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Maritime Battles+ for VP

Discussion in 'Mods Repository' started by Tekamthi, Dec 18, 2017.

  1. Tekamthi

    Tekamthi Warlord

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    updated OP to v17: mostly bug fixes and refinement of features added recently. things generally work very consistently now. starting to feel a lot less "experimental"

    pls provide feedback on naval combat movement adjustments:

    Naval Ranged: -1 movement temporarily after combat. restore full movement by spending 1 full turn out-of-combat

    Naval Ranged: "range" promotion is available to all naval ranged, however it only adds +1 range to battleship: this modded naval range promo adds normal range promo to any ship with RCS > BS's; or alternate promo to ship with RCS < BS. Effectively +1 range, -1 movement, -10% RCS when active on BS; vs +10% RCS pre-BS. (a little unintuitive.. implementation is difficult, this is best compromise available)

    All Naval: Great Lighthouse/Treasure Fleet movement bonus disappears temporarily (effectively -1 movement) after combat. adds +1 vision after combat temporarily. restore full movement & normal vision by spending 1 full turn out-of-combat

    All Naval: Maritime Academy (changed from Navigation Academy): double movement bonus in ocean disappears temporarily after combat. adds +1 vision after combat temporarily. restore ocean bonus & normal vision by spending several turns out-of-combat (length depends on how many successive turns were in combat, since this movement bonus is very powerful)

    All Naval: -1 movement when damaged below 35 hp. heal to over 50 hp to restore full movement
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2018
  2. Tekamthi

    Tekamthi Warlord

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    last iteration before I play a full-game or two. v18 in OP.

    combat-turn movement penalties and related naval promos are all working and in-place, as I would expect they'll stay. tested in-game for a few hours.

    range promo available to all naval units again, but now w/ different effect before/after battleship. text should all be updated. revised/rebuilt various lua functions for much better compatibility and adaptability to other mods. in particular VP EE, ENW, and 3UC/4UC were in-mind for compatibility; I'd expect MB+ to work fine w/ any other that doesn't directly affect same areas of game (ie naval promos & major unit changes, movement rules at sea etc.)

    v18 should be 100% viable for full games
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  3. Questdog

    Questdog Prince

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    What is the point to the fog of war encroaching already uncovered tiles, except to make planning your city locations a pain in the patooty? Can the folder for it safely be deleted?
     
  4. xyzxyz

    xyzxyz Chieftain

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    I admire your modesty ("Most of the work here isn't truly mine"), both with this and the tree growing mod you posted. I just played a day's worth of VP Civ 5 with both, and boy, was it fun. For a while. First off: that encroaching fog of war seems annoying at first, but once you get used to the fact that your old habits don't work and you have to adjust your strategy, I loved it. You have to stay close to your core, methodically build your empire from the inside out, especially if you play Raging Barbarians, because those guys spawn of course everywhere if you can't see the terrain. So many details (loved the occupied terrain rule in combat, and the new naval units, too). So much fun. Until it suddenly wasn't: you have some sort of overflow issue with Great Generals. I played VP with Raging Barbarians and the GG Points option for combat with Barbarians that VP has (barbarian combat earns you Great Generals points), on the Tectonic Map mod with lots of mountains and encroaching fog of war. So the AI Civs and my Civ constantly battled barbarians. Problem is, as you advance into the Renaissance era, the arithmetic for earning GG is off: on Epic speed, by turn 100 or so you earn a great general every turn, then it's two GG every turn, etc. Not even tied to barbarians, GGs get triggered by any simple engagement with another Civ. As human player, you can cope because you just delete the GGs (which is an exploit, because each time you expense a GG your unit base increases by 2, so you can build humongous armies that way). Alas, the AI can't cope, so you suddenly run into those stacks of 60 or so GGs it has accumulated in each of their cities, and by turn 900 AD, if you can see those cities, the animation of those GG masses moving around, one by one, slows the game speed to a crawl. I really enjoyed that game I had going for a full day - one of the best I can remember - but now, at 1000 AD, I had to call it quits. Quite sad.
    This is probably a bug you won't notice when you just spot check from saves. But if you actually run it for 200+ turns, the issue will come up. I hope you can find a fix. This mod is truly great.
     
  5. Tekamthi

    Tekamthi Warlord

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    I'm pretty sure the folder can just be deleted! I can understand the concern, and expect at least a few others will share your pref here. Let me know in this thread if deleting it results in any unexpected behaviour... I'll tweak as needed so that this part can be easily removed by those who dislike.

    For what it's worth, we like it on this end for:
    - how it mimicks human societies' tendency to forget, at least prior to various techs
    - the added value to trading for maps & discovering cities
    - the possiblity of getting lost during early naval exploration
    - the catch-up it allows for recon units built post-ancient era
    - the small human vs AI balance shift it provides (i speculate a little here, but it seems GFoW is more limiting to the way humans think than the way civ AI thinks)

    the effect added to GW and GFW wonders by the original author is particularly well done I think, though it is only sometimes encountered. Some of my local players here had the same reaction at first, but grew to love it; I'd encourage you to try a few more times before making up your mind, especially as I tweak the effect on future revs. There are also options available from the original author in GFOW_FogScript.lua.. you could block fog on resource tiles, for example.

    I tip my hat to these guys, and the community in general here. I suppose I've added a few lines of simple .lua, and a moderately lengthy .sql, not to mention the time spent iterating, debugging, and testing -- this time required accumulates substantially to a lay-developer -- but if you look at the content of GFoW, hex conquer, & friendly waters, these are many times more substantial, and I could never take these on from scratch. I think these were mostly overlooked by the community at large when posted by their respective OP's & are worth better exposure imo. I've only made substantial changes to friendly waters; the others can be implemented individually by finding their original threads elsewhere, in case anyone's interested in just one or two components.

    Well said, I really enjoy the local focus it emphasizes as well... I never have the trapped pathfinder issue anymore, 'cuz he's just too useful to keep near home.

    Great feedback! Sorry that the game didn't work out; I've lost a few good ones too as I've experimented building this mod. I'm guessing the problem lies with how it combines with the GG points option somehow, as MB+ doesn't make any changes to GG things directly, and I havent encountered it yet in other games w/ raging. I'll run my next game w/ GG points and see if I can find the problem. Any chance you could share a save? and also list any other mods you had going? For now, please test w/o GG points to avoid losing save games. I don't anticipate there are any other game-breakers.

    I'm gonna ramp down my work on this soon, but I have a few plans/ideas left to explore yet. Feel free to theorize & comment:

    1. integrate GFoW effect to various aspects of VP (planned)
    - lower base refog rate slightly
    - add policy & wonder bonuses that reduce this effect (I'd like to allow this effect to be turned off almost completely by player through a series of choices in-game)
    - fix minimap refog (maybe not possible, unfortunately.. right now minimap does not refog until save is reloaded)

    2. update icon artwork (planned)
    - make ancient era naval units distinct
    - add unique coastal fortress icon
    - mod minefield icon

    3. revise ancient naval "trade" missions (speculative)
    - currently use portugal exotic cargo x 1 (vs x 3 for nau)
    - gold return maybe too high for early era (increase unit cost?)
    - one-time missions feel too simple.. smaller repeatable mission? (nice to have, but dev timesink to essentially reinvent the wheel)

    4. ancient/classic era naval exploration unit (speculative)
    - multi-human games sometimes leave one player stranded on island etc. While not necessarily an unviable start, it is not fun in MP, especially in games that span longer periods. naval focused civs can be very restricted in some starts as well. some access to ocean travel may help? see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Columbian_rafts for historical basis
    - weak attack/combat. recon xp? 2 moves, dbl movement in coastal, can enter ocean but loses all movement. Each turn started in ocean will RNG "drift" the unit 1 tile.
    - replacement for previous workboat explorer role (which is rightly being killed off in main VP.. i may even further restrict it if I implement this unit)

    5. ocean wind/currents/storms? (highly speculative)
    - early naval warfare history speaks often of the role of weather in determining the outcomes of significant conflicts.. not represented in civ
    - wind/currents could affect movement cost in x direction for turn, or could move units 1 tile on low prob?
    - storms as immobile, 2-5 turn duration barb units at sea, w/ aoe dmg?
    - i'd prefer not to apply flat dmg per turn penalties

    still curious about how naval combat movement penalties are working "in the wild". I like 'em enough to say they're here to stay, but might see some further tweaks before I'm done. Thanks for taking the time to post!
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2018
  6. Questdog

    Questdog Prince

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    I deleted the file and it seems to work fine. I have not done any naval combat yet, but the fog stays away.
     
  7. Tekamthi

    Tekamthi Warlord

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    yeah all of it should be contained to the folder; there are no cross-references as far as i can remember.

    that said, there will be a significant change to the availability of maritime academy NW.. this requires 75% of ocean tiles to be uncovered to build. GFoW makes this difficult to achieve. It shouldn't be game breaking though w/o, just will result in earlier/more common instances of this NW

    Thanks! I'll send you an email in the next few days.
     
  8. Y.O.

    Y.O. Warlord

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    Hey! I just wanted to let you know I think there's a mod conflict between this mod and Wonders expanded, regarding lakes, and was wondering how does the "friendly waters" aspect of the mod affects lakes (assuming it does at all). I highlighted over lakes, and it says "friendly waters," so I'm wondering if that's the reason I can't build wonders that requires a lake (despite having a city built near a lake).
     
  9. Tekamthi

    Tekamthi Warlord

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    Thanks for this... makes sense, I can imagine where this was overlooked w/o even opening modbuddy. I think I can fix it fairly quickly, though it may take me into March before I can turn back to this project. I'd like to review (and overhaul) the entire friendly waters component, but I might do a smaller interim update before then. Stay tuned.
     
  10. NikMuazHakim

    NikMuazHakim Warlord

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    Looks like a wonderful mod and all my favorite mods are in it, keep it up!
     
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  11. Tekamthi

    Tekamthi Warlord

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    I've suggested some aspects of discussion of Zeppelin elsewhere on forums move over here, since I have already implemented some of those ideas in this mod. Further changes to zeppelin will be a component of my next revision as well:

    FYI, current state of zep in this mod, different than zep's default configuration in core VP mod:
    • can hover over all terrain, including ocean (no packing up the zeppelin into a boat)
    • adds naval AI (along w/ previous, nod to historical naval role)
    • no "spotters" promo
    • no dmg when ending on mountains
    • grants sub vision to adjacent naval melee (this only affects corvette i realize now.. i think i was going for a subtle crutch to tech-lagged player)
    • -10 heal in neutral, -5 heal in enemy (ie zep must have a heal-per-turn promo upgrade, or an adjacent "medic" promo'd unit in order to heal outside friendly)
    • cannot pillage
    • starts w/ base withdraw-from- melee chance (30%... compare to incan slinger 80%... though these are opaquely modded by unit movement values as well)
    Loose zep plans for next rev are:
    • make zep its own quasi-unique unit, maybe like mounted elephant is in early eras.
    • starts a new upgrade path: zep -> 20th century airship -> naval helicopter. no more "double movement" in terrain promos on this line
    • add a new, ground-based unit to the recon upgrade line for industrial era to replace zep in this role... probably something inspired by the lewis & clark expedition
    I may have forgotten a point or two, will return to edit this post if so.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
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  12. NikMuazHakim

    NikMuazHakim Warlord

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    Is there a way to make cities one or two tiles away from coast be considered as a coastal city. If yes, can you do it in your mod?
     
  13. Tekamthi

    Tekamthi Warlord

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    I'm not sure if they can easily be flagged as "coastal cities" exactly... but I'm pretty sure I can build in (aka steal from other mods) the ability to build certain coastal-only buildings away from the coast. If you have any requests along these lines let me know. I am already planning on doing this with lighthouse, and the 'coastal fortress' i've already added... as both of these are important to nearby naval movement
     
  14. NikMuazHakim

    NikMuazHakim Warlord

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    The word inspired is much better than stealing. Make a credits list during your spare time :^D. There is a mod that let ships pass through fortresses, so can we in theory change the tile under fortress to coastal? All while being multiplayer compatible
     
  15. Tekamthi

    Tekamthi Warlord

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    I think unfortunately that this aspect lies in the .dll somewhere, and I won't be touching that. Maybe there would be some workaround possible through lua to allow this mechanism, but I suspect it would be inaccessible to the AI -- this would break my own imposed design constraint in that I'd like AI to at least be able to stumble into anything I add. Sorry to disappoint.
     
  16. Moi Magnus

    Moi Magnus Emperor

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    Not really. You would have to force the game to recompute a lot of data each time a fortress is build, since a city is not supposed to be able to switch between coastal and non-coastal.
    (The guys on 3rd/4th UC had a similar problem when trying to add a ressource under the tile of a city, the game only check when settling if there is a ressource under the settler, and assume that no ressource will appear latter)
    Even if someone find a way of doing so by recoding a bunch of things in the .dll, it will most likely systematically cause a desync and reloading in multiplayer.
     
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  17. rp03ev

    rp03ev Chieftain

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    Does the AI know how to use these mechanics properly or only intended for human players? Bc nothing worse than adding new mechanics to the game that the AI has no idea how to use properly. Reason why I stopped playing CIV 6 Rise and Fall and reinstalled Civ5 w VP.
     
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  18. Tekamthi

    Tekamthi Warlord

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    the AI works in existing VP-state that you're familiar with -- nothing added here is out of its reach/everything triggers off something that already happens in-game (ie naval retreats/routes are an existing ability of some land UUs). I've specifically kept in-mind the AI's abilities when working on a feature here, for the most part -- some are still WIP, though and will change slightly on next rev.

    I suspect smart humans will be able to leverage small advantages by nature of having more tactical variables and a slightly tweaked warfare experience from the AI's built-in expectations, but there are no niche options for the AI to miss, nor any particular logical weakness in the AI's use of MB+ -- all of the "added" mechanisms here are already in VP in some way, they've just been redistributed. By adding broad, "dumb" effects in some instances, like an earlier "minefield" that takes the pressure off the AI's coastal defensive tactics, I've found the AI to perform more competitively in some ways -- where AI gets massive building production bonuses on higher difficulties, this seems to be a net-buff to AI.

    The biggest gameplay change I think comes with hex conquer; though there are small ways to leverage this against the AI, it actually does very well here, and is almost buffed in some ways by it (ie those 1-2 AI units that it sends to invade w/ no effect, now have an effect).

    What's needed is testers to report back if/when they find something that the AI can't handle, if this is the case. I haven't found any of these instances yet in v18 play, though admittedly my testing playtime is limited, and my current game has me very land-locked. There are a few small bugs to work out, though nothing game-breaking.

    Please test and report back! I'm particularly interested in feedback on the new naval combat movement/vision regime i've implemented; does it reduce a&m cheese? does it mess up the AI? any technical issues? I'll address bugs/issues where possible.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2018
  19. Tekamthi

    Tekamthi Warlord

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    just packaged up v19 and uploaded as a resource here

    See OP for brief change list, but note that file in OP is still (old) V18

    No Zeppelin changes yet (ie as far as expanding this into its own line.. hover over ocean as main distinction vs VP has active been active for a few iterations)... more next rev. Existing features are running pretty tight now.. fixed all known bugs & script performance should be better for those that found this an issue

    EDIT: need feedback on whether portugal's feitoria still works as expected, both for human and AI (it should be fine in 99% of cases, if not all)
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2018
  20. thothenki

    thothenki Chieftain

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    Hi Tekamthi! I've tried downloading v19 a couple of times & all I get is an empty folder. What am I doing wrong?
     

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