratio of highth to width.

What I do is print an image of what I'm wanting to map out, and then re-print the grid over the image. Then you just start a some point and work from that by counting grid diamonds; 1 over, 2 up; 3 down, 4 across; etc.

This gets you a decent map.

So try it. Let me know what you think.

View attachment Map Grid.zip
 
What I do is print an image of what I'm wanting to map out, and then re-print the grid over the image.
A similar technique I've used is to get a pad, or sheets, of engineer's ruled graph paper ( the kind with the little tiny squares, not the big 1/4 inch squares). Then I scale the map image I want 200% vertically, while keeping the horizontal 100%. Now the squares on the print out transfer 1=>1 to the Civ tiles. That's how I made the Rise of Asia map, for example.
 
Heem, what size of sheet do you print it? I could print it on an A3 page, but it would be very comlicated -and expensive, too.
 
I use 8 1/2 by 11 inch; not sure of the English equivalent. I left out the important detail that I rotate the image to be printed 45°, thus the need for the vertical scaling, to match the game's tile shape. The advantage of this method is that I can use any scanned or existing image and scale it prior to printing to achieve a known number of tiles. The graph paper I use gives about 80 tiles across at the longest point. Graph paper is more expensive than blank paper, but I think the advantages are worth a little extra expense.

For the Rise of Asia I printed across 9 sheets of paper; a lot of that was blank space (white corners after rotation). The only complicated part is keeping track of the multiple pages. I do a "thumbnail" of the whole image on a single sheet and number the sections to match the individual pages. The graph paper I use has larger divisions of 10 squares; this makes keeping track of where I am simpler. I also "dot" the squares as I place major landmarks (tips of penninsulas, etc.) in the editor.

I like having the paper in hand, because I can make annotations as I go, such as tile coordinates, terrain ideas, and trace out features such as rivers that may not be apparent on the original map. A lot of this brainstorming can be done away from the computer, like when I'm on a bus, or at the doctor's waiting room.

IMHO this method is far less complicated than reworking a 256 or million color palette into one useable by BMPtoBIC, and trying to deal with a computer's decisions about individual pixels as the image is scaled. Witness the difference between my RoA map, well received, and the MesoAmerica map, done with BMPtoBIC and MapTweaker, still needing rework, a smaller map and taking more hours of work to reach equivalent value.
 
8 1/2 x 11 inches is what is called "letter" size paper here in Argentina.
Since I´m not a native English speaker (still, a fairly good one, under the circumstances) what is "graph paper"?
 
what is "graph paper"?
a pad, or sheets, of engineer's ruled graph paper ( the kind with the little tiny squares, not the big 1/4 inch squares).
Paper, usually letter size, that is covered with little squares (blue or green are the most common). It's used for making mathematical graphs, etc. I use the kind that has 10 squares per inch (it also comes in 4, 5, & 8 per inch). Sometimes it's called engineer's rule in American stores. Here's a link to the type I use on Amazon.com; it can be found in most office supply stores or college type book stores. Because it's expensive I try to shop around until I find some on sale.
 
Don´t worry too much about the American store name, ´cos I live in Argentina, and all names are in Spanish. I think what you mean is "papel milimetrado", according to what wikipedia says graph paper is.
Papel milimetrado has little squares of 1 mm (millimetres) , then of 5 mm and 10 mm. I´m not sure there is 8 1/2 X 11" size around in this country, but I could try or, if not, paste it onto a page that size. How should I rotate the map? It was made as an illustration cover for a brochure for the Ermitage exhibition in Amsterdam about Persia. I could send you an image, though, by next week.
 
Don´t worry too much about the American store name, ´cos I live in Argentina, and all names are in Spanish. I think what you mean is "papel milimetrado", according to what wikipedia says graph paper is.
Papel milimetrado has little squares of 1 mm (millimetres) , then of 5 mm and 10 mm. I´m not sure there is 8 1/2 X 11" size around in this country, but I could try or, if not, paste it onto a page that size. How should I rotate the map? It was made as an illustration cover for a brochure for the Ermitage exhibition in Amsterdam about Persia. I could send you an image, though, by next week.
I think you found the same kind of paper, it's just metric instead of inches. The size of the paper doesn't matter, as long as it will fit in your printer. The size of the squares doesn't matter much either, as long as you realize one square on the paper = one tile on the map in the editor, regardless of how big the squares are. I just measured the paper I use & the squares are 2 mm X 2 mm. I use small squares so my map prints on a minimum of pages.

These are the steps:

1) Find the image you want to make into a map. Either it is already a computer file (like one of the maps to be found on Wikipedia, or the National Geographic MapMachine), or you will need to scan it into a computer file that you can edit in a graphics program and then print. At this point the size of the image is not too important, as long as it has enough detail to satisfy you.

2) Decide the size you want the map to be in Civ (like 100 tiles across).
Measure how far across one square on your paper is on the diagonal (\ not _). It's ok to round off to the nearest whole number (say 2 mm, not 2.05 mm for example)

3) Multiply that by how many tiles across you want your map to be. (Just as an example, if my paper has squares 2 mm on the diagonal and I want my map to end up 100 tiles across, then 2 x 100 = 200 mm.)

4) In your graphics program scale the map image <=> to be the same size as the number you just came up with. Be sure to keep the vertical dimension in proportion for now.

5) At this point you have a choice to make. If you look at a map in the game you will see that the tiles look like diamonds <> while on your paper you have squares [ ]. Also, the tiles in game are not just rotated squares, they are flatter from top to bottom than from side to side. I like the actual game map to match the original image, like this:
My Map

Satellite Image

Other people feel it is more correct for the minimap to match, for reasons to do the mathematics of map projection; in this case the map in game would look squeezed flat, but the proportions will be mathematically correct in terms of how far across the map the units move per turn. It is mostly a matter of taste, since we are not trying to make maps that people will navigate by in the real world.
A) If you are like me, at this point scale your image vertically 200% but be sure to keep horizontal 100%. The image will become twice as tall, but not change width.
B) If you want to keep the minimap as the one that "looks" correct, as some other people do, then skip this step.

6) Now rotate your image 45° in the graphics program. Which direction doesn't matter. The rotation will mean that one of the corners of the squares will point to the top of your image when you print. This orients the map to match the tile pattern in the editor.

7) Print.
Your map will probably print out across several sheets. You may wish to cut and paste them into one large map. I find it easier to work at the computer with the individual sheets; I make a master page from thumbnails, and print it on one sheet of plain paper, that looks like this:

then I number each of the sheets and label the master page to match, so I always know where I'm at, relative to the whole map.

Now you've got on paper something that matches square for square what you want in the editor. As you create the map in the editor, you can decide if islands need to be adjusted, where the edge of deserts should be, etc. Also, there is no need to correct a computer program's interpretation of a squashed down to 100 pixel by 100 pixel image, that will distort coast lines, exaggerate or shrink the size of lakes, shift mountain ranges, etc.

More effort to set up, but so much easier in the editor. When I made the Rise of Asia map, I just did the coast lines first, and filled in the land, all with plains terrain. That was just to see that the basic shape of my map was what I wanted. Then I went back and changed terrain as I needed.

Hope this explanation helps.

PS: I forgot to mention that depending on how dark the lines on your paper are you may find it useful to "fade" or "lighten" the image before printing, so the lines show through clearly.

PPS: I just noticed the links at the bottom of the wikipedia page to free programs to print graph paper. So you could print first the grid onto a plain page, and then run the paper through again to print your map. Or else find a way to superimpose the grid in your graphics program and then print once.
 
I´ll try those programs you mentioned, still, until Monday I can´t try because I can´t scan it where I am now.
but since I´m currently in posession of a printer I can try printing the graph paper during the weekend. I´ll let you know.
 
Heem, what size of sheet do you print it? I could print it on an A3 page, but it would be very comlicated -and expensive, too.

A4 is very close to the 8 1/2 X 11.
 
PPS: I just noticed the links at the bottom of the wikipedia page to free programs to print graph paper. So you could print first the grid onto a plain page, and then run the paper through again to print your map. Or else find a way to superimpose the grid in your graphics program and then print once.

Or you could, ahem,:smug: use the grid I made which is attached in the first post of this thread.
 
Or you could, ahem,:smug: use the grid I made which is attached in the first post of this thread.
Some practical questions, for which I hope you'll post directions:
How large is your grid (in terms of tiles)?
How would one go about using it for larger maps (ie. how difficult would it be to align copies of the grid next to each other on a larger image)?
How does one use it without owning Office or Excel? Or on a Mac?
 
How large is your grid (in terms of tiles)?
The grid itself is in Portrait orientation and goes from coordinate 0,0 to coordinate 100,300. So the isometric tiles represented on my grid are quite small which allows you to achieve a high degree of detail when making your map.

How would one go about using it for larger maps (ie. how difficult would it be to align copies of the grid next to each other on a larger image)?
You would just print the image on multiple pages. The grid aligns itself from one page to the next very nicely. There is a half-tile overlap.

How does one use it without owning Office or Excel?
Well, that might be problematic. I'm not sure. I would think that most other similar programs would open the file?

Are there really people out there who don't have Excel?

Or on a Mac?
A Mac should open the file, at least a newer Mac.
 
The grid itself is in Portrait orientation and goes from coordinate 0,0 to coordinate 100,300. So the isometric tiles represented on my grid are quite small which allows you to achieve a high degree of detail when making your map.
That's a pretty good level of detail. The graph paper is 80x100.
You would just print the image on multiple pages. The grid aligns itself from one page to the next very nicely. There is a half-tile overlap.
You suggested overlaying the grid on the map. If I needed to do more than one, it would take some careful work to align the edges of the grid copies, but definitely doable.
Well, that might be problematic. I'm not sure. I would think that most other similar programs would open the file?

Are there really people out there who don't have Excel?
Some of us try really hard to avoid MicroSerfdom.
A Mac should open the file, at least a newer Mac.
I think your solution is a good one, and I could probably open the file with Appleworks, or OpenOffice on my PC. The main problem I have is that I don't understand how to overlay an Excel spreadsheet onto a gif, jpeg, etc.
 
I think your solution is a good one, and I could probably open the file with Appleworks, or OpenOffice on my PC. The main problem I have is that I don't understand how to overlay an Excel spreadsheet onto a gif, jpeg, etc.
Try setting the gif or jpeg image as the background. For anyone that has Photoshop I made the civ3 grid pattern (diamonds) as a pattern. Now all you have to do is open the map picture and use layer styles overlay pattern. You can also scale the pattern which is very handy.
 

Attachments

  • Civ Grid.zip
    1.3 KB · Views: 160
The easiest way is to do it is just like you do with yours.
Print the graphic in a lighter shade of grey (sounds like the lyric to a song), then print the grid over the image. Voila, you're good to go.
 
This is great! We've got multiple solutions for people with different set ups. In my own case:

@BadKarma: I don't have Photoshop. On my PC I've got Paint Shop Pro 7. On my Mac I've got GraphicConverter, which doesn't recognize the .pat, but can handle any of these formats.

@Azmorg: I found I can open the spreadsheet with AppleWorks on my Mac. It opens as a blank spreadsheet with rectangular cells. I think you set up a spreadsheet that emulates graph paper (square cells, black border) - another way to achieve what BadKarma & I were suggesting. If thats the idea, I can adjust the cells, and the same solution should be available with any spreadsheet program.

Found a site that lets me make a diamond patterned sheet as a pdf. Then I can figure out how to convert it to a graphics form I can use (probably via a screen shot to jpeg, then set the background to transparent in my graphics program).
 
Found a site that lets me make a diamond patterned sheet as a pdf. Then I can figure out how to convert it to a graphics form I can use (probably via a screen shot to jpeg, then set the background to transparent in my graphics program).
I found the site last night on the wikipedia article I mentioned but was too lazy to post it since it was already one in the morning. Still, I managed to test it and it makes a very good print.
I found a place not so far from my home -25 minutes by bus, but I have to go near there at least once a week anyway, so no harm done- where they print things on both A4 and A3 sized paper, so I can do a map on one or two A3 pages and then take it there and had it print correctly. They also sell graph paper of those same sizes. Anyway, I think I´ll just make an A3-size image and have it printed on that size.
 
I have a copy of one of the maps I might use:
Spoiler :

EDIT: Now that I think of it, it´s rather too big for here, so I´ll put it inside a spoiler.
I´ll have to work out how large I´ll make the diamonds on that online program.
 
That would make for a very nice map.
 
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