Wodan
Deity
My last game I got Malakim firmly in the northern tundra. Was... interesting (from a climate viewpoint).
I could just see Brigit, "Hey thanks for thawing me out."
I could just see Brigit, "Hey thanks for thawing me out."
[MapScript] Erebus Continent
- Thread starter Seven05
- Start date
With the east/west flipping in games with the majority of civs having the same or similar preferences they would gravitate towards the east and west edges with few, if any, in the map center. So I put the code back in to reduce their edge weight by 1, combined with changing the placement order based on neighbor value the distribution is more even and civs that want close (or distant) neighbors actually get what they want more often than not.[to_xp]Gekko;9118011 said:
Wodan
Deity
Feedback on the spawning position issue.
I'm still seeing a bit of concentration toward the middle of the continent. Not as bad as it was, but there's still a huge benefit to those who get on the edge. Just being on the edge itself is a big defensive benefit... getting territory without competition is doubly good.
Secondly, nobody seems to spawn on major islands, meaning somebody on the edge can simply get Sailing and then have a huge area of free expansion.
Thirdly, seeing large areas that, either randomly or though design, get no spawning and thus become Barb homelands. (This latter doesn't bother me overly much, but it does impact the issue as whoever is able to expand / conquer that area pretty much has the game in the bag.)
I'm still seeing a bit of concentration toward the middle of the continent. Not as bad as it was, but there's still a huge benefit to those who get on the edge. Just being on the edge itself is a big defensive benefit... getting territory without competition is doubly good.
Secondly, nobody seems to spawn on major islands, meaning somebody on the edge can simply get Sailing and then have a huge area of free expansion.
Thirdly, seeing large areas that, either randomly or though design, get no spawning and thus become Barb homelands. (This latter doesn't bother me overly much, but it does impact the issue as whoever is able to expand / conquer that area pretty much has the game in the bag.)
I haven't posted the new version yet 
You won't get civs on islands in most games. The map wants 70% of the land to be available for starting plots, if any one landmass is large enough to have at least 70% of the total land that will be the only landmass where players start. If not it will look for additional landmasses to add until it reaches 70% of the total land. All of the possible starting landmasses are evaluated to make sure they are large enough for at least two players, nobody will ever start completely isolated on their own landmass if possible.
If or when FfH and the derivative mods get to the point where the AI can consistently handle their navy I will look into relaxing those restrictions
You won't get civs on islands in most games. The map wants 70% of the land to be available for starting plots, if any one landmass is large enough to have at least 70% of the total land that will be the only landmass where players start. If not it will look for additional landmasses to add until it reaches 70% of the total land. All of the possible starting landmasses are evaluated to make sure they are large enough for at least two players, nobody will ever start completely isolated on their own landmass if possible.
If or when FfH and the derivative mods get to the point where the AI can consistently handle their navy I will look into relaxing those restrictions
Wodan
Deity
If or when FfH and the derivative mods get to the point where the AI can consistently handle their navy I will look into relaxing those restrictions
Understood, but what you're saying is that large islands are preserved for the human only, pretty much. Since the AI won't colonize at the moment.
Can we have a temp expedient which connects islands to the continent or something? Ugly, but might be better than the alternative.
Probably not. Yes, you can exploit the islands but there are a lot of things a human player can exploit in FfH. Whether or not you chose to exploit that advantage isn't really my business and I learned a long time ago not to make severe changes based on what a relatively small number of players might do. At least in this case by devoting your resources to the islands you're letting the AI civs expand further on the mainland.
What I may do in the meantime is make sure none of the unique features are placed off the mainland, but that will require writing my own code for placing them and I'm not sure I want to do that
What I may do in the meantime is make sure none of the unique features are placed off the mainland, but that will require writing my own code for placing them and I'm not sure I want to do that
Wodan
Deity
Yeah, probably best. Still, the real solution is to push for AI improvements. There's plenty of code floating around from other mods to fix the AI's naval use.
Valkrionn
The Hamster King
I got an AI capable of using boats after 5 minutes of xml work. I'm going to leave it out for now, as we'll be rebalancing unit lines anyway, but all that's really left is to make sure the AI knows when to go for the techs. Not too difficult.
Wodan
Deity
Lord Parkin
aka emperor
Only just came across this. Looks very nice, will be sure to try it out in my next game.
mcwill123
Pretender to the Throne
Hi. I really like the Erebus Continent map script. I've been playing Orbis a lot lately. Using EC map script there are too many resources. Is there some way to add an option to reduce resources? Kind of a reverse Blessing of Amathon.
Valkrionn
The Hamster King
That would be done on the mod-side, honestly, not the map.
I'm feeling like a complete jerk - but I really can't remember what to do with those city ruins (I'm playing peacefully, and without city razing way too much ...).
I mean - come on, even the AI manages to get some tech from them, but I just can't get it to work ... and with all those ruins scattered over the map with ErebusContinent (just "accidently" started a game with 2.54, and got a really bad start 2 times in a row ..), I feel I really should get some use out of them.
Oh, yeah, I know they're there since 4.0 vanilla. Or even before?
But the 'pedia entry is empty ever since .. and I vaguely remember I "used" them before .. but I can't remember
Oh, btw., I really like this map script - thanks for making it!
There's only one little thing that bugs me: the "date line" is way to prominent in x-wraparound maps .. I would really like to see it a bit more "hidden", by chain of small islands maybe, or something.
I mean - come on, even the AI manages to get some tech from them, but I just can't get it to work ... and with all those ruins scattered over the map with ErebusContinent (just "accidently" started a game with 2.54, and got a really bad start 2 times in a row ..), I feel I really should get some use out of them.
Oh, yeah, I know they're there since 4.0 vanilla. Or even before?
But the 'pedia entry is empty ever since .. and I vaguely remember I "used" them before .. but I can't remember
Oh, btw., I really like this map script - thanks for making it!
There's only one little thing that bugs me: the "date line" is way to prominent in x-wraparound maps .. I would really like to see it a bit more "hidden", by chain of small islands maybe, or something.
![[to_xp]Gekko](https://civfanatics-data.community.forum/avatars/m/74/74677.jpg?1475248346){kind=avatar}
[to_xp]Gekko
QCT junkie
city ruins can be sanctified ( Life I ) to lower AC, not very useful. graveyards otoh are explorable and you can get nice stuff from them. or spectres. 
That's all? Just sanctifiying them?
I could have sworn it's possible to get research/free tech from them, and that I saw some fitting message lately, like "Some explorers from xy found/got something from ruins near .." or somewhat like that ...
Am I seeing things now?
However, just downloaded 2.64 and and started some new 19-player games - not especially succesfully, as everytime some AIs (and sometimes me as well) where clumped together in one area of the map, with one or several big peninsulas totally empty.
I tried large size/ medium cohesion, low cohesion, huge medium/low, with and without "end of winter" (thought that might screw up the placing), and low and medium see level - every time a similar unsatifying result.
Other settings where "wrap x / advanced terrain: ON / Limited flavor / smart climat:minimal .
(savegames are available ..)
Any tips 'bout settings for a 19-player game?
Thanks.
I could have sworn it's possible to get research/free tech from them, and that I saw some fitting message lately, like "Some explorers from xy found/got something from ruins near .." or somewhat like that ...
Am I seeing things now?
However, just downloaded 2.64 and and started some new 19-player games - not especially succesfully, as everytime some AIs (and sometimes me as well) where clumped together in one area of the map, with one or several big peninsulas totally empty.
I tried large size/ medium cohesion, low cohesion, huge medium/low, with and without "end of winter" (thought that might screw up the placing), and low and medium see level - every time a similar unsatifying result.
Other settings where "wrap x / advanced terrain: ON / Limited flavor / smart climat:minimal .
(savegames are available ..)
Any tips 'bout settings for a 19-player game?
Thanks.
Lord Parkin
aka emperor
You have the possibility of getting a small amount of free research from city ruins, yes. That's from a random event though, and not all of them will occur in any given game. The game you're in might just happen not to have that random event. Even if it does, the research that you gain is only a small fraction of the cost of one tech, so it's not exactly a huge game-winning boost.
You may have seen it in RiFE. City ruins can be ransacked in that mod, unlike FFH or WM (and I'm assuming Orbis, but never played a game of Orbis with ruins).
[to_xp]Gekko
QCT junkie
19 players setup not satisfying on large size, how weird
that's designed for 9, of course it's gonna be bad with 19.
if you want 19 you have to play huge size, high cohesion, low sea level and smart climate override. that's as much land as you can possibly get and even then some civs are gonna be close with 19. I hope you have one hell of a powerful rig too as AI turns are gonna be unbearably slowly in the endgame.
that's designed for 9, of course it's gonna be bad with 19.
if you want 19 you have to play huge size, high cohesion, low sea level and smart climate override. that's as much land as you can possibly get and even then some civs are gonna be close with 19. I hope you have one hell of a powerful rig too as AI turns are gonna be unbearably slowly in the endgame.
But what triggers that event?
Building a city on top of them? Building an(other) improvement on that tile? Parking an explorer there?
In a recent start, I had several city ruins nearby - would be a shame to waste them!
[to_xp]Gekko;9137946 said:19 players setup not satisfying on large size, how weird
If you want 19 you have to play huge size, high cohesion, low sea level and smart climate override. that's as much land as you can possibly get and even then some civs are gonna be close with 19. I hope you have one hell of a powerful rig too as AI turns are gonna be unbearably slowly in the endgame.
Actually, I had little problem running 19 nations on a huge Perfect World 2 map up to turn 486 on epic. Btw., that map has ~80 water, so compared to a ErebusContinent that would make it a large map, land-size wise.
With ErebusContinent 2.64 (2.50 behaved much better in that regard), I have serious trouble, and I tried everything from large/low sea/high cohes to huge/medium medium.
Not because there's insufficient land to settle, but because the starting positions are assigned badly - check the attached screenshot:
Large, high cohes, low sea, "challenge:end of winter" (IIRC) - nearly all starting position are bunched up in those pink circles, while large areas (green crosses) of equally fertile land have been left open and unused. (Some AI still searching for a place to settle on turn 5!!)
That can't be right, so I wonder if some starting option screws up the placing ?!
Attachments
[to_xp]Gekko
QCT junkie
it's not starting options, I agree that the civ placement is too random. Seven05 is still improving the script and a new, better version should be out soon
