[NFP] Maya First Look

[GrumboMumbo]

This thread is incredibly bloated and hard to wade through at this point. In future, I think threads like this need splitting in two. One thread for talking about the new leaders mechanics, and another where people can discuss Leader Animations and Thematic/Historic feelings to their heart's content.

In regards to the Mechanics. I really like the direction they are trying to take Maya, but as others have said, I think the early lack of housing will be very crippling. @Larsen It is actually 3 housing in the capital (not 2) because of the palace, but it's still going to be very damaging to your early growth/expansion/economy.

With Maya you may be forced to go builder first instead of scout. No scout means missing out on Tribal villages and City State Envoys. Also, as others have said, even if farms provide 1 Gold, you are still going to work a 2food 2hammer forest/jungle tile instead, because 1 production is way more important than 1 gold in the early game. It's not good economy to be using builder charges on farms that you arn't working. It means you will be very slow to grow at the start of the game compared to other civs. With Maya, I can see the capital constantly dropping from 2pop back down to 1 when trying to pump out early settlers, it's going to be a slow start whether you plan to go tall or wide.

Perhaps rushing that first builder with a 1food 3production tile will allow you to grow the cap quickly once your farms are up, but unless you are working wheat/rice tiles, working bare farms isn't where you want to be. My guess is that they will have a corn bias, which might make things better. I like the unique play style they pose, having the freedom to not have to stick to fresh water will be interesting and fun for city planning, but I think the lack of housing for the capital might cripple this civ.

 

[Siptah]

I‘m actually surprised so many people seem to play with leader animations on and therefore care so much for it. Am I the only one who can‘t stand the highly repetitive phrases and gestures that needlessly pop up all the time? The game experience for me is so much better with leader and in-game animations turned off as it is so much slicker and much less of drag overall.

 

[AntSou]

This thread is incredibly bloated and hard to wade through at this point. In future, I think threads like this need splitting in two. One thread for talking about the new leaders mechanics, and another where people can discuss Leader Animations and Thematic/Historic feelings to their heart's content.

God no, we already have enough threads as it is, an additional two per leader would make navigation in the Civ6 - General Discussion forum a pain.

 

[blackcatatonic]

God no, we already have enough threads as it is, an additional two per leader would make navigation in the Civ6 - General Discussion forum a pain.

This - and given the excitement and rapid flurry of posts these threads always generate instantly, a restriction like this would be very hard to enforce.

Even with only 5-6 threads relating to the new content at the moment, I'm finding myself struggling to remember what I posted in which thread

 

[GrumboMumbo]

That was less of a suggestion and more my polite way of saying "please stop with the endless posts about leader animations"

 

[Wielki Hegemon]

No scout means missing out on Tribal villages and City State Envoys.

Scouts in the early game are more used to spot different civs and sell them luxuries imo. This trade helps to delay an initial AI rush attacks and give you gold to catch up in higher difficulties.
Their second biggest problem can be production. First turns you will have to play Mali style a little bit.

 

[Kibikus]

I agree that it looks like they're going to have a slow start, so they might not be a consistently strong civ, but they should play a bit differently, and that's more fun for me.
I'll enjoy the puzzle of figuring out how to make them work. I'm curious if they're going to gain more steam as the game progresses with their percentage yield bonus which is quite rare for the game.

 

[kb27787]

My impression is that they are around as bad as Mali... you go builder first (otherwise your capital has no housing) but you are forced to make farms (which are terrible tiles when you could be working other useful things like hill bananas, or sheep) which give no production.

Unless they introduce a buff to palace guard or something to make early cities tougher (I recommend having every civ capital also start with walls...) they most likely will get wiped out early game if another deity civ starts nearby. The UU looks ok but will lose completely to the Pitati since those are 3-move units

 

[Cerilis]

Mhrm. Maybe instead or rather additionally to having plantation resources starting bias, they also have a farm bonus resource starting bias?^^

 

[IvoryPavane]

My impression is that they are around as bad as Mali... you go builder first (otherwise your capital has no housing) but you are forced to make farms (which are terrible tiles when you could be working other useful things like hill bananas, or sheep) which give no production.

Unless they introduce a buff to palace guard or something to make early cities tougher (I recommend having every civ capital also start with walls...) they most likely will get wiped out early game if another deity civ starts nearby. The UU looks ok but will lose completely to the Pitati since those are 3-move units

Bit lost with this one.

They WANT to work bananas because the plantation is going to give major campus adjacency. And with one builder, they have more housing than a Civ on rivers (as well as 3 gpt)

Also, the UU is 2 strength off a Crossbowman when it’s defending her territory. I literally cannot think of a safer Civ from assault in the ancient era, save Nubia herself, and that’s only because she can produce more.

(Obligatory reminder than a unit or district being worse than one other Civs unit or district =/= bad)

 

[kryat]

How do people feel about extra amenities for each luxury adjacent to city center? Does this ruin the plans of squeezing in 13 cities, or is it not worth it? My prediction is that most players will have 7 high-output cities and then a bunch of mediocre colonies.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Which is why we should all be grateful that Game of Thrones' final season came out last year and not this

It wasn't that bad.

I‘m actually surprised so many people seem to play with leader animations on and therefore care so much for it.

To me it feels more immersive and at this point it would look weird to me if they were frozen.

 

[IvoryPavane]

How do people feel about extra amenities for each luxury adjacent to city center? Does this ruin the plans of squeezing in 13 cities, or is it not worth it? My prediction is that most players will have 7 high-output cities and then a bunch of mediocre colonies.

To be honest, that’s what I have now. I think 80% of my production, gold, sciences etc come from my first 6-8 cities, and the rest are just little settlements to fit more campuses/theatre etc to pump up those outputs

 

[SammyKhalifa]

How do people feel about extra amenities for each luxury adjacent to city center? Does this ruin the plans of squeezing in 13 cities, or is it not worth it? My prediction is that most players will have 7 high-output cities and then a bunch of mediocre colonies.

well 13 cities is never going to happen in real game play anyhow.

 

[UWHabs]

To be honest, that’s what I have now. I think 80% of my production, gold, sciences etc come from my first 6-8 cities, and the rest are just little settlements to fit more campuses/theatre etc to pump up those outputs

Yeah, my current game as Inca, I would say my first 7 cities are essentially the core of my empire, and they'd all be within that 6 tile ring. The only cities outside of that are essentially tundra outposts, so taking a big penalty on them isn't nearly as damaging.

 

[AntSou]

My impression is that they are around as bad as Mali

Wait, Mali are bad?

 

[yung.carl.jung]

Very unpopular take: The Mayans are actually worse than a vanilla Civ. Their "bonuses" are so bad they're actually a malus. Spain is a better Civ than them.

Yes, perhaps a bit flippant, I'll wait to play them myself, but it seems all of their abilities utterly backfire in a game where wide is king and farms are mostly useful for the Feudalism inspiration. The abilities seem fun for roleplaying or specifically challenging yourself to play tall, but not for any high-level play. Shame because I really like the leader. It feels even the damn Campus is weak. I remember the Maya in Civ 5 had probably one of the best unique buildings in the entire game.

Very hot take: The Mayans are actually specifically designed this weak to be a new difficulty. Playing Mayans on Deity and not building more than 6 cities is the ninth difficulty level.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

The issue of Maya is not just one thing but several things. A bad start or a water Heavy map will hurt them alot. Having to build builders to make your cities grow will probably slow them down as farms are not that good Before feudalism other than placed on resources.

Without knowing what the patches will do it is however hard to say how well the Maya will be doing.

I remember the Maya in Civ 5 had probably one of the best unique buildings in the entire game.

Also it was an ICS civ in civ 5.​

 

[Sostratus]

Wait, Mali are bad?

A lot of people find the whole -30% unit & building production to be a bit harsh in the early game. You need settlers and builders to set up your gold income to avoid the production penalty in the first place, so at the start units taking 50% longer is extremely painful.

After that point they are great but especially on high difficulty you are really vulnerable and slow to get going.

 

[Leucarum]

I think it's fair to say thay Maya will have a few drawbacks.

They are probably going to be very map dependant (In firaxis' shoes I might have been tempted to give them a guaranteed inland start like the opposite of the Maori's start).

Their dependance on infrastructure makes them vulnerable to disasters. Which is kind of a cool nod to history.

They will want to adjust their early game priorities like Mali needs to. Still, depending on whether you get a high production tile you you may be able to go scout > builder some of the time... The first few turns will probably be a judgement call a lot of the time.

That said, I don't think any civ with a half-price campus will ever be lower tier and I also don't think any civ with an unique archer will ever be lower tier.

I can see how they might not suit all playstyles but this is one of the civs I have felt the most anticipation towards trying out.