McCIV-01 Prince McShuffle
- Thread starter McLMan
- Start date
armstrong
Prince
Yikes, I found this on the second page!
Very nice turns, Thrar.
Switching off the worker was the right call, definitely. We're actually doing pretty well in all the demographics considering we only have two cities in 1300 BC 
I'm curious to hear your rationale for Mathematics - I'm not opposed to it, just wondering what you planned to do, uh, in the "after Math."
Are you thinking about going something along the lines Math -> Construction -> Currency -> Code of Laws to pave the way for an Axemen & Cats war with with Cyrus or Qin?
Woobi of course might be playing already, but I'm all for whipping out the settler. It gives us 5 free turns for our third city, so the overall whip ends up being worth 90 hammers + 5 hammers + 5 commerce + 15 food. Not a bad trade for 2 population
I'm definitely a big fan of the
- I tend to whip any city that's growing at at least +5 food or so about every 10 turns unless there's a big reason for needing the growth.
Here's how I generally look at it (this is in normal, non-Epic speeed): if you have a city producing no hammers (except for the city tile), and it grows at +5 food, if you whip it every ten turns from size 6 to 3 it will always grow back (and slowly grow towards size 7 and 8 before stagnating there.) So basically, you're trading growth for production. If that would make sense to do, what is the equivalent? Well, you're losing 3 pop, but you'll gain them back during the next turns, so they can work some tiles - minimally, there combined efforts should be at least as good as one tile. The happiness doesn't really affect you all that much, since you have So basically it's equivalent to moving two folks from commerce or food tiles onto plains hills to stagnate growth. That'd give you 80 hammers. So, it's about the same, but slavery gives you what you want now along with slightly better tile output.
The big drawback with Slavery is simply that it's a tricky beast to use. You need to whip as big as possible when you whip, but often times there's not an appropriate building/unit to leverage that with... Globe Theatre will solve this for one city, though
All in all, I think Slavery wins out. Now, if you have better tiles than plains hills, you don't want to whip the population so they can't work those without rethinking everything a bit. On the other hand, if you don't have any production, you gotta whip.
In fact, the only complaint I have at all about Slavery is that it prevents you from running Caste System.
Very nice turns, Thrar.
Switching off the worker was the right call, definitely. We're actually doing pretty well in all the demographics considering we only have two cities in 1300 BC I'm curious to hear your rationale for Mathematics - I'm not opposed to it, just wondering what you planned to do, uh, in the "after Math."
Are you thinking about going something along the lines Math -> Construction -> Currency -> Code of Laws to pave the way for an Axemen & Cats war with with Cyrus or Qin?Woobi of course might be playing already, but I'm all for whipping out the settler. It gives us 5 free turns for our third city, so the overall whip ends up being worth 90 hammers + 5 hammers + 5 commerce + 15 food. Not a bad trade for 2 population
I'm definitely a big fan of the
- I tend to whip any city that's growing at at least +5 food or so about every 10 turns unless there's a big reason for needing the growth.Here's how I generally look at it (this is in normal, non-Epic speeed): if you have a city producing no hammers (except for the city tile), and it grows at +5 food, if you whip it every ten turns from size 6 to 3 it will always grow back (and slowly grow towards size 7 and 8 before stagnating there.) So basically, you're trading growth for production. If that would make sense to do, what is the equivalent? Well, you're losing 3 pop, but you'll gain them back during the next turns, so they can work some tiles - minimally, there combined efforts should be at least as good as one tile. The happiness doesn't really affect you all that much, since you have So basically it's equivalent to moving two folks from commerce or food tiles onto plains hills to stagnate growth. That'd give you 80 hammers. So, it's about the same, but slavery gives you what you want now along with slightly better tile output.
The big drawback with Slavery is simply that it's a tricky beast to use. You need to whip as big as possible when you whip, but often times there's not an appropriate building/unit to leverage that with... Globe Theatre will solve this for one city, though
All in all, I think Slavery wins out. Now, if you have better tiles than plains hills, you don't want to whip the population so they can't work those without rethinking everything a bit. On the other hand, if you don't have any production, you gotta whip.
In fact, the only complaint I have at all about Slavery is that it prevents you from running Caste System.I didn't think much about the aftermath yet... 
I think I picked math because I didn't find anything that'd make a lot of sense immediately, and math is something we need sooner or later, and the better forest chops can help our southern cities get started, since there's a lot of forest down there.
I don't even remember what else there is currently possible for us to research, well, I really didn't put much thought in the tech choice. Up to you.
I think I picked math because I didn't find anything that'd make a lot of sense immediately, and math is something we need sooner or later, and the better forest chops can help our southern cities get started, since there's a lot of forest down there.
I don't even remember what else there is currently possible for us to research, well, I really didn't put much thought in the tech choice. Up to you.
McLMan
Afraid of the monkeys
armstrong said:
That it is! I'm going to need some help with it. I tend not to use it because I fear the loss of commerce.
Math isn't a bad choice. I think getting the chop bonus will be helpful in estabilishing our Southern cities.
Im just wondering what your thoughts are on the happiness limits we currently have in our cities. At the momment with the high food production it's not a problem because slavery can be really powerful and we use any excess population for units/buildings. In the longer run should we be thinking about monarchy and using heireditary rule allow the cities to grow larger? With the lack of happiness resources on the continent and no religions being spread I can see us being restricted with our city sizes.
armstrong
Prince
Paulsy said:
Yeah, I think Hereditary Rule is going to be necessary (Paganism Save the
!) The really annoying thing is that our one and only happiness resource requires Cathedrals for the +1 bonus (and we don't even have a religion yet to build those giant buildings!)I think what we really need to do, in general, is work out a long term plan to shoot for - at Epic speed, if we're not all focused and on the same page, it will be difficult to plan ahead too far with individuals just playing 10 turns without everyone being on the same page.
So, what are everyone's ideas for a "long-term" plan?
Personally, I think we have a three general options:1. War, and soon. After Math, grab Construction to start building cats, Alphabet for trading (and to see what techs our enemies have/who's furthest from Feudalism), settle 5-6 cities total (by which time we should be bumped up against Cyrus and/or Qin), and go after Cyrus or Qin with the goal of grabbing about three good city spots using Cats and Axes. It won't take us very long to build up a force of Cats if we employ the whip liberally. Then, focus on getting the empire-building technologies (Currency->Code of Laws), trade/extort for Monarchy and start growing our cities upwards as we stockpike more units, heading towards Civil Service/Machinery. Finish off Cyrus or Qin with Macemen+Cats, cottage spam/work the coast and we should have enough land to tech up to Liberalism -> (free) Nationalism -> Military Tradition, and then we can clear off our continent with overwhelming Cossacks. That should put us into a winning position.
2. Delay war a bit. Focus on settling the available land and getting Monarchy to grow our cities big, then beeline for Knights or Macemen + catapults, and fight a single war of destruction against Cyrus or Qin. Then, Cossacks!
3. Delay war a lot. Focus very seriously on commerce (Code of Laws, Civil Service, lots of academies, Metal Casting -> Colossus and work the coasts hard, Great Library, etc) for Liberalism -> Nationalism -> Military Tradition. Beat up Cyrus and Qin with Cossacks.
There's no option I see that doesn't involve war - we're simply not in a position to win without busting some skulls. With no religion yet, no Pyramids, and a large map, even a cultural win would be too tough, I think.
Personally, I'm normally more of a builder, but since war is inevitable I'd say the earlier the better and go for Door #1. Our production is relatively good right now, but doesn't look like it will improve that much later on - even if we got Cossacks when everyone had longbowmen, they're not going to help us if we can only one every 5 turns. What do you all think? How'd you go about it? I'm sure there are much better options than the ones I've thought off, too
McLMan said:
I'm still not used to thinking of Math as actually helping outside of the Gardens and opening up lots of useful techs.
I had no qualms with Math before, but remembering the chopping bonus it seems like a very good choice.I like the sound of #1 too, we've got an early advantage in production so i think we should use it. We could do with finding out where the iron is then targeting the civ without copper and iron (or more likely target the civ where the copper / iron is easier to pillage). Problem with that is we're going to have to research iron working and we have plenty of other things that need resarching at the mo.
I think #3 may be a bit too tough to pull off as we would almost be fighting 3 civs simultaneously. With no religion on our continent there is no "you have fallen under the sway of a heathen religion" which may make it hard for us to play 2 civs off against each other.
I think #3 may be a bit too tough to pull off as we would almost be fighting 3 civs simultaneously. With no religion on our continent there is no "you have fallen under the sway of a heathen religion" which may make it hard for us to play 2 civs off against each other.
McLMan
Afraid of the monkeys
Woobi said:
Woobi?
It's been more than 48, go ahead and pick it up Xtream.
armstrong
Prince
Paulsy said:
When I war, I generally don't worry about pillaging resources outside of horses... there are times when it might be optimal, but normally it's just easier to throw catapults at 'em
You can beat longbowmen with axemen, just bring enough of those cats Most of the AI's force is already built, it seems, so taking the resource doesn't make the war that much more difficult.
Xtream_Rockstar
THE D IS BACK
okay im picking up now right ???????
McLMan
Afraid of the monkeys
Xtream_Rockstar said:
Yes, we'll call that a "got it." 48 hours to play and post. Good Luck!!!
Xtream_Rockstar
THE D IS BACK
here is what happend my turn i did it by events that happend by turn i did play 20 turns
1- papa smurf begins cottage
2- Yuri Dies fighting barb bear and Xtreame rockstar Jr the worker is born in St. petersburg
3-Our Axeman PWNED a warrior
4- cyrus wanted open borders i accepted
5- Novograd built started on scout to replace yuri and Willy connected NovoGrad with St.petersburg
6- Some dude says we aint weathy on most weathy civs (we are like almost at the bottom)
7-Novograd expans
8- Libary is built in moscow starts on settler. Willy starts on Pig Pen
9- Mathmatics compleate and Started on Agriculture
here are some pics
Mathmatics
Novograd
St.Petersburg
Moscow
Oh yah whos idea was it to skip Agriculture because we have two reasources of corn and we need them for the heath bounus. but Novograd is also near some marble which could make some good wonders
on to ??? whos ever next
View attachment 125339
1- papa smurf begins cottage
2- Yuri Dies fighting barb bear and Xtreame rockstar Jr the worker is born in St. petersburg
3-Our Axeman PWNED a warrior
4- cyrus wanted open borders i accepted
5- Novograd built started on scout to replace yuri and Willy connected NovoGrad with St.petersburg
6- Some dude says we aint weathy on most weathy civs (we are like almost at the bottom)
7-Novograd expans
8- Libary is built in moscow starts on settler. Willy starts on Pig Pen
9- Mathmatics compleate and Started on Agriculture
here are some pics
Mathmatics
Novograd
St.Petersburg
Moscow
Oh yah whos idea was it to skip Agriculture because we have two reasources of corn and we need them for the heath bounus. but Novograd is also near some marble which could make some good wonders
on to ??? whos ever next
View attachment 125339
McLMan
Afraid of the monkeys
Nice going Xtream Rockstar.
Just took a quick look at the save. We have 3 cities. 3 military units, and no others on the way. From this point on I think we should be building a military unit somewhere at all times. Happiness is a big issue for us right now too. I would probably beeline for Hereditary Rule, and build Axemen as hard as I could to go and whack Xeres.
armstrong - up
McLMan - on deck
Paulsy
Thrar
Woobi - skipped
Xtreme Rockstar - just played
Just took a quick look at the save. We have 3 cities. 3 military units, and no others on the way. From this point on I think we should be building a military unit somewhere at all times. Happiness is a big issue for us right now too. I would probably beeline for Hereditary Rule, and build Axemen as hard as I could to go and whack Xeres.
armstrong - up
McLMan - on deck
Paulsy
Thrar
Woobi - skipped
Xtreme Rockstar - just played
armstrong
Prince
Okay, I have it. I'll play/post either early tomorrow or tomorrow night.
armstrong
Prince
Phew, it's been a long night tonight (some old friends came into town.) I'll play later tomorrow (today, now, I guess), but before I do, I noticed that I'll be most likely settling two cities during my turn. I'd like to get a consensus before I play as to where to place them. I'm thinking rushing down to the fish site near the jungle (assuming Cyrus hasn't gotten there yet) and Thrar's spot near the incense/river to the near west... but I'd like to get at least a couple of assents/dissents before I play. The corn site to our north should have enough food to help whip out some troops, so it's viable too I think.
After that, it's axemen, axemen, axemen, and research Construction so we can whip out a good 6 catapults 15-20 turns from now. That should put us into position to hit Cyrus (or Qin, who's cultural border we can see now from our cities, but he's Huayna's friend) well before he'll have longbowmen.
Also, I'm thinking about a library in St Pete's so we can run some scientists for academies for our cities - Moscow would be better for it since it already has a library, but we'll need our capital's production for soldiers I think.
But, yeah, let me know what you all think first
The corn site to our north should have enough food to help whip out some troops, so it's viable too I think.After that, it's axemen, axemen, axemen, and research Construction so we can whip out a good 6 catapults 15-20 turns from now. That should put us into position to hit Cyrus (or Qin, who's cultural border we can see now from our cities, but he's Huayna's friend) well before he'll have longbowmen.
Also, I'm thinking about a library in St Pete's so we can run some scientists for academies for our cities - Moscow would be better for it since it already has a library, but we'll need our capital's production for soldiers I think.
But, yeah, let me know what you all think first
Settling near the fish looks promising but there is only one hill nearby so it wont be producing anything quicky! Also there will be 6 jungle tiles around so we'll need iron working to get rid of them.
St Pete's looks the best place for scientists with the tons of food it has. A worker to the W is currently chopping so switching to a library after the lighthouse will get the benefit of the chop then we might be able to whip the rest.
One idea that might be worth a mention is settling SE of the sheep (NE of the north most incense), it will have access to some useful tiles by the river whilst only sharing 2 tiles with moscow. It would prevent a city being founded to the W of moscow that uses the sheep and corn tho.
St Pete's looks the best place for scientists with the tons of food it has. A worker to the W is currently chopping so switching to a library after the lighthouse will get the benefit of the chop then we might be able to whip the rest.
One idea that might be worth a mention is settling SE of the sheep (NE of the north most incense), it will have access to some useful tiles by the river whilst only sharing 2 tiles with moscow. It would prevent a city being founded to the W of moscow that uses the sheep and corn tho.
armstrong
Prince
Hmm, after looking at the save, I see two general splits of cities:
The first (set "A") uses Paulsy's city SE of the sheep, and then has a further city north that gets the corn. The location of A2 is marked with a question mark, as it's unknown if there are any seafood resources up there (doh!)]
The second set uses Thrar's dotmap. It grabs a little bit more space down south, at the cost of making the B1 city lack any true food resource (it does, however, floodplain we can farm, so it can grow at +4 food.)
Now, both sets of cities have certain advantages. City "A" gets not only the sheep, but 3 grassland hills. Not great later on, but it will be able to spit out a catapult every 4 turns (err, 6 on Epic.) Later on, it will be more of a commercial city. City A2 - assuming there's no seafood up there - is just a little fishing village/cottage town. It will eventually help the economy once it grows to size 3 or 4, but other than that it's nothing special. With the (unirrigated until Civil Service) corn, it will grow at +5 which is good enough to whip.
The "B" set moves the sheep to the northern city. The Southern city has significantly more non-wasted/overlapped tiles (4, I believe), but a little less production and no food resource outside of the floodplain. In return, with the addition of the sheep, the northern "B" city is a whipping powerhouse.
Right now, I'm leaning to the "B" set.
Also, I don't think the fish city is worth settling right now. So, right now I'm wondering if I build two cities this turn, or just one (and save St. Pete's whip for a library, barracks, or axemen.) What do y'all think?
The first (set "A") uses Paulsy's city SE of the sheep, and then has a further city north that gets the corn. The location of A2 is marked with a question mark, as it's unknown if there are any seafood resources up there (doh!)]
The second set uses Thrar's dotmap. It grabs a little bit more space down south, at the cost of making the B1 city lack any true food resource (it does, however, floodplain we can farm, so it can grow at +4 food.)
Now, both sets of cities have certain advantages. City "A" gets not only the sheep, but 3 grassland hills. Not great later on, but it will be able to spit out a catapult every 4 turns (err, 6 on Epic.) Later on, it will be more of a commercial city. City A2 - assuming there's no seafood up there - is just a little fishing village/cottage town. It will eventually help the economy once it grows to size 3 or 4, but other than that it's nothing special. With the (unirrigated until Civil Service) corn, it will grow at +5 which is good enough to whip.
The "B" set moves the sheep to the northern city. The Southern city has significantly more non-wasted/overlapped tiles (4, I believe), but a little less production and no food resource outside of the floodplain. In return, with the addition of the sheep, the northern "B" city is a whipping powerhouse.
Right now, I'm leaning to the "B" set.
Also, I don't think the fish city is worth settling right now. So, right now I'm wondering if I build two cities this turn, or just one (and save St. Pete's whip for a library, barracks, or axemen.) What do y'all think?
McLMan
Afraid of the monkeys
As far as city sites go, I like the B set. I also agree with holding off on fishing village. I would probably put a rax in St. Petes before going to axemen. Combat I axemen can do a lot of damage in the early game.
armstrong
Prince
EDIT: Whoops, just noticed that was the wrong save, redownload if you got it before this morning.
Okay, here we go. I'll post pictures tomorrow, as it's a bit too late tonight. The plan is to get the food resources in Novgorod working and grow to
be in position to whip, settle our fourth city (Rostov?), build a library for scientists in St. Petersburg, and then focus on military.
I made a couple of, um,
moves as they say here, but all in all things went okay.
Preturn
I had initially planned to whip Moscow as soon as it was able to be, but given that it's working 5 strong tiles now, it's best not to lower the happiness I think - we'd have to stop working the plains hamlet, which is itself accounting for nearly 1/6 of our research.
So, it looks like I won't be settling _any_ towns on my turn, as the settler won't be finished without chops before 9 turns, and those workers have other priorities!
I do turn Moscow's avoid growth off - I'll stagnate it manually when it needs to be.
At St. Pete's, Xtream Jr. is building a road that's unnecessary. I stop him. He'll go help get Novgorod on its feet. St. Pete's is going to grow into 2 unhappiness at the same time it finishes it's lighthouse in two turns - that's the perfect storm for whipping.
Papa Serf is building a cottage at St Pete's that we probably won't use for a while, but I keep him working because it will bring a forest chop with it in 3 turns.
I MM St. Pete's to work a plains river tile instead of a plains forest - the lighthouse will come in the same turn and we gain a commerce.
Novgorod is building a scout - not sure if that's a good idea - we'll want some fast unit to scout Cyrus's lands, but I'm afraid he might run into a barbarian archer on the way down (unless Cyrus is getting close.) A chariot would probably be better, but since he has 10 hammers done already I leave him as is.
I keep research on Agriculture - it will come in just in time to farm Novgorod's corn.
I also notice we have trade routes with Huayna, but we have nothing to trade at the moment.
We could give him a clam for better relations, but I don't think we need to worry about diplomacy too much right now... maybe he'll demand it from us so we can get a +1 "You gave us tribute."
Press Enter.
Turn 1 - 850 BC
MM St. Pete's to work a coast tile, it still grows + finishes lighthouse next turn.
Novgorod grows to size 2.
Well, look who's here! Qin has a city near Novgorod.
I name the axeman "Santiago" (I always call my first Axeman that, for some reason )
Xtream Jr. heads to Novgorod to help out with the pigs and eventually corn.
Papa Serf continues working on the grassland cottage - he'll finish, and clear the forest, with perfect timing to whip St. Pete's next turn. The hammers from the chop will go directly into the next production, which means we won't have to wait a turn before whipping.
Turn 2 - 835 BC
St. Pete's finishes Lighthouse -> Library. After Papa Serf's cottage chop, the library is at the cost of half of the people in the city (they were a bunch of ingrates, anyway.)
Turn 3 - 820 BC
St. Pete's finishes Library -> Barracks. Papa Serf goes to chop a forest to help this along - we want to make sure it's up when it's time to whip in 14 turns. In retrospect, it would have been much better to have chopped the settler at Moscow. St. Pete's also hires two scientists - it will grow unhappy in 9 turns, which we should probably avoid as it would force us to switch from the 5F3C clams to the 6F pigs.
Willy & Xtream, Jr. finish the pig pen.
Turn 4 - 805 BC
Research: Agriculture -> Masonry, to hook up our marble and as a prereq for Construction.
Willy & Xtream, Jr. move to hook up the corn.
Turn 5 - 790 BC
Nothing interesting - all the workers are working, no units to move around...
Turn 6 - 775 BC
Novgorod finishes Scout -> Barracks.
Scout is named "Yuri, Jr." and heads southwards to Qin's site.
Turn 7 - 760 BC
Willy and Xtream finish their farm at Novgorod, and Papa Serf finishes his chop. Yuri moves closer to Qin's city.
Turn 8 - 745 BC
Research: Masonry -> Construction
St. Pete's Barracks -> Axeman
Willy & Xtream move to chop a barracks - with both of its food sources in place, we'll be ready to whip Novgorod soon, so I want that barracks in place. The marble can wait, I think, since it can work the mysterious cottage outside of town
Papa Serf, meanwhile, moves to build a road on the grass hill 1s of our next city site. This is my big move... for some reason I was thinking our next site was the Southern one in B, not the northern one with the two food resources!
Yuri discovers the nearest Cyrus city - it's a junglish city just south of Qin's city, and has silk and horses.
Turn 9 - 730 BC
Moscow Settler -> Axeman. I stagnate Moscow. It's currently working a plains forest, but I'd really like to have it work another plains river cottage, however, we just don't have the worker turns to spare right now - I think we should make it a high priority to have Papa Serf chop a quick worker out at our fourth city. Moscow can, instead of the 1F2P forest, work a 1F3C coastal tile as well.
I send the settler stupidly to the wrong site!
Somewhere, we ran out of gold... our research is still keeping up at 90% though.
Yuri, Jr. walks into Cyrus's land. There's a barbarian warrior nearby he's trying to avoid.
Turn 10 - 715 BC
Wow, 10 turns go fast on Epic!
Yuri, Jr. sets up next to Cyrus's city, and sees a settler inside. He's also ended up, unfortunately, next to the Barbarian warrior - he's in a forest, so he's got a fighting chance... maybe...
Some notes:
1. The settler is in position to settle a fourth city next turn, but... realistically, I think it would be better to move it again... I sent it, kind of without thinking
to the southern site, but the Sheep-Corn site would be MUCH better in retrospect. Whoops - and after all the discussion on it!
2. At Novgorod, our workers will finish their chops in three turns, which will let us whip an axeman (and overflow for almost a full second one)... make sure that the whip will cost at least two population, and don't whip it if there aren't any hammers on the axeman already, or it will be quite wasteful. It has enough production to finish an axeman if need be. Note that Novgorod does NOT have a granary yet. I hate whipping it without one, but with the amount of food it produces (and our low happiness cap) it's not a huge deal.
3. I'm sorry about the imminent demise of Yuri, Jr... in retrospect, it probably would have been better to have just cancelled the scout and started on a granary.
4. St. Pete's can be whipped in 13 turns I believe - just keep checking to see when they forget about our cruelness. Also, it will produce a great scientist in 18 turns (though probably a little few more, as we'll want to work the pigs to recover from whippings.) Does anyone know what technologies he will discover? I think, if we get Meditation, he will discover Taoism. That might actually be pretty useful for us - there's a shot that NO religion will spread on to this continent, so having a monopoly would be nice, and a happiness at St. Pete's and Moscow would be really nice, as they both have oodles of excess food. Finally, St. Pete is growing unhappy in two turns - we might want to turn stagnate growth on (as there's no way to move the tiles around to make it not grow.) Just remember to turn it off whenever we whip it!
5. Moscow is currently working a 1F2P tile - we should get a worker up there (Papa Serf?) asap to hook up another plains cottage, unless he's more useful chopping at Rostov.
6. I had hoped to build up our miserable military more, but I was more focused on getting some basic infrastructure in place (Library, Barracks) and the settler. It should explode in the next two turnsets, however, now that Moscow is in full military mode and we can start whipping axemen in Pete's and Novgorod. We should be ready to declare war not long after catapults come in.
7. After Construction, we need to do something about happiness. Cyrus's near town has Silks, so Calendar might be eventually, good, though getting Monarchy sooner rather than later would be beneficial. Alphabet would be really nice, especially if we can time Literature so that we can get the Great Library built up soon... argh, too many techs!
8. Demographically, we're tied for #1 in GNP (and that's not even counting that we have libraries in our two good science cities, and we're running two scientist specialists.) We're 6th in production now, but we're not that far off, and Novgorod is in full food mode atm. We're almost #1 in food, and we're not even working Moscow's clams or St. Pete's pigs! That's the main reason I'm not too worried about the production - whipping Novgorod and St. Pete's every 15 turns will bring in 180 hammers/15 turns, which easily puts us in first in hammers
One thing I noticed about SG's is that in writing reports up how many things you notice that you could have done differently... I definitely wasted a few turns here and there. Oh well, live and learn!
Okay, that's about it... oh, here's the save!
Okay, here we go. I'll post pictures tomorrow, as it's a bit too late tonight. The plan is to get the food resources in Novgorod working and grow to
be in position to whip, settle our fourth city (Rostov?), build a library for scientists in St. Petersburg, and then focus on military.
I made a couple of, um,
moves as they say here, but all in all things went okay.Preturn
I had initially planned to whip Moscow as soon as it was able to be, but given that it's working 5 strong tiles now, it's best not to lower the happiness I think - we'd have to stop working the plains hamlet, which is itself accounting for nearly 1/6 of our research.
So, it looks like I won't be settling _any_ towns on my turn, as the settler won't be finished without chops before 9 turns, and those workers have other priorities!
I do turn Moscow's avoid growth off - I'll stagnate it manually when it needs to be.
At St. Pete's, Xtream Jr. is building a road that's unnecessary. I stop him. He'll go help get Novgorod on its feet. St. Pete's is going to grow into 2 unhappiness at the same time it finishes it's lighthouse in two turns - that's the perfect storm for whipping.
Papa Serf is building a cottage at St Pete's that we probably won't use for a while, but I keep him working because it will bring a forest chop with it in 3 turns.
I MM St. Pete's to work a plains river tile instead of a plains forest - the lighthouse will come in the same turn and we gain a commerce.
Novgorod is building a scout - not sure if that's a good idea - we'll want some fast unit to scout Cyrus's lands, but I'm afraid he might run into a barbarian archer on the way down (unless Cyrus is getting close.) A chariot would probably be better, but since he has 10 hammers done already I leave him as is.
I keep research on Agriculture - it will come in just in time to farm Novgorod's corn.
I also notice we have trade routes with Huayna, but we have nothing to trade at the moment.
We could give him a clam for better relations, but I don't think we need to worry about diplomacy too much right now... maybe he'll demand it from us so we can get a +1 "You gave us tribute."
Press Enter.
Turn 1 - 850 BC
MM St. Pete's to work a coast tile, it still grows + finishes lighthouse next turn.
Novgorod grows to size 2.
Well, look who's here! Qin has a city near Novgorod.
I name the axeman "Santiago" (I always call my first Axeman that, for some reason
)Xtream Jr. heads to Novgorod to help out with the pigs and eventually corn.
Papa Serf continues working on the grassland cottage - he'll finish, and clear the forest, with perfect timing to whip St. Pete's next turn. The hammers from the chop will go directly into the next production, which means we won't have to wait a turn before whipping.
Turn 2 - 835 BC
St. Pete's finishes Lighthouse -> Library. After Papa Serf's cottage chop, the library is
at the cost of half of the people in the city (they were a bunch of ingrates, anyway.)Turn 3 - 820 BC
St. Pete's finishes Library -> Barracks. Papa Serf goes to chop a forest to help this along - we want to make sure it's up when it's time to whip in 14 turns. In retrospect, it would have been much better to have chopped the settler at Moscow. St. Pete's also hires two scientists - it will grow unhappy in 9 turns, which we should probably avoid as it would force us to switch from the 5F3C clams to the 6F pigs.
Willy & Xtream, Jr. finish the pig pen.
Turn 4 - 805 BC
Research: Agriculture -> Masonry, to hook up our marble and as a prereq for Construction.
Willy & Xtream, Jr. move to hook up the corn.
Turn 5 - 790 BC
Nothing interesting - all the workers are working, no units to move around...
Turn 6 - 775 BC
Novgorod finishes Scout -> Barracks.
Scout is named "Yuri, Jr." and heads southwards to Qin's site.
Turn 7 - 760 BC
Willy and Xtream finish their farm at Novgorod, and Papa Serf finishes his chop. Yuri moves closer to Qin's city.
Turn 8 - 745 BC
Research: Masonry -> Construction
St. Pete's Barracks -> Axeman
Willy & Xtream move to chop a barracks - with both of its food sources in place, we'll be ready to whip Novgorod soon, so I want that barracks in place. The marble can wait, I think, since it can work the mysterious cottage outside of town
Papa Serf, meanwhile, moves to build a road on the grass hill 1s of our next city site. This is my big
move... for some reason I was thinking our next site was the Southern one in B, not the northern one with the two food resources! Yuri discovers the nearest Cyrus city - it's a junglish city just south of Qin's city, and has silk and horses.
Turn 9 - 730 BC
Moscow Settler -> Axeman. I stagnate Moscow. It's currently working a plains forest, but I'd really like to have it work another plains river cottage, however, we just don't have the worker turns to spare right now - I think we should make it a high priority to have Papa Serf chop a quick worker out at our fourth city. Moscow can, instead of the 1F2P forest, work a 1F3C coastal tile as well.
I send the settler stupidly to the wrong site!
Somewhere, we ran out of gold... our research is still keeping up at 90% though.
Yuri, Jr. walks into Cyrus's land. There's a barbarian warrior nearby he's trying to avoid.
Turn 10 - 715 BC
Wow, 10 turns go fast on Epic!
Yuri, Jr. sets up next to Cyrus's city, and sees a settler inside. He's also ended up, unfortunately, next to the Barbarian warrior - he's in a forest, so he's got a fighting chance... maybe...
Some notes:
1. The settler is in position to settle a fourth city next turn, but... realistically, I think it would be better to move it again... I sent it, kind of without thinking
to the southern site, but the Sheep-Corn site would be MUCH better in retrospect. Whoops - and after all the discussion on it! 2. At Novgorod, our workers will finish their chops in three turns, which will let us whip an axeman (and overflow for almost a full second one)... make sure that the whip will cost at least two population, and don't whip it if there aren't any hammers on the axeman already, or it will be quite wasteful. It has enough production to finish an axeman if need be. Note that Novgorod does NOT have a granary yet. I hate whipping it without one, but with the amount of food it produces (and our low happiness cap) it's not a huge deal.
3. I'm sorry about the imminent demise of Yuri, Jr... in retrospect, it probably would have been better to have just cancelled the scout and started on a granary.
4. St. Pete's can be whipped in 13 turns I believe - just keep checking to see when they forget about our cruelness. Also, it will produce a great scientist in 18 turns (though probably a little few more, as we'll want to work the pigs to recover from whippings.) Does anyone know what technologies he will discover? I think, if we get Meditation, he will discover Taoism. That might actually be pretty useful for us - there's a shot that NO religion will spread on to this continent, so having a monopoly would be nice, and a happiness at St. Pete's and Moscow would be really nice, as they both have oodles of excess food. Finally, St. Pete is growing unhappy in two turns - we might want to turn stagnate growth on (as there's no way to move the tiles around to make it not grow.) Just remember to turn it off whenever we whip it!
5. Moscow is currently working a 1F2P tile - we should get a worker up there (Papa Serf?) asap to hook up another plains cottage, unless he's more useful chopping at Rostov.
6. I had hoped to build up our miserable military more, but I was more focused on getting some basic infrastructure in place (Library, Barracks) and the settler. It should explode in the next two turnsets, however, now that Moscow is in full military mode and we can start whipping axemen in Pete's and Novgorod. We should be ready to declare war not long after catapults come in.
7. After Construction, we need to do something about happiness. Cyrus's near town has Silks, so Calendar might be eventually, good, though getting Monarchy sooner rather than later would be beneficial. Alphabet would be really nice, especially if we can time Literature so that we can get the Great Library built up soon... argh, too many techs!
8. Demographically, we're tied for #1 in GNP (and that's not even counting that we have libraries in our two good science cities, and we're running two scientist specialists.) We're 6th in production now, but we're not that far off, and Novgorod is in full food mode atm. We're almost #1 in food, and we're not even working Moscow's clams or St. Pete's pigs! That's the main reason I'm not too worried about the production - whipping Novgorod and St. Pete's every 15 turns will bring in 180 hammers/15 turns, which easily puts us in first in hammers
One thing I noticed about SG's is that in writing reports up how many things you notice that you could have done differently... I definitely wasted a few turns here and there. Oh well, live and learn!
Okay, that's about it... oh, here's the save!
Nice turns!
I didn't check the save for your moves, but the whipping and scientists sounds good. Note that we don't need a library everywhere, Moscow and St. Pete should be enough for a while.
So next we found the northern B, and after that, if still available, the southern fish site? Or should we forget about that one and take it by force?
How is science, is it worth building an academy somewhere with that GS we'll get in a while?
If we could get CoL and Confucianism isn't founded yet, that would be nice. Or hold on to the GS for a while to wait for an expensive tech to be available for him, maybe civil service? Usually I'd build an academy, but if we have two so-so science cities instead of one really good one, probably that's not so useful now. And you're right, if we could get a religion monopoly on the continent, that'd be huge for income, relations, and intelligence.
In order of preference, I'd go for CoL, Theology, Philosophy. Gotta take a closer look at our tech tree position.
I didn't check the save for your
moves, but the whipping and scientists sounds good. Note that we don't need a library everywhere, Moscow and St. Pete should be enough for a while.So next we found the northern B, and after that, if still available, the southern fish site? Or should we forget about that one and take it by force?
How is science, is it worth building an academy somewhere with that GS we'll get in a while?
If we could get CoL and Confucianism isn't founded yet, that would be nice. Or hold on to the GS for a while to wait for an expensive tech to be available for him, maybe civil service? Usually I'd build an academy, but if we have two so-so science cities instead of one really good one, probably that's not so useful now. And you're right, if we could get a religion monopoly on the continent, that'd be huge for income, relations, and intelligence.
In order of preference, I'd go for CoL, Theology, Philosophy. Gotta take a closer look at our tech tree position.
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