Mass Effect 3

[Kozmos]

I get passionate about stupid things. That is when things get stupid. I'm really a terrible guy to go to the movies with unless it's so bad that it is good.

Oh and enjoy this:

Spoiler :

 

[Akka]

If Akka and Maniacal even half like it, that must mean ME3 is truly a masterpiece. You guys could write a 300 page dissertation on the flaws of Godfather II, jesus christ.

What can I say, not everyone can be a blind fanboy with the attention span and attention to details of a young dog.

And yes, some part of ME3 ARE deserving the name of "masterpiece". There is ALSO lots of flaws. Sorry if, when there is a scale from 0 to 10, I'm able to see all the steps in-between and not just work in a binary fashion.

 

[Dreadnought]

I, for one, loved the final game. I thought some of the cinematic scenes, especially towards the end, were magnificent and moving. I truly felt the pressure of uniting the galaxy against the Reapers, and felt the need to race against the clock to do so, even though there is no such time limit in the game. I'm actually quite saddened that my character is no longer marching forward into the great unknown, with Garrus at his back and the crew on my side. I'm biased in favor of the game, because the series is one of my favorites, but nonetheless I thought the endings were solid:

Spoiler :

I knew something was amiss the moment Anderson showed up on the Citadel, and the later kid-as-god charade confirmed my suspicions that the segment wasn't real. I thought Sheperd might have been dead, but indoctrination makes more sense now.

I have two complaints with the game, though, and I'm curious if you guys agree:

1) Was it just me, or were there a lot less "pull trigger to do x action" in this game? Also, going along with that idea, do you think the Renegade options seemed to lack the power they held in previous games? I performed every mission in the game, but I might have missed some lesser side-quests or dialogue along the way.

2) One thing frustrated me quite a bit in the game. In the secret Cerberus base (with Miranda's father), and especially in the final battle on Earth, the game seemed to throw literally everything it could at me; the difficulty got exponentially higher in those final fights. I mean, six or seven brutes at once, with Banshees? Seriously? My war score going into the final mission was high, and the game still presented this tremendous challenges that made my character appear as an Achilles.

 

[RD-BH]

If I knew then, what I know now ...
... I would never have walked towards the light.

Right now, not only do I have no desire to replay ME3 ...
... I have ZERO desire to ever play ME1 or ME2 again.

Play through to the end and experience it for yourself ...
... but this series is ruined for me.

Personally, if it has EA on the cover, I'm keeping my money from now on.

 

[Singularity]

Spoiler :

I'm aware of all the mad theories on what the ending meant(I guess that's what a hollow end with little or no meaning to it will do - people will start searching for one by default).

Lets say that Bioware is pulling a sick stunt on us to see how much waves they can cause by delivering a deliberatly obscured ending that will be cleared up with a future patch(not DLC).

And then this ending is truly epic and give the payoff for all 3 games in spades to satisfy the biggest carebear and the meanest renegade since the dark ages.

Do you think it will be a win or a loss if this was all a planned stunt?

Some things need a spoiler tag I guess

Oh, and about the picture on the last page, cameltoes , Bioware loves them. And so do I

 

[Kozmos]

Link to video.

This probably redeemed the whole game.

 

[Maniacal]

Just finished it. I can see what they were trying to go for with the ending, but they really screwed it up and makes almost all of your choices throughout the game irrelevant. I'm going to pretend the last 10 minutes didn't happen. All three of the sixteen endings are are bad, one of them doesn't even make sense except because magic. Deus Ex did these endings much better twelve years ago.

The rest of the game was pretty good for the most part though.

Spoiler :

So, the three endings.
1. Control the reapers, I'm pretty sure this is a trap and you just start the cycles all over again.

2. Join organic and synthetic life. This is the one I chose, but it doesn't make much sense at all. How the is everything (and only in this galaxy?) suddenly and magically now have synthetics in it? I mean, palm tree leaves with circuits? What the frell?

3. Destroy the reapers, relays and geth. Okay, this is pretty bad since you now have the remains of a massive fleet stuck in orbit and on a battered planet that probably can't easily support all of them (not too mention the Quarrians and Turians can't eat the same food as the other species so they have to rely upon whatever Live Ships the Quarrians brought). There is no way that could end well as racial tensions will just break out and cause infighting and war (exactly what Starchild ****Mc****er**** wants to avoid).

Also way to rip off Deus Ex.

 

[Dreadnought]

Spoiler :

I'm aware of all the mad theories on what the ending meant(I guess that's what a hollow end with little or no meaning to it will do - people will start searching for one by default).

Lets say that Bioware is pulling a sick stunt on us to see how much waves they can cause by delivering a deliberatly obscured ending that will be cleared up with a future patch(not DLC).

And then this ending is truly epic and give the payoff for all 3 games in spades to satisfy the biggest carebear and the meanest renegade since the dark ages.

Do you think it will be a win or a loss if this was all a planned stunt?

Some things need a spoiler tag I guess

Oh, and about the picture on the last page, cameltoes , Bioware loves them. And so do I

I'd enjoy it, and it might be cool to see if any of the theories about Shepard play out.

Just finished it. I can see what they were trying to go for with the ending, but they really screwed it up and makes almost all of your choices throughout the game irrelevant. I'm going to pretend the last 10 minutes didn't happen. All three of the sixteen endings are are bad, one of them doesn't even make sense except because magic. Deus Ex did these endings much better twelve years ago.

The rest of the game was pretty good for the most part though.

Spoiler :

So, the three endings.
1. Control the reapers, I'm pretty sure this is a trap and you just start the cycles all over again.

2. Join organic and synthetic life. This is the one I chose, but it doesn't make much sense at all. How the is everything (and only in this galaxy?) suddenly and magically now have synthetics in it? I mean, palm tree leaves with circuits? What the frell?

3. Destroy the reapers, relays and geth. Okay, this is pretty bad since you now have the remains of a massive fleet stuck in orbit and on a battered planet that probably can't easily support all of them (not too mention the Quarrians and Turians can't eat the same food as the other species so they have to rely upon whatever Live Ships the Quarrians brought). There is no way that could end well as racial tensions will just break out and cause infighting and war (exactly what Starchild ****Mc****er**** wants to avoid).

Also way to rip off Deus Ex.

Spoiler :

1) Indeed, that was my idea. I mean, honestly, what's the difference between you and the Illusive Man? He's indoctrinated? OK, but what's preventing you from being indoctrinated?

2 and 3) This had me stumped for awhile. Basically, the entire series had been devoted to defeating the Reapers; instead, the Catalyst provides the synthesis as a much better option than outright destruction of the Reapers. He mentions all the bad stuff that might happen to the galaxy if the Reapers are destroyed, and mentions the hope that exists with synthesis. I personally was confused by the synthesis option, but ignored it because it sounded dangerously close what the Reapers do -- incorporating defeated species into their armadas. Then, afterwards, I kind of realized, maybe, why destruction of the Reapers sounded bad -- because the Catalyst made it sound terrible through its use of diction and emotion. I mean, why should Shepard trust the Catalyst? What's preventing the Catalyst from being evil?

 

[PhroX]

When I first played the ending, my reaction was pretty much the same as the others here. Then I did it again and realised something that suddenly made it all make sense:

Spoiler :

This isn't the actual ending.

Everything after being hit by Harbinger's beam wasn't real. None of the scenes on the citadel, or afterwards make sense as reality.

Instead, Shep was lying on the ground in London (as seen in the final scene of the Destroy ending), drifting in and out of conciousness, while trying to resist the effects of the Reaper's indoctrination. What you see is how her subconcious imagines it.

Of the three endings, two - control and synthesis - are Shep submitting to the Reapers. Note how they are portrayed: Control is lit in blue (Paragon), while Synthesis is walking into a pillar of light, something generally seen in media as a good thing (albeit in a heroic sacrifice way). Destroying the Reapers (i.e. rejecting the indoctrination) is presented as the Renegade option, both in the way that it's described as killing all synthetics (possibly even Shep), and the way it's lit up in red. Why would trying to control the reapers, or submitting the entire galaxy to them, be good and destroying them be bad? Answer: the person presenting those options is a Reaper (likely Harbinger - the boy is just how he presents himself to your mind while trying to control).

So, Synthesis and Control are non-standard game overs. Shep is now indoctrinated, and the galaxy is screwed. Destroy, the correct choice, is a "to be continued". Shep regains conciousness in London, just short of the teleport beam..

Yeah, it's a d*** move, but at the same time, it does make this scene have so much more impact that if you'd continued straight after it...

edit: Heh, I see someone referred to the "mad theories". Nice to see I'm not alone in thinking it's like this....

 

[Maniacal]

It doesn't matter how many interesting ways to explain the ending from various points of view, it is still very poorly done. This is an ending that I expect out of a Russian/East European game (like Call of Chernobyl, which even had a red herring/alternate ending right before the real end room, each of which gives several possible outcomes the player can choose), and not a "AAA" North American studio making an xbox 360 game. Developers/publishers/marketing departments generally avoid anything too philosophical or "hardcore" when it comes to the mass console audience, and this ending is confusing almost EVERYONE.

 

[RD-BH]

You say the ending(s) aren't real?
Really?
So ...
... Shepard dreamed the end credits?
Because that happened after those ending(s).
The clip after the credits?
Did Shepard dream that also?

This is what happened ...
... EA/BioWare took my money and fed me fecal matter.
THE END.

 

[Azale]

What can I say, not everyone can be a blind fanboy with the attention span and attention to details of a young dog.

Nah, you're just a nitpicking complainer. You seem to flip out at the most minor things. I could break it down, but that's more of a Dachs thing.

But I will point out one thing. You dedicate alot of your rant to the ending. Since when did endings really matter that much? Do you even remember the ending to Ocarina of Time? I do, it sucked. No one cared. Same for FF7, FFTactics, Assassin's Creed II, Fallout 3, just from the games I have on my shelf in front of me.

Haven't beaten ME3 yet, but I severely doubt there could be any ending that would make me like the game less. That's kinda a ridiculous idea to me and watching you fly off the handle about it is amusing. Bioware just came pretty close to making the perfect action rpg, and it seems like you guys can never be satisfied

 

[Dreadnought]

I agree. Honestly, if you do not like the ending (perhaps because it's too abstract for you), then why does it matter? It's not the destination that matters; it's the journey. I, for one, liked the ending, but I truly enjoyed the journey immeasurably more. That is what matters.

If you want to complain about the ending, go ahead; everyone can have an opinion. But don't degrade the entire trilogy because you don't like the ending.

I can relate to this situation. I enjoyed reading the Eragon books, and read the final book, Inheritance, a few months ago. The first 700 pages were good; the last 100, the conclusion, were absolutely abysmally terrible. Truth be told, I was disappointed for the series, which, though not nearly a work on the caliber of the Lord of the Rings, was a pretty good read when I started about six years ago. I intensely disliked the conclusion of the work, but I still acknowledge that the rest of the series was pretty good -- and that it what I mean.

You may dislike the ending; you may hate it. But the three games are a triumph of storytelling, game engineering, and player mechanics; I hope we can at least agree on that.

 

[PhroX]

If the ending stays as is, I won't dislike ME3; on the contrary, I really enjoyed playing it, but I'm pretty sure my enduring memories of the game will be less about how fun it was and more about how much better the finale could have been.

 

[RD-BH]

Take three bites of your favorite food ...
... now lick a dog's butt.
Would you go back for seconds?
Knowing you have to lick that dog's butt every time you do?

The ending(s) ruined the series for me.

 

[Kozmos]

Nah, you're just a nitpicking complainer. You seem to flip out at the most minor things. I could break it down, but that's more of a Dachs thing.

But I will point out one thing. You dedicate alot of your rant to the ending. Since when did endings really matter that much? Do you even remember the ending to Ocarina of Time? I do, it sucked. No one cared. Same for FF7, FFTactics, Assassin's Creed II, Fallout 3, just from the games I have on my shelf in front of me.

Haven't beaten ME3 yet, but I severely doubt there could be any ending that would make me like the game less. That's kinda a ridiculous idea to me and watching you fly off the handle about it is amusing. Bioware just came pretty close to making the perfect action rpg, and it seems like you guys can never be satisfied

No. Look....I didn't really play Mass Effect for its gameplay. It is not bad but there is nothing really innovative or especially entertaining there. (except messing with physics but there are a million games for that) Standard Bioware pattern and squad based shooting. But the story man...I ejaculated all over that codex. So of course when you're building up a great story over two games with mostly interesting characters and promise repeatedly there will be multiple endings and far-reaching consequences to your actions and then get served with such endings....it just boils my balls and turns my semen into bile.

 

[Dreadnought]

Whoa, gentlemen, let's be realistic here. I've heard opinions that the ending was "sloppy" or "lazy" among other things, but to say it was disgusting or revolting is a bit of an extreme.

Besides, we should all agree with some degree of objectivity that the trilogy did achieve several milestones of video gaming. I mean, to say otherwise is like claiming that Casablanca was a bad film.

 

[Akka]

Nah, you're just a nitpicking complainer. You seem to flip out at the most minor things. I could break it down, but that's more of a Dachs thing.

Call it "nitpicking", I call it "attention to detail". The young dog analogy was precisely for this kind of answer. You see holes and shrug ? Well, nice to have low standard I guess, you're easier to please.

And if you can't see the importance of the ending to the overall feeling of a story, I guess the point is just lost on you.


@Phrox : yeah, I've read the thread about it. I have to admit, it's VERY compelling and convincing. There is a crapload of very subtle foreshadowing, far more than just mere coincidence would be. I'm sold on the idea, and it rekindle my hope.
It won't correct the many other flaws in the game, but it certainly can make the serie goes out with a bang rather than a flop.

 

[Maniacal]

Haven't beaten ME3 yet,

Come back when you've finished it and then I'll listen.

I agree. Honestly, if you do not like the ending (perhaps because it's too abstract for you), then why does it matter? It's not the destination that matters; it's the journey. I, for one, liked the ending, but I truly enjoyed the journey immeasurably more. That is what matters.

The journey, as Akka and others have already mentioned, was more or less fine and a lot of fun. The problem with the ending isn't that it is abstract (although taking it literally doesn't make a lot, if any, sense at all either) but how badly implemented it is. It also fails to provide any sort of epilogue and then ends with a screen telling you that they will let you continue shep's legend in future DLC.

There are so many ways to interpret what happened but none of them are really an answer and nobody except Bioware actually knows what the real ending is.

You may dislike the ending; you may hate it. But the three games are a triumph of storytelling, game engineering, and player mechanics; I hope we can at least agree on that.

There isn't much in the player mechanics that is triumphant, the use of biotic/tech powers is cool but the rest of it is standard 3rd person cover-based shooting and talking to NPCs standing around.

Besides the way dialogue choices and major decisions could affect what happens when you import your save through the rest of the games (which is probably its best feature next to most of the dialogue and interaction with various characters and companions) there isn't much that is really that could be called a triumph.

I like the game as much as everyone else here and I have put in probably over 300 hours into all three of them, but no matter how much I've enjoyed it I'm not going blind myself to its flaws, especially when it is a top selling game coming from a "AAA" studio backed by EA's deep pockets. Indeed, most of my complaints about the ME games are because I really like them and I wish they could be magically made even better. Even after ME3's ending I still want MOAR!!! I realize they have budgets and deadlines and I thought that the missions in ME3 were well done and fairly large/long but there is still so much we didn't get to explore


Link to video.

EDIT: Also while Akka can certainly get obnoxiously 'nitpicky' (or whatever you want to call it) sometimes he really wasn't being too harsh with his ME3 mini-review-thing.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

So I just finished it. I thought the ending wasn't that bad.
Then I tried another option and thought about it some more...

Spoiler :

I chose Synthesis btw, then I reloaded the lates save (on the citadel) and chose Destruction of all synthetic life. I'm now pretty convinced it was indoctrination/halucination.
So the real ending of the Mass Effect trilogy after 100+ hours of playing is that Shepard get's indoctrinated or killed right before he can succeed. Yeah, that's pretty bad.
What's even worse is that there'll probably be a DLC to give us some real closure, or possibly a sequel. Bioware has said that ME 3 will be the end of Shepard's story. They didn't explicitly say that there won't be a Mass Effect 4.