mb1 20K double whammy

[Karasu]

Mad-bax, that place is beautiful!

I went close, once, when I was with a friend on a bicycle tour of Northern England. We followed Hadrian's wall from Newcastle westward, but we didn't make it to the other side (the holiday was suddenly over...).
I knew we had missed something.


I have been doing a lot of hiking in the Alpi Apuane lately (=last couple of years).
It is the area where the Carrara Marble comes from; it's a small mountain range, but the landscape is really impressive.
Oh, well, I had better stop before I get carried away...

 

[a space oddity]

I don't have any pictures yet, but this is a nice impression of what that gorge was like: http://www.panoround.com/greece_site/qtcret2.html

It is on Crete, so I stayed on topic with the GOTM, we even visited Knossos. When the pictures are ready I may even post a picture in a spoiler...

@Karasu: no apologies needed. It's good to know so many people like walking, one of the most fundamental pleasures IMO.

 

[TedJackson]

Hi guys,

Looking at the start, I think it might be worth moving the worker S (to the mountain) for a better view of the surrounding area. My gut feeling is that our first settler should take the "Dead Spot" SE of the mountain, given that the settler moves NE.

We can use this "Dead Spot" for warrior/worker production (possibly even a settler) while we explore for our ideal 2nd city, abandoning it when it has served it's purpose.

Pottery seems essential as the first research objective as we're not food-rich. Follow that with BW (for Colossus) to start the ball rolling

A big fat unknown in all this is what will the GH give us? A tech, a settler, a friendly warrior or a map of the surrounding area?

So much depends on what we find in our local area that it's difficult to plan much further ahead at this stage.

To sum up:
I propose to move the settler NE (coast), the worker S (mountain). The next moves depend on what the workers reveals and the GH gives us.

Sorry if this doesn't make much sense but I've had a few s


regards

Ted

 

[Karasu]

I vote for your plan, Ted.
Only on founding on the 'dead spot' would I be a bit cautios -as you say, it depends so much on the local geography that it's hard to plan in advance.

Other than that, good luck -good beers! I enjoy it almost as much as walking (well, not at the same time! ) and see you on Monday.

Have a nice weekend!

 

[TedJackson]

The thing with beer and walking is...

The more you do of one, the more you want of the other or the more you partake of the other the more you do of the first


regards

Ted

 

[mad-bax]

inudog: I'd like you to play. Since you are so unreliable I could just be strict with you and pass your turn if you don't pick it up in 24 hours. If you post to say you want to play then I will probably declare the roster full.

I've been to Banff to ski, and promised myself I would go back in the summer. My ski instructor taught skiing in the winter and fly fishing in the summer. What a life. You're a lucky guy.

The first moves.

I agree too. Since the settler move is decided, I would make that move before the worker, and then decide whether the mountain move is necessary. But really, although general strategy etc. is a team thing, the actual individual turn play is completely up to the player. So feel completely free to ignore me.

EDIT: First post now edited to list opponents.

 

[TedJackson]

Should we have a "discussion pause" between players?

I was thinking of something along the lines of waiting for at least 3 other players to respond and discuss situations and developments before the next player takes his turns.

This would help to define & refine our strategy in the early stages of our game without slowing it down too much.


regards

Ted

p.s. As my meetings today were cancelled and I was at a loose end I took the first 20 turns this morning. As Karasu is away I'll defer posting until Monday. I'll just say that all's looking well

 

[mad-bax]

Ted: Yes, your idea is a good 'un as far as I am concerned. This is not a race for me, but I do want to keep the game moving so people don't lose interest. So we'll do exactly what you said except that I will reserve the right to move the game along if responses are slow.

I think it's fine for you to post your turns. Karasu is up next anyway, and so we cannot expect the next set of turns until next Wednesday/Thursday.

If you post a picture to go along with it then we will have something to discuss, and Karasu will be able to read and respond on his return. Not to mention the fact that I'm dying to see how you got on.

 

[TedJackson]

Originally posted by mad-bax
Ted: Yes, your idea is a good 'un as far as I am concerned. This is not a race for me, but I do want to keep the game moving so people don't lose interest. So we'll do exactly what you said except that I will reserve the right to move the game along if responses are slow.

I forgot to say that there should be something like a 24hr cutoff for the discussion phase.

Originally posted by mad-bax
I think it's fine for you to post your turns. Karasu is up next anyway, and so we cannot expect the next set of turns until next Wednesday/Thursday.

OK then, I'll post in a little while.

Originally posted by mad-bax
If you post a picture to go along with it then we will have something to discuss, and Karasu will be able to read and respond on his return. Not to mention the fact that I'm dying to see how you got on.

Funnily enough, I was just about to fire up Photoshop


regards

Ted

 

[TedJackson]

1 - 4000BC
Settler NE - Holy Cow! I mean... there's a cow NE!
Worker S

2 - 3950BC
Bejing founded - Warrior
GH gives us Pottery - the Gods smile on our endeavour

Worker heads for cattle
As we can't research any 2nd tier tech directly I start Alphabet @20%

3 - 3900BC Zzzz

4 - 3850BC Zzzz

5 - 3800BC
Worker irrigate (Cattle)

6 - 3750BC Zzzz

IBT
Bejing Warrior - Warrior

7 - 3700BC
Warrior W
Worker irrigate - road (this tile will always be in use so we might as well get the gold now)
Bejing at +4fpt - growth in 1 exactly

8 - 3650BC
Warrior N (mountain) - spots river with BG to the West
Bejing switches to settler

9 - 3600BC
Worker road - W
Warrior W - new vistas open up. Rivers, hills, forests and a couple of BGs. I think we may have found our second site.

10 - 3550BC
Worker mine
Warrior SW - 2 more BGs revealed. Giving us a choice of 2 adjacent tiles to settle on

11 - 3500BC
Warrior SW - I think we have our site. 5 BG, 3 forest, 3 hills, 4 mountains (for later) and, of course, it's on a river. The only bad news is that I haven't seen any luxuries yet.

IBT
Bejing cultural border expands

12 - 3450BC
Warrior S - make that 6 BGs for our next site

13 - 3400BC
Worker mine - road to hill SE of 2nd site
Warrior S
MM Bejing for +4fpt (forest is a pain at the moment) due to growth
Lux 10%

14 - 3350BC
Make contact with Russian Scout
Buy CB & BW for Masonry, WC + 25gp
Warrior SE

IBT
Bejing Settler - Warrior

15 - 3300BC
Settler heads W to the promised land
Warrior S - looks like coast to the SE
Lux 0%

16 - 3250BC
Warrior E (mountain) - it's definitely sea to the S

17 - 3200BC
Warrior SE
Settler arrives on-site

18 - 3150BC
Shanghai founded - Warrior
Warrior E

IBT
Bejing Warrior - Settler
The people love me

19 - 3100BC
Warrior 2 SW (off to make new contacts)
Warrior 1 E (mountain) - spies GH S

20 - 3050BC
Warrior 2 SW
Warrior 1 S - GH gives us Mysticism. Another good luck omen?

Review
Research is set @10% (need to keep an eye on this)
Lux @0%
We have 49gp in the treasury and are making 8gp/t
The only luxuries in sight are the Furs
Our military is strong compared to Russia *chuckle*
We are equal 1st on the Histograph
We have a grand total of 18 culture points
We are up Mysticism

Notes
The worker should finish roading in 2 turns
I used the 1st warrior to scout our immediate locale rather than sending him off on a search for contacts. I believe this has paid off quite well.

Discussion
What to do next? Both Bejing and Shanghai look to be good Wonder producing cities but where are our workers/settles and military to come from?

Future sites?
The forest tile N of the Furs seems to be the best bet that I can see at the moment. However, unless there is a food bonus in the radius it's not going to be particularly good.

Maybe there is somewhere better to the North/Northeast of Shanghai. 5 NW of Bejing looks promising or the hill NE which is at the same RCP distance (5.5) as Shanghai, not that I consider RCP essential for our situation.

Build strategy?
We could build a temple in Shanghai then start The Oracle (either as a prebuild or for the wonder). Similarly, we could go Temple then Colossus in Bejing. But that leaves us with only one other city to come up with settlers, workers and military.

Should we build another settler in each city first? Then we would have 3 cities for other production. I guess I'm leaning toward this option hoping that barbs or aggresive AIs aran't going to be a problem. Russia must be fairly close as I made contact in 3350BC.


Just my usual random thought processes the save is > here <


Good luck Karasu


Ted
<edit> I didn't built a granary in Bejing as I thought it more important to get the settlers out ASAP</edit>

 

[TedJackson]

Our view is limited so the choices are few but here is my take:

The Red site has Furs and is on a river so that gets my vote for our next settler.

Green is unknown but has potential.

Blue is a possible short-term worker/warrior factory

Yellow or where the warrior is standing to bring in the Whale and lose the BG. Nothing special just a filler.

I don't think there are enough land tiles SE of Bejing to make settlement there an attractive proposition.

Until we know more of the map these are our choices.

Mad-bax's Palace Jump strategem could be implemented when Bejing produces the settler


regards

Ted
<edit>Forgot to scale the image </edit>

 

[mad-bax]

Good grief Ted: The gods look down on us and smile. The problem with palace jumping now for me is that the capital is the best site. I think I have to retract my palace jump suggestion.

The dot map is interesting. If you consider where shanghai and green spot are now and then move your red spot 1 tile East then we could make a 5.5 tile RCP ring around the capital. Yellow spot doesn't get the whale anyway so could be moved one tile north.

The terrain is green and lush, but devoid of any bonuses at all. The furs are a relief and we should get them hooked up probably as a priority as you say. I can't see a good settler factory site, other than the capital. I would say that maybe a settler factory is not really feasible.

The Russians will pop all our huts for us which means the race for the early wonders is already on. I am confident now that we can get the Collosus in the capital and the pyramids in Shanghai, but I do worry that the Oracle may elude us. I'm wondering (since this is not a race) whether delaying the temple in the capital will help win the race for the Oracle.

Also I would be delighted if Japan are nearby, so we can get the wheel and see if we have horses anywhere nearby.

Overall I don't think we could have wished for a better start. Good turns Ted. I think we could be in for a great game.

 

[andvruss]

Just a though about the dot map: don't you think that the blue dot has a little too much overlap with our capital (if our capital will be building wonders along with one other, Shanghai looks pretty strong).....

 

[mad-bax]

andvruss: Long term, yes it does, but not until sanitation. I think Teds idea is that we need a town where we can just pop out workers every three or four turns for a while, thats easily connected to the trade network and uncorrupt. The city can then be abandoned, probably sometime in the early middle ages. The only improvement that would be beneficial in this city is a granary maybe.

The dot map is only for discussion, and better sites may be made visible shortly. Personally I hope we can find a food bonus nearby and use that instead.

Have you read the military acadamys RCP discussion? I like the idea a lot.

 

[mad-bax]

For RCP the placement might look as follows.

This is also a reasonable approximation to OCP but has the disadvantage that Red dot is not on the river.

Maybe we should sacrifice the FP in Shanghai so that we can have a second core. What do you think?

 

[TedJackson]

Originally posted by mad-bax
Good grief Ted: The gods look down on us and smile. The problem with palace jumping now for me is that the capital is the best site. I think I have to retract my palace jump suggestion.

I've thought about it a bit more and I have to agree with with you.

Originally posted by mad-bax
The dot map is interesting. If you consider where shanghai and green spot are now and then move your red spot 1 tile East then we could make a 5.5 tile RCP ring around the capital. Yellow spot doesn't get the whale anyway so could be moved one tile north.

I'm not sure that moving Red 1E would end up on a river I guess it depends on how long we envisage that site staying pop 6 or less.

I meant that we could settle Yellow and get a BG 2NW or settle 1SE of Yellow and get the Whale. But 1N is just as good, better if we go for RCP at 5.5.

Originally posted by mad-bax
The terrain is green and lush, but devoid of any bonuses at all. The furs are a relief and we should get them hooked up probably as a priority as you say. I can't see a good settler factory site, other than the capital. I would say that maybe a settler factory is not really feasible.

I agree, it was one of the factors in my decision not to build a granary in Bejing.

Originally posted by mad-bax
The Russians will pop all our huts for us which means the race for the early wonders is already on. I am confident now that we can get the Collosus in the capital and the pyramids in Shanghai, but I do worry that the Oracle may elude us. I'm wondering (since this is not a race) whether delaying the temple in the capital will help win the race for the Oracle.

We were very lucky to pop 2 techs straight off. Mysticism will come in handy for bargaining with Russia.

As this is Civ 1.29 I'm wondering whether we actually have a single landmass. Just something to be aware of. It could work to our advantage either way.

Pyramids are always an option. I lean toward the Oracle because of the happiness benefit, especially considering the dearth of luxuries so far.

Originally posted by mad-bax
Also I would be delighted if Japan are nearby, so we can get the wheel and see if we have horses anywhere nearby.

No horses! That would be a kick in the teeth. Don't even think about it.

Originally posted by mad-bax
Overall I don't think we could have wished for a better start. Good turns Ted. I think we could be in for a great game.

Absolutely agree with those sentiments Mad-bax

One other thing. If we are going to pursue RCP then our second ring should probably be at 9 or 10. 9 would result in touching cultural borders whereas at 10 we would have "island cities" until their first cultural expansioin.


regards

Ted

 

[andvruss]

This is just my opinion: it is way too early but I think that having a FP would not be too beneficiary, because it is right next to the captial. However, if we palace jump or some other situation comes up, I guess that would be fine.

 

[TedJackson]

RCP map looks OK to me, although the lay of the land will decide about a second ring.

From what we can see at present I think that the Forbidden Palace will end up in someone else's Capital preferably built by a Great Leader


regards

Ted

 

[mad-bax]

andvruss: I absolutely agree that having the FP next door to the capital is not necessarily a bad thing, and since culture is the name of the game Shanghai is the obvious place for it. My concern is that our Capital is on the coast so we will only have 1 definite core, and corruption will hurt us more.

Having said that, to Jump the palace away from the present capital later in the game with a leader would only cost us 2 culture per turn and we could pick the perfect spot. I think your idea is good.

 

[a space oddity]

This indeed looks like a great start! It's been ages since I've seen so many free techs at the start . Does any of you know what the cultural value is of the FP? Remember the double values for ancient buildings, we should be careful what to switch. I personally find one very strong core appealing, that would be like a 2CC, but with added cities to produce troops for the occational warring.

edit: Mad we cross posted, I agree the core would be more effective if it's not on the coast. The world is large, yes? So corruption could be less of a problem in the first stages.