But if we build our FP near our capital, and have only 1 core, that will severely limit our cash flow, military units, and scientific research. The AI would expand faster and therefore be a lot bigger. However, if we can get a good portion of land, we should have a comfortable start through the ancient age......we will see what happens.
mb1 20K double whammy
- Thread starter mad-bax
- Start date
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
If we're thinking of building the FP in Shanghai with a view to a later palace jump and we're going to use RCP then we should base our dotmap on Shanghai rather than Bejing.
This means we can move Red back onto the river for a 5.5 ring. Green will be off in the great unknown and Yellow is not in the game plan at the moment.
regards
Ted
This means we can move Red back onto the river for a 5.5 ring. Green will be off in the great unknown and Yellow is not in the game plan at the moment.
regards
Ted
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
Just so everyone can see what i meant:
Settle Red then Green. The Blues site is more viable for a short-termer than before as it's at distance 6.5 from Shanghai.
regards
Ted
Settle Red then Green. The Blues site is more viable for a short-termer than before as it's at distance 6.5 from Shanghai.
regards
Ted
Hello everyboy.
Just got back from a massive wedding party. So, my first comments may be affected by the last alcohol residuals...
I like a lot the idea of RCP around Shangai. I think that's a set point in our plan.
I'm not too happy with relying on a leader to move the Palace around: We may already have to 'waste' one to get an Army (for the Heroic Epic -4 cp- and Military Academy -1 cp), and in my last games I never got one when I really needed it... (By the way, IIRC the culture value of the FP is 2).
Let me throw down an idea.
- Jump the palace from Beijing to Shanghai.
- Next city in the red spot: this one, plus Shanghai, will be the Wonder Cities.
- After the jump, re-found Beijing and rush a Granary: use Bei as Settler-Workers factory (with some occasional units).
- The FP wherever
The reason behind this is that I can't see any other good food-producing site than our Holy Cow...
And if Beijing has to produce wonders, it won't be able to get many settlers out.
Well, I haven't spent too much time thinking about this: consider it as part of a brainstorming -if it won't work, just rule it out.
P.S. Got the save.
Just got back from a massive wedding party. So, my first comments may be affected by the last alcohol residuals...
I like a lot the idea of RCP around Shangai. I think that's a set point in our plan.
I'm not too happy with relying on a leader to move the Palace around: We may already have to 'waste' one to get an Army (for the Heroic Epic -4 cp- and Military Academy -1 cp), and in my last games I never got one when I really needed it... (By the way, IIRC the culture value of the FP is 2).
Let me throw down an idea.
- Jump the palace from Beijing to Shanghai.
- Next city in the red spot: this one, plus Shanghai, will be the Wonder Cities.
- After the jump, re-found Beijing and rush a Granary: use Bei as Settler-Workers factory (with some occasional units).
- The FP wherever
The reason behind this is that I can't see any other good food-producing site than our Holy Cow...
And if Beijing has to produce wonders, it won't be able to get many settlers out.
Well, I haven't spent too much time thinking about this: consider it as part of a brainstorming -if it won't work, just rule it out.
P.S. Got the save.
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2003
- Messages
- 5,242
Hi Karasu: So who was the best man?
If you are comfortable with not being able to build the coastal wonders then thats fine with me. We're not going for a record finish date after all.
We don't have to do the palace jump immediateley do we? Why can't we just make the current capital into a settler factory now and jump the Palace at sometime around the government change?
There sure are a lot of options open to us. It's easier when there is only one way to go.
If you are comfortable with not being able to build the coastal wonders then thats fine with me. We're not going for a record finish date after all.
We don't have to do the palace jump immediateley do we? Why can't we just make the current capital into a settler factory now and jump the Palace at sometime around the government change?
There sure are a lot of options open to us. It's easier when there is only one way to go.
It was the first 'civil ceremony' I ever went to. Very nice, though. I wish my friends wedded more often... 
You're right there. It would not be nice to miss the Colossus, but I am a bit concerned of not having a fast early expansion.
Right now, I couldn't say for sure which of the two should be given priority.
That's also true. Cant' be too late if we want a RCP around Shanghai, but doing it now would hurt us (I told you I do have bad ideas, didn't I?).
I think the major decision is whether we want to start building wonders in Beijing (no disbanding for the Palace jump, possibly no more settlers), or keep on building settlers (no wonders).
You're right there. It would not be nice to miss the Colossus, but I am a bit concerned of not having a fast early expansion.
Right now, I couldn't say for sure which of the two should be given priority.
That's also true. Cant' be too late if we want a RCP around Shanghai, but doing it now would hurt us (I told you I do have bad ideas, didn't I?).
I think the major decision is whether we want to start building wonders in Beijing (no disbanding for the Palace jump, possibly no more settlers), or keep on building settlers (no wonders).
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
My main objection to Karasu's suggestion is no coastal city = no Colossus which is a pretty good culture shop at 3cpt (only costing 200shields) and early enough to double.
I think we should wait for the Red site to be settled and see if there are any food bonuses in the radius before committing ourselves either way.
Just my take on the situation.
Ted
I think we should wait for the Red site to be settled and see if there are any food bonuses in the radius before committing ourselves either way.
Just my take on the situation.
Ted
Originally posted by mad-bax
inudog: I'd like you to play. Since you are so unreliable
I would like to be put on the roster, under those conditions if that is OK with everyone.
Does anyone know the break down of dates relative to turns? Like at what point it goes form 50 years per turn to 20 years per turn? I remember seeing it posted somewhere, but I cant for the life of me remember where. The reason I ask is because I have an idea for an Excel worksheet that could calculate past, present, and future culture. The dates would be needed for doubling bonuses.
I think I have to agree with TedJackson about the palace situation. I would say plan a RCP around Shanghai. It can be our forbidden palace site. I would say leave the palace in Beijing at least for now. Maybe that water NW of Shanghai will reveal a better coastal site, but I think that it might take too long to get a settler out and the city set up to start producing culture. I could be wrong though.
I think if we established a settler factory within our next two cities we should be all right, depending on how close the nearest AI is.
At any rate, I think a little bit more exploration of our surroundings will enlighten us quite a bit.
Off Topic:
Banff is amazing for skiing unless you have torn ACL, which has kept me from skiing for three seasons in a row now. Going for my second surgery in the fall (Yeah!
). And I actually went fly fishing for the first time yesterday. I could definitely get into that a lot more! 
inudog
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
Use Bejing to produce Settlers for both the Red and Green sites and see if they offer any new options.
I guess that will be "crunch-time"
regards
Ted
Wanderer
King
Hey Mad etc. I'm here for the double party .... at it seems like the beers have already been finished !!
@Mad - sorry - only just got to you're PM now. Still, I see you're accepting players until 10ad, so hopefully you'll allow me on board.
It'll sure be interesting ... I've only ever done a 20K once before - The much-missed Tournament Season 4 had a game for that, if I remember correctly ... sigh
Anyway, it being 1:24 am, I'm gonna stumble into bed, and try and catch up tomorrow, (and see if you'll have a poor lost wanderer like myself ...)
CiaO
@Mad - sorry - only just got to you're PM now. Still, I see you're accepting players until 10ad, so hopefully you'll allow me on board.
It'll sure be interesting ... I've only ever done a 20K once before - The much-missed Tournament Season 4 had a game for that, if I remember correctly ... sigh
Anyway, it being 1:24 am, I'm gonna stumble into bed, and try and catch up tomorrow, (and see if you'll have a poor lost wanderer like myself ...)
CiaO
I agree with the objections against loosing the Colossus.
In fact, I did some more scouting: here what happened.
Turn 1 - 3000 BC
First warrior goes looking North, the second towards the Fur.
Turn 2 - 2950 BC
Move warriors
Worker finishes road to Shanghai. Set it to work BG W of Shanghai.
Turn 3 - 2900 BC
Shanghai builds warrior, which will go exploring W. Start another one (after which I would start a GW).
Worker starts mine.
Move warriors
Beijing grows to pop 3, raise luxury to 10% to avoid riots (strange that I remembered...).
Turn 4 - 2850 BC
Move warriors
Turn 5 - 2800 BC
Move warriors. The North looks ok -nothing special though.
The west has another Cattle -so much for the previous discussions....
Settler in Beijing is ready. Start Worker.
The second Settler will go to found a city in the cattle area. As the level is Regent, I think we can survive some more turns before connecting to the luxury.
Turn 6 - 2750 BC
More scouting
Turn 7 - 2710 BC
There is a Wheat + Fish to the North. They are inconveniently located one tile too far for RCP.
Turn 8 - 2670 BC
Shanghai builds Warrior. Started Pyramids (can be changed to anything without loosing shields).
The warrior will go a short way South to see beyond that mountain (there is potentially room for another RCP city there).
Turn 9 - 2640 BC
Beijing builds worker. Start Colossus (again, can be changed to anything).
Turn 10 - 2590 BC
Founded Canton at 5.5 from Shanghai. Upon border expansion, it will also get a Game. Started Granary.
The Upload File doesn't seem to work. I will try to post the screenshot later on.
In a few words:
1. We discovered a high-food area west of Shanghai, with Cattle and Game within reach of a single city. I founded Canton there at RCP distance, delaying the Luxury city.
I started a Granary in Canton, with the idea of having the two workers clear the forest East of it (and possibly pop-rushing later on) before connecting it to Shanghai.
2. I set the two other cities to Wonders, as I was a bit worried of starting them too late..
You can keep it this way and wait some turns before getting new settlers out, or we can keep on using Beijing as settler city until Canton is operational.
EDIT: If I still can't upload the save within a few hours, I will PM it or e-mail it around.
In fact, I did some more scouting: here what happened.
Turn 1 - 3000 BC
First warrior goes looking North, the second towards the Fur.
Turn 2 - 2950 BC
Move warriors
Worker finishes road to Shanghai. Set it to work BG W of Shanghai.
Turn 3 - 2900 BC
Shanghai builds warrior, which will go exploring W. Start another one (after which I would start a GW).
Worker starts mine.
Move warriors
Beijing grows to pop 3, raise luxury to 10% to avoid riots (strange that I remembered...).
Turn 4 - 2850 BC
Move warriors
Turn 5 - 2800 BC
Move warriors. The North looks ok -nothing special though.
The west has another Cattle -so much for the previous discussions...
. Settler in Beijing is ready. Start Worker.
The second Settler will go to found a city in the cattle area. As the level is Regent, I think we can survive some more turns before connecting to the luxury.
Turn 6 - 2750 BC
More scouting
Turn 7 - 2710 BC
There is a Wheat + Fish to the North. They are inconveniently located one tile too far for RCP.
Turn 8 - 2670 BC
Shanghai builds Warrior. Started Pyramids (can be changed to anything without loosing shields).
The warrior will go a short way South to see beyond that mountain (there is potentially room for another RCP city there).
Turn 9 - 2640 BC
Beijing builds worker. Start Colossus (again, can be changed to anything).
Turn 10 - 2590 BC
Founded Canton at 5.5 from Shanghai. Upon border expansion, it will also get a Game. Started Granary.
The Upload File doesn't seem to work. I will try to post the screenshot later on.
In a few words:
1. We discovered a high-food area west of Shanghai, with Cattle and Game within reach of a single city. I founded Canton there at RCP distance, delaying the Luxury city.
I started a Granary in Canton, with the idea of having the two workers clear the forest East of it (and possibly pop-rushing later on) before connecting it to Shanghai.
2. I set the two other cities to Wonders, as I was a bit worried of starting them too late..
You can keep it this way and wait some turns before getting new settlers out, or we can keep on using Beijing as settler city until Canton is operational.
EDIT: If I still can't upload the save within a few hours, I will PM it or e-mail it around.
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
Sounding good Karasu
It looks as if civfanatics.net is down. You could try attaching the save.
regards
Ted
It looks as if civfanatics.net is down. You could try attaching the save.
regards
Ted
It always gives problems with 'detaching' it, but let's try it.
Here is the save:
Here is the save:
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
Seems to have worked fine for me Karasu.
regards
Ted
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2003
- Messages
- 5,242
Worked for me too. Surprised we don't have contacts yet. I hope we're not on an island to ourselves. It's supposed to be pangea.
Andvruss: You're up. Please wait 24hrs before playing to allow for discussion.
Canton is a great site. The wheat/fish site could not be more awkwardly placed. I would tend to favour settling on the river to get the wheat, and just forgoe the fish. But it's only my opinion.
So far so good.
Andvruss: You're up. Please wait 24hrs before playing to allow for discussion.
Canton is a great site. The wheat/fish site could not be more awkwardly placed. I would tend to favour settling on the river to get the wheat, and just forgoe the fish. But it's only my opinion.
So far so good.
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
I did mention earlier that we couldn't rely on it being a single landmass in Vanilla Civ.
I'd second that view.
No other suggestions from me as there is still too much unknown territory to do more than guess.
regards
Ted
But it shouldn't be far away in that case, reachable with galleys surely. Or maybe it's just a narrow land bridge that defeats the programming (one can always hope, right?
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