Map Resources Ideas and Discussion

[Loffas]

I am not sure if this is the right thread/forum for this isue...
But i´ve always thought that the reason to build castles aren´t big enough. One of the big "real" reasons for them was to store taxes, well food and other resource, that was brought in at the same season of the year. Over a long period of time in alot of places even collecting taxes, food, was difficult without a castle to store all the food in. And give the peasants a "legitimet" reason for the taxes.
sometimes the food was delivered however, but the still needed to be a castle to store and protect it it all.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Look: Flood plains on a salt flat, not devoid of life:

Well we do have Flamingos spawn on salt flats BTW.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Now started to look at the bonus changes.

Mammoth, Bison, Rabbits and Cows only on hills?

There is a problem with Seals and Walrus, they need to be on the coast. Your definition has them appearing almost anywhere. Currently there is post map generation python that places them on single plot islands from 65 degrees South to 65 degrees North. With Walruses only north of 65 degrees North.

edit with the animals like Llama we have a post map generation process that makes them only appear in the area that the animal can spawn. Eventually we will do something better. This means that I have not set the only on one continent tag for them. Animal resources in the wrong place get replaced by ones that belong there eg Llama resource is (will be) replaced by Bison in North America, Deer in Asia, Europe and Africa and Kangaroos in Oceania.

 

[0100010]

Now started to look at the bonus changes.

Mammoth, Bison, Rabbits and Cows only on hills?

Not looking at the file right now, but I do believe <bHills/> allow a resource to be placed on hills also not exclusively on hills. (compare against other resources that are on both hills and flatlands) Before they were only showing up on flatlands. IMO they should be able to appear on both.

There is a problem with Seals and Walrus, they need to be on the coast. Your definition has them appearing almost anywhere. Currently there is post map generation python that places them on single plot islands from 65 degrees South to 65 degrees North. With Walruses only north of 65 degrees North.

They may be left over from a desire for a <bRequiresCoast/> tag. Map script still puts them in the right spot, but does the map script also allow them in the expanded location even if still on the coast? I've never seen a seal/walrus show up under a rock form.

Seal should have a far larger latitude range, I've seen them while scuba diving in Hawaii. The Galapagos was some too, and so on...

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I am making most of the changes you have suggested as I go. The ones I am not sure of or I have to think on will take longer. Also the more we can get out of the Python code and back into the XML the better. Which reminds me I should remove the cactus placement out of the python if it works now, at one stage it was not placing cactus at all.

I must also remove FEATURE_STORM from all bonuses it is not a feature placed at map creation but by an event, I think.

Seal should have a far larger latitude range, I've seen them while scuba diving in Hawaii. The Galapagos was some too, and so on...

I was under the impression this was between 65S and 65N

edit

Not looking at the file right now, but I do believe <bHills/> allow a resource to be placed on hills also not exclusively on hills. (compare against other resources that are on both hills and flatlands) Before they were only showing up on flatlands. IMO they should be able to appear on both.

which means when bHills = 1 then bFlatlands must be 0.

 

[0100010]

Does anyone still use storms? I hate the damn things, I've always selected no storms from the BUG options or whatever t was in the past, but I prefer them to not ever be generated in the first place.

But the reason I added storms to the terrainfeature set is that I never saw a map with marine bonus underneath a storm before.

Do we have an idea of how often people actually keep them vs. turning them off?


Even if those ranges are above/below 65 latitude N/S, I think seals cross the equator often enough.

Fix the hills/flatlands value to whatever allows both then, probably just typos on my part.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I am testing your settings for walrus, seal and cactus. All three were being done post map generation.

edit with just your X<L settings and no python I don't get any of the three! I'll put the new bonuses file and python up. You seem to have a better understanding of the XML than me so maybe you can get those three working. If not I'll put the python back the way it was.

 

[0100010]

Remember that when you get to other bonus they were assuming more changes to the FeatureInfo than you kept (mostly in relation to flood plains)

Other bonuses might require more expansion, such as adding in support for some bonuses appearing on Ancient forest on scrub since you wanted to keep that combo.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

But cactus is a feature and it is not appearing at all!

 

[0100010]

Attach your modified/disabled post-map python script, I'll try to replicate.


We might need to tweak the iAppearance value on Cactus. I see a 0 at present, compare that to nearly all of the additional custom C2C features, which have some iApearance value.

Which features besides Cactus are added or tweaked in the post map script?

What size maps are you generating and which of the standard map script were you using?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I have put it all on the SVN.

The script still does

the coast and ocean split into tropical, temperate and polar

Goody islands, kelp and reefs.​

It used to add the cactus feature and the seal and walrus bonuses.

 

[platyping]

Yes it would be nice to reorder the bonuses to make it easier to find them in world builder. The order presented is the order they appear in the bonus file followed by the order loaded from the modules files.

I use the woc processes that SO removed to separate the one file into a file for each bonus. It makes reordering easier even if it does add in all the woc dependencies.

Awesome enough?

Spoiler :

 

[0100010]

I set the <iAppearance/> value for KAKTUS to 10000, and generated a huge map on C2C_PlanetGenerator_0_68, very low huminty, Extremely hot, one big continent low ocean , thus lots and lots of desert...

100% of scrub and desert was filled with cactus (if they weren't filled by some other feature)

iAppearance of 10000 = 100.00% chance of appearing on a tile during map generation. A value of 1 equals a 0.01% chance of the feature appearing on a tile during map generation.

Pick a % frequency value you want cactus to show up at and change the iAppearance value for it, and you can remove cactus generation from the post-map script.

You also have the same problem with Kelp, Reef, and Sea-Grass. They all have an iAppearance of 0 therefore a a zero chance of appearing during map generation.

Coral had an iAppearance of 100 (which is really 1% chance of appearance. You can probably get rid of your reef/coral/kelp etc post-map script stuff also by fixing these appearance values.

Also you have an iGrowth and and an iDissapearance of 100 for both Kelp and Sea-grass. If I recall how these tag work correctly (its been a long while so forgive me if I am wrong) first with an Appearance of 0, there is no initial set to grow from. Second it will mean that those features random grow from and appear or disappear on the map during play. Is this desired? (I would not want them to disappear) If these values are divided by 100 like iAppearance we are only talking about a 1% chance per turn, per feature if it works like that, so at present it is very easy to not ever notice. iGrowth rates should probably be more on par w/ forest and jungle (16 and 20 respectively)

If we had a bRequiresCoast for features, you might be able to do your mangrove w/out the post map-script also.


Sea Lion & Seal and Walrus do not show up because they have a placement order of -1. However, you may want to keep Walrus/Seal placement in the post-map script for doing your coastal checks, unless a bRequiresCoast tag was actually put in, but I don't think it ever was. If you do a placement order of -1 for other bonus you want to hijack and control only via the post-map script, then also assign a placement order of -1 to them, or you get the occasional "in the wrong area" bonus for things like Llama and what not, if you are not infact automatically removing all found instances of them already in the post-map script.

 

[0100010]

Awesome enough?

Spoiler :

Indeed awesome, but you know what would be more awesome?

Adding category type tags to bonus for FLORA, FAUNA, MINERAL (all map resources) and MANUFACTURED, CULTURE, etc for all the non-map resources.

Then in world bulider when you zoom out show: Flora, Fauna, Minerals, Everything instead of the useless Food, Luxuries, etc we have now.

As for placement order we need all the map bonuses up top, as those are the ones people will want to use most often in there when doing map editing. (Simple file order should be enough once it is fixed, but the named list on the screenshot if nice)

Also, has anyone put the damn Goody huts back on in World Builder yet?

 

[platyping]

The sorting is based on whatever bonus class is defined in the XML.

If it is BTS, it will have GENERAL, MODERN, RUSH, LIVESTOCK etc, rather than the luxuries whatever crap in globeview.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Also, has anyone put the damn Goody huts back on in World Builder yet?

Just get rid of the graphical only line in the XML. I don't know why they were changed but it was all the rage at one time. It stops people putting lots near their starting position.

 

[0100010]

Just get rid of the graphical only line in the XML. I don't know why they were changed but it was all the rage at one time. It stops people putting lots near their starting position.

Can that just be fixed in the SVN version? Why should anyone care if people cheat in their single player games?

One of the other things I miss in this version of the world builder is "add all techs by era." Makes quick testing easier sometimes.

 

[platyping]

Whatever function is in BTS WB, is in my WB.
Nothing is missing.

 

[0100010]

Made some additional tweaks to FeatureInfo and BonusInfo xmls. (after merging with the new latest of FeatureInfo)

FeatureInfo changes from SVN version:

Redices iAppearance of Flood Plains to 66.67% instead of 100% when valid (riverside) tiles are encountered. I did this to address the prior concern of them appearing to frequently with the expanded set of valid terrains.

Note that starting locations still seem to use flood plains (as well as kelp/seagrass) to normalize starting locations. It doesn't do it to every starting location, but often enough. If there was a functional <bNormalize> tag for features, like there is for bonuses, this could be averted by turning it off. (bNormalize=1 for bonuses means it is ok to use this bonus to help normalize starting locations, while 0 means it is not.)

Upped the growth of Bamboo from 3 to 16 (now equal to that of normal forests)

Upped the growth of Sword Grass from 0 to 20. (now equal to that of Jungle)

Made volcano's and reefs immune to nukes. (someone should do the same thing to appropriate Natural Wonders if they are not already)

Changed the iAppearance for Coral from 100 to 500. (competes better against kelp/sea grass/reef)

Upped the Growth of Coral from 0 to 5. (they do grow you now.. but very very slowly.)

Reduced the Growth on Kelp and Seagrass from 100 to 20. (you were worried about too many of these, giving it a high growth wont help that. 20 is equal to the growth rate of Jungles. A high growth compounds the problem of starting position spamming kelp to normalize)

Added my Sea Grass comment header that was left out before.

Removed the RainwaterBasin feature out of the healthcare mod and put it into the feature info. Rainwater basin feature will now appear on generated maps as a standard feature.

Also remove its ArtDef and Text entries out of the HC mod and put them in the C2C_NewTerrainFeature_Civ4GameText.xml and Civ4ArtDefines_Feature.xml.
Removed Rainwater Basin text entries from HC_Civ4GameText.xml. (under OrionsMods) The HC_Civ4ArtDefines_Feature.xml and HC_Civ4FeatureInfo.xml may now also be deleted. Note that the Great Bath should theoretically still work, but I did not test it to be sure. The Great Bath needs to be changed to make use of the AddsFreshWater building tag instead of using the rainwater basin feature and python anyway, if that has not yet been done.

Rainwater Basin has an iAppearance of 200 (2% chance of occurrence), on Grass, Plains, tundra, Permafrost, Lush, Muddy, Marsh, and Scrub. It must be in Flatlands, cannot be by a coast or by a river and cannot be adjacent to itself. (it is modeled after the Oasis for non-desert areas.) It provides freshwater and you cannot build a city on it.


BonusInfo Changes:

Added Dunes as valid FeatureTerrainBoolean to parrots. (this allows them to appear on Dunes if and only if said dunes have the Oasis feature on them.

Rice and Poultry (waterfowl) can appear on the Rainwater Basin feature.

Re did the order of all bonuses for organizational purposes, as described previously.

I think that was my only bonus changes, hard to tell once I reordered them because they no longer align to the old version for a file diff compare.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

You should not have done the reorder until all the tweaks were done:sigh: makes it very hard to check and see if I agree.