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[NFP] Maya First Look

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by bite, May 14, 2020.

  1. Venceslau Pietro Pietra

    Venceslau Pietro Pietra Chieftain

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    No one asked for this information, but the brazilian version chose to name her simply Wac-Chanil-Ahau instead of Lady Six Sky
     
  2. Danthor

    Danthor Warlord

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    Ohhh I wish that had been the case for Spanish.

    "Señora Seis Cielo" (the literal translation of Lady Six Sky) is just too stupid.
    Why not keep her original name, Firaxis? Why? WHYYYY????
     
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  3. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    Well I've been playing as the Maya and I do admit that I've been able to find very decent Observatory spots in all of my cities that equal to or surpass the Seowon.
    One I built adjacent to three plantations so maybe I'm lucky but I didn't realize it would be as good as it is.

    By the way I appreciate the delegate names like Moon Jaguar.
     
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  4. Morningcalm

    Morningcalm Keeper of Records

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    I would wager for much the same reason Indonesia's leader is called "Gitarja" rather than "Tribhuwannottunggadewi Jayawishnuwardhani". While the Maya leader's name isn't as lengthy, it may still be tricky for people to pronounce properly. Lady Six Sky has a nice poetic ring to it, much like the Maya delegate names.
     
  5. Danthor

    Danthor Warlord

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    I disagree completely. Both in the analogy (really nowhere near that long, and Leoner of aquitaine is longer) and the pronounciation... the same could be said about Jayavarman, Chandragupta, Nzinga sth, the chinese leader, Wilfried sth, etc
    Maybe Lady Six Sky sounds nice to you in english; in spanish just sounds dumb (cardinality doesn't match for starters)
     
  6. Venceslau Pietro Pietra

    Venceslau Pietro Pietra Chieftain

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    "Senhora Seis Ceus" sounds terrible in portuguese, thanks they changed it, the team behind the brazilian version did others smart adptations in the past like food market becoming "mercadão" so i didnt expected less
     
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  7. Caprikel

    Caprikel Warlord

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    So far playing the Maya makes me really wish base game farms gave more housing, it's just really nice actually being able to have decent housing early on.
    Maybe base game farms should grant 1 whole housing, while Maya farms grant 2, with a slight nerf to freshwater housing to balance it out a bit. It would really help make farms actually worthwhile for non Maya civs.
    As for the Maya, my start was rather disappointing with barely enough plantations to make decent Observatories with. Despite the Jungle start, there was only ONE banana resource, and only one spot where I could get an observatory adjacent to two plantations. That spot was actually away from my jungles near a floodplain area, which was by far the best place for a Maya city. It also had a Volcano nearby which I could place early farms near since the volcanic ash lets you place farms on hills.
    Floodplains are clearly the best places for Maya cities, whereas jungles are unsurprisingly rough to start with since you need to do a lot of chopping.
    Forest fires are great since they buff jungles and forests, which is something that's been really needed to keep those tiles competitive with floodplains and other tiles that typically benefit from disasters.
    The Maya do seem to struggle with production early game, which makes early wars a bit difficult even with the great unique archers.
    I basically have had to support my entire empire with my one amazing city, while the rest struggle to produce things. I wish those nice forest fires were actually happening in my cities, since they unfortunately were in inconvenient places for me to actually reach in that game. I really wish the Maya bonus applied to the capital as well, mine really could've used that bonus, although I'm partly to blame for the capital not being so great since the Khmer surprise warred me while my archers were defending my new city, and because of the jungles they took 3 turns to get back which was enough time for them to take my capital. A jungle movement bonus would be awfully nice to have, since it basically retards my growth by literally slowing everything down.
    Anyway, my early conclusion is that the Maya are way too dependent on your start, and really could use something to compensate for that.
    I wouldn't mind them being completely OP if they get the perfect start so long as you can still do decently in a mediocre start. A lack of plantations is especially crippling.
     
  8. lotrmith

    lotrmith Prince

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    I'm finding Maya's lack of start housing to be a really, really ridiculous malus. Like, they're hardly even viable until you get Ancestral Hall, and then you *have* to build at least one farm just to get to a regular growth rate (Your cap suffers growth penalty when it reaches Pop 2 and your expansions immediately have growth penalty)...

    That and my starts have been bogus. Maybe bad luck, who knows, but very little room for worthwhile expansion within 6-tile radius... tundra, snow, etc. That and very few opportunities for plantations so maybe 2 really good observatories, one or two mediocre ones, and then nothing but crap.
     
  9. Caprikel

    Caprikel Warlord

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    Lack of housing hasn't been much of an issue so long as I have a Liang city producing builders for me, it's the lack of production and lack of good observatory locations that's really been causing me issues. Maya are kind of strange in that they have a jungle start, but actually suffer the from a jungle start. They have no jungle bonuses other than a general plantation bonus, and actively want jungle cleared for farms.
     
  10. lotrmith

    lotrmith Prince

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    Does anyone know the start bias and its weight? I haven't got a jungle start in my first two games.

    Also once you're up and running I'm sure they speed up, but the growth in your capital and first expansion or two at the beginning of the game is so ridiculously bad that I'm doubting I can make up for it later.
     
  11. Morningcalm

    Morningcalm Keeper of Records

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    The differences in name length and pronunciation don't ultimately matter. It's the same principle. And in English she is known as Lady Six Sky by archaeologists. If you don't like how it sounds in Spanish that's a different matter.
     
  12. bengalryan9

    bengalryan9 Prince

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    I rolled a couple of starts before getting a map I wanted to try (the first I was boxed in by city states greatly limiting my ability to settle, the second I was near the tundra... didn't really want to mess with either of those). Third time looked decent enough. I don't have a ton of plantations (just one in a few cities), so bad luck there but not a deal breaker. I don't think I did the best job at planning out my city placement and I've got Germany to the west and ocean to the east... I'm at 7 cities. Could've had more, but wanted to settle next to luxes if possible.

    I will say their UU coupled with their CS bonus is really good. As someone who prefers to play defensively, it's perfect for me. I have one with a three promotions (garrison, arrow storm, and w/e the one that comes before that)... he's parked in a city with Victor and is at like 60+ CS... not bad for an archer lol.

    I didn't feel the effect of the housing malus too much tbh. I'm so busy trying to churn out settlers early on that my cities tend to sit right around 2-3 pop for the first era anyways, and by the time I was ready to grow I had plenty of housing.

    Just built audience chamber for the first time, too.
     
  13. lotrmith

    lotrmith Prince

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    I'm also finding that I'm starting next to fresh water, or coast, as often as just about every other civ. So I expect that natural fresh water / coast spawn bias hasn't been removed from Maya, which makes them getting a good start a bit harder because if they have bias for plantations and/or jungle, that's competing with a water requirement for spawning when IMO it shouldn't be.

    Also seems to me there's little plantation bias and likely a Maize bias. So farm bias over plantation bias which hurts.
     
  14. Danthor

    Danthor Warlord

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    Well, you brought up how the name "sounds".
    And I agree with that those things don't matter in the end. The bottom line "Lady Six Sky" is not her name, just a translation. And as such I really think Firaxis fracked up.

    Well, they also have "America" civ instead of United States, but that is another issue. At least in the spanish version it's properly named.
     
  15. IvoryPavane

    IvoryPavane Prince

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    I’ve loaded up 20 games with Maya just to get a feel for their starting biases.

    17/20 games there was two+ plantations in within the expandable borders of the capital. The other 3, there was one within 6 tiles of the capital. So there’s definitely a bias or I’m very lucky.

    20/20 had maize so I’m sensing something definitely there.

    Jungle starts feel really ugly though. I think how “good” the Maya feel depend on how quickly you can get that first builder out and the first few farms down.

    Science is absurd though so far. I’ve not gone below a +2 adj, +3 is average. I hit a stonking +6 banana patch that I was able to angle a few more cities around to get +4s
     
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  16. Morningcalm

    Morningcalm Keeper of Records

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    You're entitled to your opinion, but most scholars refer to her with her "Lady Six Sky" name, since her original name is a mouthful (and even for Mayan archaeologists it seems). The average gamer is hardly going to be able to pronounce her original name either, so I think it's a simple enough decision on their part. And the translation issue in Spanish is hardly directly Firaxis' fault--as far as I know there are localization staff that decide how to translate the English version of the name. So my point is even Spanish localization staff could have changed her name to the original Mayan name if they wanted to. It's not Firaxis' fault for calling her Lady Six Sky.
     
  17. Brutus2

    Brutus2 Prince

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    I had the opposite experience. In my first game I had exactly zero potential plantations anywhere in a six tile radius around my capital but several mountain ranges. I usually try to make the best of bad starts but I gave up on this one because I specifically want to try out Maya.

    In my second attempt at playing Maya, I built an observatory next to a banana plantation, the government district and some farms. I was very happy with myself until on the very next turn the volcano next to the bananas had a mega colossal eruption and completely wiped out the plantation including the bananas, so I could not replace the plantation. Only a plain tile (with volcanic soil) left. I feel like that is new. I knew an eruption could destroy an improvement but did they always have a chance of completely removing the resource as well?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 21, 2020
  18. lotrmith

    lotrmith Prince

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    Yes, they commonly wipe out trees, kill cattle/sheep, etc.
     
  19. Piranga

    Piranga Chieftain

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    Just had my first win with the Maya. Flew through an emperor space race win. I built six cities around my capital. I couldn't fit any more due to the map layout and AI settling. By the end of the game most of those cities were size twenty. Three of them were close to 30. It was fun to play a tall civ again, as I feel like I usually just end up going wide.
     
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  20. Zaarin

    Zaarin Chief Medical Officer, DS9

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    My first Observatory had a +4 bonus; my second +6; my third +5. My weakest Observatory is +3. It's very strong.
     
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