- Joined
- Oct 5, 2001
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McCarthyism bites back.
- Thread starter ainwood
- Start date
Greadius
:yeah:
The guy was a Maoist to the core. Its an embarassment we allowed his education at all.
The moral of the story: Don't lie to the INS... especially about such a sensitive issue so blatantly.
allan2
Gone Fishing
Talk about shooting ourselves in the foot!
There seems to be no real proof that Tsien was a communist, just the same sort of innuendo and hearsay that burned a lot of people during that witch-hunt period. I say, if we had respected the rules of evidence and the discipline of the rule of law, we wouldn't have made a bitter enemy of this valuable immigrant to our shores....
"The guy was a Maoist to the core. Its an embarassment we allowed his education at all."
He was? Really? From what I read in the article, there doesn't seem to be evidence of this at all. College students sitting around at a party and casually bouncing around strange political ideology hardly qualifies--hell, it goes on all the time. And in the 30s, communism was in its infancy, it was something new, and the USSR wasn't a threat to the US then. I'm sure a lot of naive young people discussed it favorably, because of its novelty in world affairs.
Big difference between that and being a cell member with orders from the Kremlin or from an infant communist movement in China. And the evidence doesn't prove the latter beyond a reasonable doubt--indeed, it doesn't even indicate compelling likelihood, in my mind anyway. And so he very well could have been truthful to the INS, in that he never worked to overthrow the government--he just discussed weird politics with college buds in the 30s.
As for the statements he made AFTER returning to China, well, after the kind of treatment he received, and a seemingly typical McCarthyist railroading, I could see MYSELF saying such things out of spite and bitterness had I suffered that treatment.
But all in all, he seemed like a dedicated technical scientist when all is said and done--his passion was for his work, not politics. At least this is how THIS article paints him. Maybe there is another view to see somewhere else though....
There seems to be no real proof that Tsien was a communist, just the same sort of innuendo and hearsay that burned a lot of people during that witch-hunt period. I say, if we had respected the rules of evidence and the discipline of the rule of law, we wouldn't have made a bitter enemy of this valuable immigrant to our shores....
"The guy was a Maoist to the core. Its an embarassment we allowed his education at all."
He was? Really? From what I read in the article, there doesn't seem to be evidence of this at all. College students sitting around at a party and casually bouncing around strange political ideology hardly qualifies--hell, it goes on all the time. And in the 30s, communism was in its infancy, it was something new, and the USSR wasn't a threat to the US then. I'm sure a lot of naive young people discussed it favorably, because of its novelty in world affairs.
Big difference between that and being a cell member with orders from the Kremlin or from an infant communist movement in China. And the evidence doesn't prove the latter beyond a reasonable doubt--indeed, it doesn't even indicate compelling likelihood, in my mind anyway. And so he very well could have been truthful to the INS, in that he never worked to overthrow the government--he just discussed weird politics with college buds in the 30s.
As for the statements he made AFTER returning to China, well, after the kind of treatment he received, and a seemingly typical McCarthyist railroading, I could see MYSELF saying such things out of spite and bitterness had I suffered that treatment.
But all in all, he seemed like a dedicated technical scientist when all is said and done--his passion was for his work, not politics. At least this is how THIS article paints him. Maybe there is another view to see somewhere else though....
Greadius
:yeah:
Since when has lying to the INS been acceptable?
Or coming into a country when you belong to a political orginization that advocates its destruction?
These things are fine & dandy?
Or coming into a country when you belong to a political orginization that advocates its destruction?
These things are fine & dandy?
- Joined
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- Messages
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Yes, you shouldn't lie to the INS.
.... But I thought that balances of opinion were fundamental principles in the US? Aren't people who want to bring down the US governmental system protected under the US constitution to freedom of speech?
(Don't shoot me if they're not, just askin')
.... But I thought that balances of opinion were fundamental principles in the US? Aren't people who want to bring down the US governmental system protected under the US constitution to freedom of speech?
(Don't shoot me if they're not, just askin')
As I read the article, he didn't knowingly lie. He never belonged to a group that advocated the overthrow of the US government. He belonged to a group of college kids who enjoyed partying and talking. That's all most of the so-called communists that McCarthy 'outed' were really doing.
Tsien didn't really become a member of the Communist Party until after the US deported him back to China. Like the article says, it was a horrific tactical error.
Greadius
:yeah:
There are a few dozen opinions on this one... Supreme Court has two general reasons why he was not protected:
1. Rights are guaranteed for U.S. citizens; if their rights are denied they'll be deported instead of compensated.
2. Bringing down the government is fine as long as its peaceful; advocating the violent overthrow (As per Communist doctrine) is part of that whole "Your freedom of speech is limited by the amount of danger it can cause (don't yell fire in a theatre) type of thing"
Its one of those things where its really dependant on the circumstance more than a cookie cutter rule. Pellaken wouldn't be deported for being a Communist. But as the article states, he had access to sensative information that he wouldn't have recieved if he wouldn't have lied to the INS (Communists don't get security clearences
). That is why the law came down harshly on him.Similar threads
