[MapScript] Erebus Continent

[Seven05]

there, I managed to get a picture of the python exception we're talking about. hope it's useful

also, I can confirm that units sometimes spawn on a peak at start-up, which is pretty weird and gives crazy line of sight

Ok, that was easy. I'll upload 2.41 in a little bit with fixes for both of those, find more for me (but not until 2.41 is up)

Edit: and, 2.41 is up, see if you can get any more errors for me

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

generated a couple maps, no issues so far and they look great and are very fun to play on

one thing I'd like to see tweaked if possible is a way to avoid weird sudden transitions to and from opposite climates, like the tundra->desert one in these screenshots. in version 2.0 I also had a tundra tile with a jungle on it once

 

[Seven05]

For the jungle on tundra were you playing a game with 'End of Winter' on, or had you recently had an event that spawns tundra? It's impossible for the script to place jungles on anything other than grassland or marsh and no terrain changes (aside from modifying hills and peaks) can occur after features have been placed.

However, like the settler starting on peaks, if a mod like RifE is altering the terrain after terrain generation it's beyond my control.

For the tundra<->desert tiles, I have code in place to prevent desert next to snow, grasslands and marshes. Since deserts represent dry land, not hot land, it's possible to have deserts next to tundra. I can prevent it easily enough but it doesn't bother me

Oh, and I'm going to add support of RifE specific features. I think I can do it fine in a single version since I can check for the existance of specific features before trying to use them.

 

[Valkrionn]

On peaks: Orbis and RifE have a separate check for Peaks, apart from other impassable features; Peaks don't fall under that category anymore.

On the Kelp (which is the feature that was mentioned) - This one IS relatively universal; Orbis, RifE, and Wild Mana all have it. I'm not sure if Ahwaric and Sephi want it placed the same way, but it'll work on all of them.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

no End of Winter, so I guess it was that constellation random event that freezes terrain

about modmod specific versions: Wild Mana just needs to add Haunted Lands and Kelp. there's just a couple lines of code to copypaste from the ErebusContinent file that comes with WildMana, search for "ORBIS" and you'll find them easily... I can upload a version with the code already added if you want me to

 

[Seven05]

On peaks: Orbis and RifE have a separate check for Peaks, apart from other impassable features; Peaks don't fall under that category anymore.

On the Kelp (which is the feature that was mentioned) - This one IS relatively universal; Orbis, RifE, and Wild Mana all have it. I'm not sure if Ahwaric and Sephi want it placed the same way, but it'll work on all of them.

Yeah, I fixed the peak issue and that was the cause of it. I made a double check too, just in case

What I've done for Kelp is add a check to see if the feature exists before trying to add it so the map script should place it on any mod that has a "FEATURE_KELP" in the xml and otherwise it'll ignore it. I can easily do the same for any other feature they use.

no End of Winter, so I guess it was that constellation random event that freezes terrain

about modmod specific versions: Wild Mana just needs to add Haunted Lands and Kelp. there's just a couple lines of code to copypaste from the ErebusContinent file that comes with WildMana, search for "ORBIS" and you'll find them easily... I can upload a version with the code already added if you want me to

The kelp code is basically done. I had to make some changes to the way I depress margins of the map and handle the heightmap below sea level but the results look pretty good, just needs some tweaking since that also altered the way landmasses look and its allowing a little too much land right now.

What would be good placement rules for haunted lands? I can place any feature by plot type (flat, hills, etc), terrain type (grass, desert, etc), altitude, temperature and rainfall. I can define temperature and rainfall placement rules to match forests or jungles as well, that indirectly links them to the map option settings for tundra temperature and jungles.

I'm off to work now, I'll send a test version to Valk tonight or tomorrow morning so he can make sure he likes the output and then once he releases an update for RifE that checks for kelp before forcing it onto the map I'll post the update for everybody.

After that, all I really need for full support on them is to add the new civs to the preference list.

 

[Valkrionn]

Yeah, I fixed the peak issue and that was the cause of it. I made a double check too, just in case

What I've done for Kelp is add a check to see if the feature exists before trying to add it so the map script should place it on any mod that has a "FEATURE_KELP" in the xml and otherwise it'll ignore it. I can easily do the same for any other feature they use.

Awesome, sounds good. Honestly, ErebusContinent was already my map of choice... Now it's even more awesome.

The kelp code is basically done. I had to make some changes to the way I depress margins of the map and handle the heightmap below sea level but the results look pretty good, just needs some tweaking since that also altered the way landmasses look and its allowing a little too much land right now.

What would be good placement rules for haunted lands? I can place any feature by plot type (flat, hills, etc), terrain type (grass, desert, etc), altitude, temperature and rainfall. I can define temperature and rainfall placement rules to match forests or jungles as well, that indirectly links them to the map option settings for tundra temperature and jungles.

I'm off to work now, I'll send a test version to Valk tonight or tomorrow morning so he can make sure he likes the output and then once he releases an update for RifE that checks for kelp before forcing it onto the map I'll post the update for everybody.

After that, all I really need for full support on them is to add the new civs to the preference list.

Awesome, oceanic kelp forests here we come.

On Haunted Lands - Does ErebusContinent place any ruins or anything like that? I know FlavorMod does, and I always use the two together so I'm honestly not sure. If you do... I'd say have patches of it around some of the ruins. Otherwise, just have it scattered throughout the world; Relatively rare, but common enough that you'll see it. Really, it's a boost for the Scions, as they don't get penalties from it and can settle near it to get extra commerce.

On the test version - Sounds great. I'll put together a 'flavor patch' that will include the hotfix DLL (People will be more likely to see the patch, and it'll be easier for them to install... Should have done it a while back), add valid terrain types to the feature, have the feature massively increase movement cost (will drop movement to 1 per turn), and have the python I've been using for it's placement in FlavorMod only run if there's no Kelp on the map. Will probably bundle the map in with it too, updating the one currently used.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

haunted lands would definitely fit very well alongside with the planned "ruins with roads" feature indeed

 

[Seven05]

Awesome, sounds good. Honestly, ErebusContinent was already my map of choice... Now it's even more awesome.

Awesome, oceanic kelp forests here we come.

You will definately get 'forests' of Kelp

The calculation to place them is pretty simple. The chance is weighed by the plots' distance from the map edge and temperature. For coasts that is all I do, so if the plot is pretty close to the edge (say 0.8) and the plot is the 'jungle' climate (so about 0.85+) you'll have an 82.5% chance of kelp appearing.

Once you get away from the coast it gets a little more complicated. First, ocean temperature itself is affected by the depth of the ocean (deeper = cooler). Second, kelp placement in the ocean is limited by depth (the 25% that is most shallow). The final chance is similar to the coast chance with more emphasis on temperature, so it's basically the average of the edge weight and the double the temperature (technically its the coast calculation + the temperature / 2 ).

So what you get is a pretty even random scattering of kelp along the coast with more in the warm areas. The ocean kelp follows the heightmap that you can't see because it's underwater so it really just get dropped in like a forest would be if it were land so you can almost see the continuation of the continental plates though the water. Because of the edge weight, kelp density drops as you near the center of the map, so inland seas or similar waterways may have some kelp but it won't be very thick. Since the whole thing is simply a random chance per plot the overall spread is similar to the way ice is placed near the pole(s) with some clumping and some scattered bit here and there. It definately helps convey the climate in the water, also it is dependant on the tundra map option, you'll never have kelp in water that is cold so if you run with massive (or is it very high?) tundra you'll have very little kelp overall. It is not tied to the jungle temperature directly, so having no jungles will yield the same kelp as you will see with massive jungles.

Right now it's just a matter of tuning the base calculation to get the right amount of kelp, but we'll have to let you see it before we decide which way to move it. When I send you the test version I'll give you instructions on where to make any adjustments so you can play around with it yourself if you want, then once you're happy you just need to let me know what values you used.

On Haunted Lands - Does ErebusContinent place any ruins or anything like that? I know FlavorMod does, and I always use the two together so I'm honestly not sure. If you do... I'd say have patches of it around some of the ruins. Otherwise, just have it scattered throughout the world; Relatively rare, but common enough that you'll see it. Really, it's a boost for the Scions, as they don't get penalties from it and can settle near it to get extra commerce.

Not yet, but Gekko beat me to the reminder that ruins are in the works

I believe the Legion guys like it too, too many names to remember though. They were my guinea pigs when I was testing earlier and I seem to remember a decent commerce boost on those plots.

On the test version - Sounds great. I'll put together a 'flavor patch' that will include the hotfix DLL (People will be more likely to see the patch, and it'll be easier for them to install... Should have done it a while back), add valid terrain types to the feature, have the feature massively increase movement cost (will drop movement to 1 per turn), and have the python I've been using for it's placement in FlavorMod only run if there's no Kelp on the map. Will probably bundle the map in with it too, updating the one currently used.

Hmm... if you want to get me excited you have to tell me that you'll work on some cool eye candy features like rocks that I can stick in the coast tiles near mountain ranges, a 'high altitude' version of grasslands and plains and a 'deep ocean' that I can put in... well, the deep ocean. Then I can get some really good looking maps

 

[Valkrionn]

You will definately get 'forests' of Kelp

The calculation to place them is pretty simple. The chance is weighed by the plots' distance from the map edge and temperature. For coasts that is all I do, so if the plot is pretty close to the edge (say 0.8) and the plot is the 'jungle' climate (so about 0.85+) you'll have an 82.5% chance of kelp appearing.

Once you get away from the coast it gets a little more complicated. First, ocean temperature itself is affected by the depth of the ocean (deeper = cooler). Second, kelp placement in the ocean is limited by depth (the 25% that is most shallow). The final chance is similar to the coast chance with more emphasis on temperature, so it's basically the average of the edge weight and the double the temperature (technically its the coast calculation + the temperature / 2 ).

So what you get is a pretty even random scattering of kelp along the coast with more in the warm areas. The ocean kelp follows the heightmap that you can't see because it's underwater so it really just get dropped in like a forest would be if it were land so you can almost see the continuation of the continental plates though the water. Because of the edge weight, kelp density drops as you near the center of the map, so inland seas or similar waterways may have some kelp but it won't be very thick. Since the whole thing is simply a random chance per plot the overall spread is similar to the way ice is placed near the pole(s) with some clumping and some scattered bit here and there. It definately helps convey the climate in the water, also it is dependant on the tundra map option, you'll never have kelp in water that is cold so if you run with massive (or is it very high?) tundra you'll have very little kelp overall. It is not tied to the jungle temperature directly, so having no jungles will yield the same kelp as you will see with massive jungles.

Right now it's just a matter of tuning the base calculation to get the right amount of kelp, but we'll have to let you see it before we decide which way to move it. When I send you the test version I'll give you instructions on where to make any adjustments so you can play around with it yourself if you want, then once you're happy you just need to let me know what values you used.

One word: Awesome. Can't wait to see it.

Not yet, but Gekko beat me to the reminder that ruins are in the works

I believe the Legion guys like it too, too many names to remember though. They were my guinea pigs when I was testing earlier and I seem to remember a decent commerce boost on those plots.

Yeah, they get it too; Non-living civs can function near it, Undead ones like it. The Legion get far fewer cities (or at least, do next version) though, so it's still mainly a Scion thing.

Hmm... if you want to get me excited you have to tell me that you'll work on some cool eye candy features like rocks that I can stick in the coast tiles near mountain ranges, a 'high altitude' version of grasslands and plains and a 'deep ocean' that I can put in... well, the deep ocean. Then I can get some really good looking maps

I'm sure we could find rocks (could maybe sink Warkirby's 'Rinwell Isle' art to get an undersea mountain?), so I'd be more than willing to use that; Same with variations of plains/grasslands. And Deep Ocean too, as that could add to Naval units nicely; Coastal vessels, Ocean vessels (can enter ocean, but don't take ocean voyages - Stay in sight of land), and finally Deep Ocean vessels.

 

[Seven05]

about modmod specific versions: Wild Mana just needs to add Haunted Lands and Kelp. there's just a couple lines of code to copypaste from the ErebusContinent file that comes with WildMana, search for "ORBIS" and you'll find them easily... I can upload a version with the code already added if you want me to

Actually, if you could that would be helpful, I have Wild Mana but I already moved my most recent version in there when I was testing it to make sure it would at least work.

I'm sure we could find rocks (could maybe sink Warkirby's 'Rinwell Isle' art to get an undersea mountain?), so I'd be more than willing to use that; Same with variations of plains/grasslands. And Deep Ocean too, as that could add to Naval units nicely; Coastal vessels, Ocean vessels (can enter ocean, but don't take ocean voyages - Stay in sight of land), and finally Deep Ocean vessels.

We'll have to consider it then, in the future anyway. I can whip up terrain textures easily enough but I don't do models

 

[a_civilian]

Minor concern: many of the options (in game creation) are confusingly named now. Presumably high tundra temperature means they can exist at higher temperatures, hence this creates more tundras? And conversely high jungle temperature means fewer jungles? As for plains and desert threshold, it's not clear whether it's a dryness threshold or a wetness threshold. If I set desert threshold to high, does that mean a region has to be very dry to produce desert, hence there are fewer deserts? Or does it mean a region has to be very wet to not be a desert, hence there are more deserts?

 

[Seven05]

I never know what to put in there to make it easy to understand

The original text mislead a lot of people to think it was direct control over the quantity of the features... hmm, that gives me an idea, I'll change their names to 'xxx chance' since that's all it really is. Reducing any of them reduces the chance of that appearing, so reducing desers will result in smaller deserts, reducing tundra will result in fewer tundra tiles and reducing jungles will... you get the idea

I'll put that in the next public release.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

here is 2.41 with the kelp+haunted lands Wild Mana code already added. although I think the method you were discussing with Valk to add those features would be way better

 

[Seven05]

here is 2.41 with the kelp+haunted lands Wild Mana code already added. although I think the method you were discussing with Valk to add those features would be way better

Thanks, that will come in handy

The test version (2.42) is in Valk's hands now. Once we've made sure it actually works and we have the values where we want them I'll upload a new version here. I may start working on haunted lands too but I'd like to do that with the new regions code instead of just scattering it around the map so that will have to wait until I have the region code finished.

One of these days I'll get all of the mod-mod civs in the preferences list too. If anybody is up for it feel free to take a crack at it and post them here for me

 

[Valkrionn]

Thanks, that will come in handy

The test version (2.42) is in Valk's hands now. Once we've made sure it actually works and we have the values where we want them I'll upload a new version here. I may start working on haunted lands too but I'd like to do that with the new regions code instead of just scattering it around the map so that will have to wait until I have the region code finished.

One of these days I'll get all of the mod-mod civs in the preferences list too. If anybody is up for it feel free to take a crack at it and post them here for me

I'll test it as soon as I'm home from class (actually in class atm.... ), and let you know if I think it should be tweaked.

On civ preferences.... I'll be posting some of them shortly. As of now, RifE contains all the civs in the major modmods (FF, Orbis, WildMana, RifE) other than the Houses from Wildmana, which are spawned; Some are being introduced in 0.30 of Orbis, but it's not out yet. So my list should be fairly comprehensive, though people may not agree on everything.

 

[Seven05]

So my list should be fairly comprehensive, though people may not agree on everything.

Saw that, that was quick

And people never agree on anything. Ok, maybe that's a bit cynical, but if you expect that result you can at least be pleasantly suprised some of the time

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

imho it would be better to fill this hill ( the one with the hyena ) with a peak, otherwise cool, unreachable stuff could spawn there

 

[Doug Piranha]

I tried using 2.41 for the vanilla game. I increased the landPercent to .5 for low sea level to try to get more land. Map size tiny, very low tundra, low desert.

I really like the look of the map, but there's a fatal flaw: tons of marsh in the jungle zone. This is completely unremovable in vanilla FfH, and makes a wide swath of the map next to useless.

 

[Seven05]

imho it would be better to fill this hill ( the one with the hyena ) with a peak, otherwise cool, unreachable stuff could spawn there

I think you had a bit too much to drink, that or you forgot to include the screenshot

I tried using 2.41 for the vanilla game. I increased the landPercent to .5 for low sea level to try to get more land. Map size tiny, very low tundra, low desert.

I really like the look of the map, but there's a fatal flaw: tons of marsh in the jungle zone. This is completely unremovable in vanilla FfH, and makes a wide swath of the map next to useless.

I've noticed that too lately. There will be some tweaks in marsh placement in the next version. Doesn't scorch turn them to plains in vanilla FfH?