[NFP] Maya First Look

kaspergm said:
Well, I'm gonna side with Larsen here. The fact that you need to invest extremely valuable early time and production into making some farms to give you something that other civs get for free doesn't make it a good investment. I know Maya gets some gold from their farms, but I still have a hard time seeing this as a big overall positive.
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Also, I don’t think it’s supposed be taken as an ability in isolation. The reason they have this ability is so that they can go settle next to plantations with no lakes, rivers or coast, where other Civs couldn’t.

And the housing issue is only an issue until your first builder (and ancestral hall), which will give you 4.5 housing, 3 gold and 1 adjacency for your observatory.

The abilities need to be considered as part of each other, and not in the context of an average Civ playing the average start.

And this is without the UD. Although I think “tier lists” are generally ludicrous, half price campus puts Maya in the top half of Civs alone. Especially with a flat 10% increase to science, production, gold and culture in a game where your start is markedly more important that your mid or end.
 
Vilvatiktan said:
Has anyone talked about how Lady Six Sky merely uses Amanitore's animation?
Hope this isn't the case in the game ugh that's so lazy.

https://www.reddit.com/r/civ/comments/gjqu9g/lady_six_sky_just_uses_amanitores_animations_i/
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Yes.

That thread is a little disingenuous as the copied animation is the minor “rejection” animation that occurs when she rejects a trade deal.

The intro animation seen in the First look is a new animation, and we can probably safely assume that the other voiced lines (agenda compliance, agenda failure, war declarations, and defeat) will also be new animations.

It’s a little disappointing that they have recycled an animation, but I am not really bothered because the accept/reject/idle animations are extremely repetitive anyway and I barely register them as I click through the diplomacy screen.
 
@Larsen
The point about slow growth at the start is a good one, starting with 2 housing is going to be challenging. I don't think going for a Builder first sounds that bad, though, I already tend to do that with the Inca. You argue that farms are bad in the early game, but Mayan farms are a fair bit better, and besides, it doesn't take much luck to start near some farmable resources. You do need to get your first couple of farms out to get going, but past that point, you should be able to get whatever amount of housing you need relatively easily, along with a solid income of food and gold.

I see your point about the Observatory too, but I think it is going to be great. A half price Campus is already great. The adjacencies are a mixed bag as, as you point out. I do think you should be able to get a +3 or +4 pretty consistently, though, as plantation luxuries are not that uncommon, and the Mayans might also have a start bias towards them. I think the Seowon is still going to be better, but that will not prevent the Observatory from being a top 10 unique infrastructure.

I do wonder about the extra amenity from luxuries adjacent to the city center...will you still get that if you settle on top of the luxury? I suspect the answer is yes.
 
Vilvatiktan said:
Has anyone talked about how Lady Six Sky merely uses Amanitore's animation?
Hope this isn't the case in the game ugh that's so lazy.

https://www.reddit.com/r/civ/comments/gjqu9g/lady_six_sky_just_uses_amanitores_animations_i/
Click to expand...

I wouldn't bet on it. But that clip you posted only shows two animations.

If that's the price to pay for additional content, I'm not too fussed. The art is still pretty great.

The quality of a Civ's design is the most important factor imo.
 
Besides, I wonder if someone has considered a possible way to buid a new animation is not to start from scratch, but get an existing one, and apply different layers of tweaks until the animation is disctinct enough to be considered new...

If that is the case, we may be still looking to an "in progress" model, wich will be diferent enough when the DLC comes out.
 
Recycling old animation models for new leaders is hardly new. Play Civ 4 BtS, you'll find it occurs there on a large scale as well. (Gilgamesh/Hannibal and Ramesses/Brennus are two that spring to mind)
 
Lord Lakely said:
Recycling old animation models for new leaders is hardly new. Play Civ 4 BtS, you'll find it occurs there on a large scale as well. (Gilgamesh/Hannibal and Ramesses/Brennus are two that spring to mind)
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The animations in Civ 4 are pretty rudimentary. Firaxis clearly wants the leaders in Civ 6 to express their personalities through their body language, so the concerns are valid, but I don't think recycling a couple of animations is a big deal.
 
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blackcatatonic said:
I am a little concerned that this Civ may turn out to be weak if there's not more done to buff the tall playstyle in the game. I do agree with those who have pointed out it punishes wide play more than rewards tall play. That said, I don't think it's a bad design: it certainly offers a different and challenging playstyle and really that's all I want from new Civs at this stage. Design-wise, this is still streets ahead of the majority of the Civs added in R&F.
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The problem with this kind of Civs is they require out of the box strategy and compared with straightforward Civs like Korea may seem weak. People are lazy with thinking. If they have a good strategy they will stick to their well known and verified path. If something doesn't fit it - it is easy to be judged as a weaker. The big question here is if Maya's potential is a thing. That's why it is so hard to judge it. I would love it if the Maya will be a Civ which is much harder to play but if handled in a proper way much more rewarding and better than Korea. And we should play not just one but a few games to say if it's true.
 
Farns are up to +4 with feudalism if surrounded by other farms. The issue with Maya is a bad capital placement will give you huge problems for the rest of the game, for exponential growth I much rather have something like Romes free monument. There is alot of issue with like poor first ring settling in order to maximize the amount of cities that get bonuses which will also slow down you start and so will builder first when other civs can do stuff like monument first.
 
Denkt said:
Farns are up to +4 with feudalism if surrounded by other farms. The issue with Maya is a bad capital placement will give you huge problems for the rest of the game, for exponential growth I much rather have something like Romes free monument. There is alot of issue with like poor first ring settling in order to maximize the amount of cities that get bonuses which will also slow down you start and so will builder first when other civs can do stuff like monument first.
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Yes, the Govt plaza and free builder hall are going to be essential for Maya, but that will make the resulting cities quite strong because they will get 4.5 housing, a few amenities, and 3 gpt on founding, on top of the 10%.

One of the short term pain for long term gains me thinks.
 
Denkt said:
But doing so mean delaying settling for who knows how long.
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no, I don’t think it does. In fact, while I’m researching the tech, I’d be actively settling because the Mayan satellites cities will be stronger than the capital
 
I'm pretty sure these animations are done using motion capture tech. With the studio shut down they may not be able to capture new animations for leaders.

In any case leader animations are terrible for gameplay flow and I turn them off.
 
Wielki Hegemon said:
The problem with this kind of Civs is they require out of the box strategy and compared with straightforward Civs like Korea may seem weak. People are lazy with thinking. If they have a good strategy they will stick to their well known and verified path. If something doesn't fit it - it is easy to be judged as a weaker. The big question here is if Maya's potential is a thing. That's why it is so hard to judge it. I would love it if the Maya will be a Civ which is much harder to play but if handled in a proper way much more rewarding and better than Korea. And we should play not just one but a few games to say if it's true.
Click to expand...
This is very true. Hard to master but rewarding would be ideal, I think. I definitely have a set playstyle I'm guilty of defaulting to (which is why I tend to play the same Civs over and over) but a science-focused, tall, turtley play is not something I've really attempted since Civ 5 so it will be really fun to try that again.

Ondolindë said:
Add to that bit people are still quarantined or in some type of privation. People are on edge and it can easily spill over.
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Which is why we should all be grateful that Game of Thrones' final season came out last year and not this :lol: :shifty:
 
Architect said:
I'm pretty sure these animations are done using motion capture tech. With the studio shut down they may not be able to capture new animations for leaders.

In any case leader animations are terrible for gameplay flow and I turn them off.
Click to expand...

Nope, they don't.
The animation process is described around 17:00
 
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