MB4 - GOTM24 Redux [ptw]

Summary:

Takeda destroyed the Tokugawa. We got chemistry and navigation,
but had to pay 70g to get the 2nd tech. We're behind a bunch still.

A leader was created on the last turn of attacking the Kuroda city. They are not eliminated, must have a settler somewhere.

The save

Log of last 5 turns -- see previous post for earlier turns.

Turn 5, 600 AD, 437g+80gpt

Vet Samurai defeats regular Kuroda Otomo, promotes
Land another Kensai on other side of island, as bait
Move Samurai and Otomo so they can't be counterattacked in 1 move
At Hamamatsu, vet samurai defeats elite samurai
Move injured units back

IBT
Takeda complain about troops, promise to move
Kuroda archer kills "bait" kensai
Kyoto completes walls, starts kensai (30 turns, following player can change if desired)
Ise completes Samurai, starts arquebusier (musket, 3 turns)
New Ise completes worker, starts another
Tanabe completes agashiru, starts Kublai Junk (caravel, 20 turns)
Handa completes samurai, starts arquebusier (5)
Sakai riots due to WW, entertainer (for now)
Hikone completes samurai, starts another
TehJay completes agashiru, starts worker (2, food shortage)
The people love me :) added left wing to palace

Turn 6, 610 AD, 526g+83gpt

Vs. Kuroda, elite samurai loses to reg. otomo
Otomo moves to pillage saltpeter (should have done that before)

Assault on Hamamatsu (toku capitol)
vet sam vs vet agashiru retreats without scoring
vet sam vs vet agashiru dies but redlines opponent
3/4 sam vs vet agashiru dies but redlines
vet sam vs reg agashiru wins
vet sam vs vet otomo wins untouched
elite sam defeats redlined agashiru
2/4 sam defeats last redlined agashiru, we can capture the oracle.
here's an interesting little problem to have, as is it is a flip risk, and the oracle
is obsolete and has no value, but the town is on the perfect tile. Install a new
governor and run the flip risk, or raze the city and risk not getting a settler there?

Decided to keep it and get ready to rush a temple. It does have 2 outer squares in
control of a rival, but hopefully we can manage the flip potential.

Sent several wounded samurai to Hamamatsu to control resistors and heal

Tokugawa are down to 3 cities, and we have 4 turns remaining on the deal with Takeda.
Straight tech peace terms are chemistry, or economics + navigation.
We can get chemistry+navigation or chemistry+economics for peace+110g

Even with cavalry, it seems unlikely that Takeda would take them out in one turn,
so let's delay and see if it is possible to outlast the alliance.

Send a bunch of samurai towards Morayama-ku to take care of Kuroda once and for all

IBT
Takeda complain about troops again (an auto move landed us next to Ina), we move
Mori parade continues
Hamamatsu hires 2 taxmen
Winegaki completes samurai, starts another (9)
Yaizu riots (WW), entertainer
Owase riots (WW), taxman
Ogaki completes harbor, starts library (16)
Shimazu building Smith's
Takeda took the new Toku capitol, doesn't look like they will last another turn.

Turn 7, 620 AD, 614g+92gpt.

Peace with Toku, buy chemistry, navigation for 70g.
Move more samurai toward meeting with Kuroda
Science to 30%, +3gpt, Metallurgy in 20

Trade, we're down Metallurgy, Physics, Democracy, Economics to several civs.

IBT
Kuroda and Takeda sign alliance against Toku
Wakayama produces Kensai, starts catapult
Ichinomiya produces worker, starts arquebusier (20)
Han are building Newtons

Turn 8, 630 AD, 548g+0gpt, metallurgy in 18

MM, fire several entertainers

Upgrade a warrior to kensai for 40g
continue moving units toward Kuroda island
move samurai on kuroda island away to avoid attack

IBT
Takeda destroy tokugawa
Mori troops head home
Hamamatsu resistence ends
Ise arque->arque
TehJay worker->library (20)
Gogury building Bach's
Chosogabe building Smith's
Mori Smiths
takeda smith
takeda newton

Turn 9, 640 AD, 502g-9gpt, metallurgy in 18

More samurai to Kuroda island, ready next turn

IBT
elite sam defeats kuroda archer on defense
Azuchi samurai->samurai(5)
Morayama-ku samurai->samurai(9)
Shakasani gets entertainer
New Azuchi temple->harbor(40)
Gogury building Smith's
Han building Bach's
Chosogabe building Bach's
Chosogabe building Newton's
Koreans building Bach's
Takeda building Bach's

Turn 10, 650 AD, 493g-11gpt, Metallurgy in 16

vs Kuroda:
Vet samurai loses to reg otomo
vet samurai defeats reg otomo
elite 1/5 samurai defeats redlined otomo, wins, leader!
Kuroda city of Himeji is captured, 75g liberated. Producing harbor (40)
To my great surprise, Kuroda are not eliminated
We get 6gpt from Kuroda for peace (where can they be?)
Must be a settler somewhere, they have no cities listed on espionage page

Leader is on a boat ready for next player to decide what to do.

Firaxis score: 1261 (we are 2nd, Takeda has 1314)
 
Just posted on another SG and after posting I saw that Dave had finished. Took a quick look at save to refresh (I'll play tomorrow) and when I looked for deals on Econ to possibly rush Smiths I can't get one. Only cash on the barrel head. I pulled up the 550AD save to see what deals were there and it looks like we are still paying on all of them. Go figure.
Can someone else verify this problem for me? It could be really bad.
Also any recommendations for our future strategy is, as always, greatly appreciated.

Got it
 
I hope it's not me. I checked the deals with Toku before attacking and there were none. The peace with Kuroda came up in an inter turn, so it was either making the deal for another 20 turns or declare and no way to check for current deals, but I don't think we had, did we?
 
There were 3 turns left on the MA with Takeda vs Tokugawa, does making peace with a MA active count? Now I hope I didn't make the wrong strategic decision by getting tech before they were gone by breaking it :(
 
IIRC the MA is broken also if one civ kills the AI the MA was against, so even if you didn't make peace the MA would be broken. :( This shouldn't affect the gpt deals though, it will affect the ability to make MA's.
 
DaveShack: :goodjob: on the tech acquisition and the Leader.

That's two AI in the history bin, so who is the next target for our Medieval War Machine? The Mori to the east? The Takeda to the west? A nearby island victim? We will need to strike quick unless you like Samurai against cavalry & rifles :suicide:

As for leader usage, I'm not really fond of spending for non-required techs (Economics) when we're behind on tech. Magellan's not a bad choice (if it's not yet built), considering we've got another island to conquer. It would be nice to be able to get Newton's, but 2 techs is probably too long to wait. Maybe waiting for Military Tradition (the only non-req'd tech I would go for) and building a Military Academy might be an idea. Actually, now that I've typed all that, trying for Economics & Smith's is probably the best plan.

Are we currently at peace with everyone?

What deals are currently in effect, opponent size/power and accessabliity are the factors we'll need to consider to our next victim. If would be nice to keep it a land war and use our other neighbor as an ally (as opposed to an opponent).

Banzai Barbslinger :ninja:
 
I just looked at the save and what I think we need right now is get a second core up and running. What we need to decide is whether it will be the former Kuroda lands or where Toku was. if the latter then we should consider Yok Revenge. We could use the leader to do a Palace jump.
 
Excellent point and a much better selection for this leader.

Have we built a Forbidden Palace yet (too many games at once :confused: )?

Yok's Revenge is probably a good location for the Palace.

A question though, Yok's Revenge is a little close to two fully developed cores, would we intend on using a future leader for another palace jump to the Han island once operations begin over there?

:beer:
 
I pondered that very question last night while checking the save. I have pretty much decided to go with Wakayama in Kuroda area. Our GPT will drop a bit initially but once we take the three Mori towns on our borders and hopefully flip Shimazu it will quickly become a military producer deluxe. If there are no exceedingly compelling viewpoints it will go to Wakayama, culture push/shield development in towns there while pop grows and then military. I will try to rush the necesary builds in our current N core sites to decrease palace loss corruption.
I think my turns will involve staying out of war and development for next war. Speaking of which, who is next? I feel getting the Mori dual saltpeter sites would be best. They are supplying someone else so it would hurt two civs. The Takada salt is right near the border and we should be able to secure that later easily enough. I think that would give us all saltpeter on our continent. Getting Takada to ally against Mori would help a lot too because with Takada troops split up in Mori lands we can pick off the healed units on the way home. Well thats my take on a plan :) My turns hopefully will be uneventful.
The rep problem is another matter all together. :( . How to recover:confused: I guess if it is truly blown, I only looked to see about GPT deals, then we need libraries Uni's ASAP or we are a long way from MT.
Another thing I noticed is that the Samurai have the same defense as the Arqbruisters. Sam upgrade to Cavs. I will try to find a couple cities where the shields divide into bruister cost to get more of those but I will be primarily going Sams.
 
Oh well,

back to "Pointy Stick" research :)


Ted
 
I favor Wakayama, too for the FP. That would imply that we go after the Mori next.
It looks like we might face cavs in any next war. Have the Mori cavs yet? That could be arkward.

Good luck Barbslinger.
 
Things look good hit enter

IBT – Takada makes demands and since rep may be blown and we’re heading to pointy stick tech research I tell him to stick it and he proceeds to take 5 of our newly acquired cities with 30-40 cav and moves a cav force towards our core. Fished in!

On with the game

F1 check - Kobe, Kyoto, Nagahama, New Azuchi, Shaka and Yaizu fire entertainers. Slider to 20%. GPT from-5 to +43. Metallurgy in 12.
Lux slider is 40gpt to slide back to 10% so no deals will be needed for lux.
F3 check – 36 offensive, 42 defensive, 13 pults, 4 junks. Looks low. Weak to Takada (Cavs, I bet we have more units). Average to Mori. Strong to rest.
F4 – World at peace, All annoyed except, Baekje and Gogo’s. Well our rep may not be blown after all. I dialed down all sliders to test, but this seems rather steep to me. Is this kinda blown rep pricing? We only have 16 left on Metallurgy.

MB4-650-deal.jpg


Deals left are – Korea, straight 2-1 lux trade. Shimazu we’re getting 12 back in 1 turn. Takada has 9 left of him paying us 15gpt for dyes. Choso, for now our preferred trading partner, we’re getting 49gpt back next turn and hes paying us 3 turns of 8 and 10 turns of 16. Mori has 4 turns left on a ROP which is getting cancelled.

F8- Our power with Kuroda measures nearly identical. We are at 495 -5gpt.

Do some MM’ing. Give Komaki the horse tile to get market in 2. Move some cities that need aquaducts to lower food, higher shields. Switch Nagoya, Hikone, Ogaki, Kuromo, Yokkachi to courts that I will rush before palace jump. Koromositu from temple to library because it won’t need the expansion when Hamma and Yok revenge expand, and we need libraries. Rush Kumano temple to bring in saltpeter. Accidentally rushed Owase temple with a fat finger. These high food acquisitions should turn into 10 turn worker farms until we can jump palace over to there. Was going to start redeploying western forces to east but Takada IS scary. New Arque in Ise heads to coast to await move to Salt on island.

IBT – Takada demands 39. We’re not going to war against Cavs so I acquiesce. However it gives me the idea for my opening comments. Haha again.
Suzuka – Bank > Samurai; Handa – Arque > Library; Owase – Temple > Worker; Kumano – Temple > Walls; Press-1 Worker – Sam (palace soon to help); Koromositu – Worker > Library
Mori starts Bach’s

660AD – turn 1
Looks like I have a lot of worker doings this turn. No play by play but plan is to move some to new palace area to jump shields. Mine any hills, especially bordering rivers and get a better road network to western front. Coming back to the mainland to a parade in his honor is Kuki the Saltpeter Conqueror with few samurai as body guards for the channel crossing. The populace by an overwhelming margin decided that naming the new Capital Kukiyama will proceed. Begin roading salt that was pillaged before. I never understood that one. Kuroda’s back was broken. Any deal they were giving selling it was going to break when we captured and they had too few shields/pop to build an arque which has the same defense as a sam. Changed some of the western acquisitions to low food and a taxman. They would be a pain if they grow a lot with no temple etc. In fact, Hammamatsu is 3 happy/ 3 unhappy, tax-tax-tax-clown. You get the tax money I see.

Diplo – Check the shimazu metal deal again and its down to 220+wool but no 567g. Econ can be had for 140gpt. Drop slider to 10% and only Azuchi needs a taxman. Still get sam in 4, grow in one. Metal comes in 1 turn earlier at 6.

IBT – Mori heading home still.
Ise – Arque > Lib
Komaki – Arq > Lib
New Iida – worker > worker
Shimazu start Bachs

670AD – turn 2
Just noticed Pressure-1 has a 2 tile bite out of Niimi. Flip time! Set all new palace cities to high food. Shoot, I forgot I need to rush courts so I set sci-slider back a bit. I may have to delay palace jump 1-2 turns. Kuki’s needs 3 turns to get there because he’s hitting every geisha house along the way having had to stop in Winegaki and enjoy the local offerings. Azuchi with growth stuck at 12 goes to clown. Weird in the capital but with pop stuck at 12 and can’t get any more shields I can’t justify 40some gpt. Kuki likes clowns anyhow. Moving some junks towards Mori so they can make a surprise landing in Gifu when the time is right.

F1 – noticed when sliding to 0 lux there are 4 trouble cities. Azuchi lacking temple, Ise needs a cathedral, Kasugai and Suzuka need a temple. Suzuka is working on it. Others are going over to save 40gpt. Wondering if palace move will affect happiness in Azuchi?
Diplo – Price now 180 gpt for metal. Think I’ll wait.

IBT – Takada moves 2 sams to the border of Hammamatsu. Hopefully those guys were just out for saki and wanted to see how the better half lives.
Azuchi – Temple > Sam
Nagoya – Court > Lib
Kasugai – Rushed for 20g Sam > Temple in 6, probably to be rushed in a few.
Embichi – Cat > hmm. Was going to go worker. It’s 50% corrupt so I think Aquaduct.

680AD - turn 3
Mori with 1 turn left on ROP is still camped out at Kasugai supposedly on their way home. 5 sams, 4 kensai , bowman and archer in striking distance. I shuffled thru 4 cities to get another agashiru there along with the arque I had moved there earlier to join a sam, otomo, spearman and 2 pults. Hope they are still heading home. Kuki wants no war until he gets his Kurodan land grant proceesed and palace built. Possibly later because that nutty Kuki heard there are sheep grazing nearby that he wants to inspect. Azuchi back to a taxman with new temple. MM’ed cites on N core to get courts sooner now that Nagoya court is done. Kuki, our traveling hero, stops in Kobe and while in mid celebration asks a Kurodan worker that is roading or mining our mountain about that town named Tottori and why he isn’t working their land. In secretive whispers the worker tells Kuki they yearn to be Odan. I also remembered we will need more ships so I ****ched Sakai over to junk due in 2. Well lets see how Mori like the idea of no more ROP with their 2 towns in the middle of our territory. I since negative war weariness coming up someday when Kukis samurai guards tell them to get the hell out of Kobes borders.

IBT – guess ROP expiration its next turn. It did say (1) ROP now it is just plain ROP. Now a Takada cav jumps on the mountain bordering Yoks revenge. Mori continue exodus. Choso comes in re-offering the paltry 8GPT for dyes we gace him before. I try to renegotiate and can only squeeze 4gpt from him so I tell his emissary to get they’re treasury in order because we will want 10-16 gpt when they want dyes later. They have to have more pop than before.
Hikone – Court > Sam

690AD – turn 4
The sams from the island continue west to shore up the front. Moving one across I see 2 more Takada cav behind the one on Yok revenge mountain. I better give Takada something soon. Kuki makes it to Watsayama. Wish I knew how much gpt will drop on palace jump. Kuki decides he will party a little longer to let court rush cost fall. He has also heard rumblings of Takada border sightings and is inquiring for volunteers for a possible army. There are also 2 Taka sams in neutral land next to our salt. Edit[The same guys that were near Hammamatsu.] I don’t like the smell of this.
Diplo has metal down to a lot less, 80gpt. It’s due in 3 but I slide research off to try and make deal. When it comes in Gogo should have physics for us in trade. Hope it holds.
F1 still holding tight. Mori deal on the table for sure this time and Takada looking ornery. Pressing enter.

IBT – Mori wants the deal and for for giggles I check 1 dollar added on and advisor said never! I gave world map for his territory map since I couldn’t get it straight across. The 2 Taka sams slide over again to have a look at Hammamatsu. They really like that place. The HAN and TAKADA sign MPP. Some one is planning a fight.
Suzuka – Temple > Sam
Yokkaichi – Court > Sam
Sakai – Junk > Junk
Kika-ku – Sam > Worker, it’s maxed at 6. Changed mind. It makes 5 shields and will take forever to get back to 6. It is 5spt and no extra food.
Shakashani - > It’s 30 turn Kensai comes in and goes for 80 turn courthouse.
 
700AD – turn 5
Tehjay - 188g court rush
Koromo - 88g court
Kwanaka – 96g court
We’re at 47g +24gpt and Kuki is ready to settle down in a palace being built for him. Check Choso again on the dyes and he coughs up 18gpt. I thought so. Shimazu gives 20gpt for wool. I think I have been weeding that one. Probably could have had it earlier. Well, now we’re +62gpt. Metal in 2. Gogo deal still waiting with wool and wine to grease the deal for physics. I give Baekje Banking for WM + 4g to see whats up over there. Nothing.

IBT – Takada and Gogo sign MPP. Mori saki drinking sams call it a night a stumble out of Takada fog far from home. Check on kicking them out and it could be war. Mori also has a single Kensai on OUR hill outside of Kasugai and about 10 other dudes behind him in Yonago and it may be war if we kick him out. What to do, what to do.
Ise – Cath > Lib
Kukiyama – Palace > Market
Koromo – Court > Kensai in 10
Winegaki – Sam > Lib
TJ – Court > Sam in 11
Kwanak – Cout > Sam

710 – turn 6
Palace jump income goes to +83 and will improve. I continue moving/shuffling troops to cover eastern front. The sam pair are sitting on a patch of forest next to Koromositu. I’m switching to walls. I put another sam in there too to discourage them and switch Kokomo, 2 tiles away, to walls due next turn wasting 3s.
I have a plan. With Gogo signed to MPP with Takada I think I can get an MPP with them next turn when I make metal deal for physics. I declare on Korea and “shazam” Takada takes their aggression across the seas. We’ll, of course send a complimentary force towards their land on a junk bound to nowhere. Well lets see, 106 for an embassy 1st.
Kaesong- 15spt, in anarchy because they got democracy, all the buildings you want up to cath, coliseum and bank. Smiths with far to little shields in box to make it. 6 lux, 4 defenders and a pult. WTH. I can’t MPP with them. Or with Mori, only Takada. Am I missing something? Civlopedia gives no clue.
My eye is on sam pair with fingers crossed. If they attack we will have the Han and Gogo coming to visit us. I’m afraid that is Takada plan. Devious. Well, here goes.

IBT – the pair move further in country next to a worker working. They could have snagged him. Will have to cover workers. Mori on our hill moves back to his country and I send a Sam out to cover hill.
Metal comes in > MT in 8 at current sci. Will look later at improving later.
Moriyama-ku – Temple > Cannon
Kokomo - Walls > Worker

720 – turn 7
Damn, metal to Gogo for Physics and he still wants 230gpt, wooland wine. No deal. Everyone has it but Baekje. WTH. I think rep is blown. If there was someone besides the broke Baekje I might do it. Looks like pointy stick in 8 turns. Mori does not have MT. Still can’t MPP with anyone but Takada. Embassy in Choso for 61.
Bachs in 18. All the build goodies with 8 luxes. 4 defenders I can’t ID and 2 workers, 17 spt. Still annoyed. I feel like a guy who stinks and doesn’t know it. Nobody wants to deal with me. Makes me want to ……. KILL. Whoops, was I typing that. Back to the game. Saltpeter on Kuki Isle finally hooks up. Will rush harbor when I get the cash. Wonder who needs some. No one. Bummer.
Well, checking in with the drunken sams from Mori I cover the workers and put another Sam in Kokomo. Rush Temple in Kasugai for 32g to hopefully complete the happiness upgrades planned at turn 2. Azuchi is again the only trouble spot. It’s not pleasant when a major city riots so it switches to Cathedral in 2. Our future city Niimi has another 1 tile bite taken out of it and Moriyama-ku expands in 4. It will flip.

Diplo – Blows. Gogo won’t even buy lux. Forget them guys.
F1 as noted above.

IBT – Those drunks make me laugh. I figured it out. That snow capped mountain on the real Japan map is Mt. Fuji. They must have had a bet on who could climb it first because one made it up, other movement happens and then the other went up.

MB4-730-deal.jpg


Kasugai – Temple > Sam
New Nagoya – Temple > Library, chop coming.
Palace gets the roof.
Koreans building Shakes
Shimazu city in our land gets a 2 tile bite taken from it. Flipping time!

730AD – turn 8
Well, we have a few more entertainers but lux at zero and gpt now +129. Shuffle a load of tiles to decrease builds and grow one city. Workers doing their thing
Diplo – Sliders back. Well now Gogo will give physics if we give him wool, wine and 210gpt and metallurgy. Has the world gone mad. I wonder if you bite the bullet on one tough deal if your credit improves. Am I wrong in thinking this pricing is way out of whack? Well, back to the saki drinking samurai show.

IBT – They are heading further in country going home. Some culture expansions no flips yet.
Azuchi – Cath > Sam
Yok Revenge – Temple > worker
Tanabe – Junk > Aquaduct
Handa – Lib > Sam, wanting a temple though
Komaki – Lib > Aquaduct

740AD – turn 9
Swapped Kasugai / Susuka tiles to get Susuka sam in 3. Kasugai is 17 now but it was 9. Swap back after build. Need to chop jungle. Changed a few builds and swapped some more tiles. Koromositu goes to worker to get something out of that 8 pop thieving city

Diplo – Same crap but one thing of note. Kuroda has picked up 2 bucks somewhere. Begging maybe. Gave him banking for WM and his last 16 bucks. Ironic, he gives me all his money with no city to his name so he can try to open a bank. Also I can get an MPP with Choso now. Whats the deal on when they are available?

IBT – Shizuoka – Arque > Temple to grab new irrigation. It’s pop 4.
Morayama-ku – Sam > Sam
New Azuchi – Harbor > Sam

750AD – turn 10
Nothing much. 2 new growths made tax men. Don’t like tax men on productive cities like New Azuchi is now but we’re saving a war chst for upgrades and cash rushes. Also, rep makes us pay cash or through the nose. Hamma matsu is configured with those tax men as stated in turn 1. Kuroda picked up a dollar again drifting at sea. Go figure.
Still in second at 1429, but my careful eye on F1 trying to generate cash and shields was probably detrimental to scoring since it is primarily dependent on happiness for my turns. No grabbing land this time around. Well, MT is due in 4, 3 if we spend the war chest of 280g +106gpt. Going 3 would cost –75gpt. 4 turns we’ll have 700g and can upgrade the defenses too. I think sams > cav are 20g@. Good luck Ted. I doublechecked F1. some workers are ready to do some chops near Tanabe for the aquaduct and then can continue to new core for improvements. I started this at midnight and it is now 9:20. Hope we can get the poity stick moving. We are still average to Mori and they have no cash to upgrade. Should be an advantage there. Flips are coming for sure with new palace and then 4 more cities will be producers and we are #1 in mfg goods. 3 in GNP. That will improve. We will need to soon out produce the competition to supply both fronts. Hopefully if we knock Mori back and get his saltpeter we can transfer to Takada and take his. Well, he has 3 so a triple pronged landing may be in order. 3 musket armys (I’m dreaming would do he trick). One last thing, I metioned it earlier about the sams having 4 defense. It may be wise when upgrading to only upgrade sams near Mori. the sams defending our eastern front should stay defense 4 in case Takada gets a hair up his toosh. We'll defense 4 and can then upgrade for counterstrike offense 6. I would still like to get them occupied elsewhere though, somehow.

The save below

Save 750AD
 
That's it, leave the dirty jobs for Ted, he won't mind :)

Good work on the Palace move and prep :thumbsup:

I'll pick up the save later but I won't play until tomorrow.


Ted
 
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