McCIV-01 Prince McShuffle

Nice going armstrong, although i'm not liking the bad news outweighing the good news! I think we are best going bronze working next, we could do with finding out where the copper is and if we're lucky those grassland hills might suddenly become a good home for our production city.

Really glad we've got horses in moscow, im already looking forward to cossacks charging into enemy lands!
 
Great turns Amrstrong, I enjoyed your log...

And you're right, Vlad's Desert looks icky...
 
armstrong said:
Note: I can't figure out how to inline images, or rather, how to get Civfanatics to host images that I can inline... how'd ya do it in your first post, McLMan?

I've seen this question asked before.

Probably the easiest way to do it is to use photobucket.com It's free, and easier to use than the file upload at the bottom of the page. One big advantage is you can upload more than one picture at a time. You can also create albums for your different games, as well as sub-albums that I call turnset1, turnset2, etc. to make things easier for me to find.

First you'll need to get a free account at photobucket (link above).
Once you're all set it's pretty straight forward about how to set up albums if you want to.

The upload menu is near the top of the page. You can upload multiple files by using the drop down tab.

Upload.jpg


Then just browsing to each file you want to upload and selecting it.

upload2.jpg


After you've selected all of your pictures, click submit. And you'll see all of the images you've uploaded at the bottom of the page. If you click edit you can then re-size the pictures to fit in a standard width browser pane. I use a stand-alone program to re-size to 820 px wide before uploading. 820 is the widest I can make fit in the forums.

The best way to go from here is to have 2 windows open, one being the photobucket window, and the other civ fanatics reply. When you want to insert a picture in your post, switch to the photobucket page, left click the path next to the Img tag under the picture you want, then right click and select copy.

imgtag.jpg


Then switch back to your post, right click in the spot you want the picture ...

paste.jpg


...click paste and the picture is linked in the right format to show up in-line.

You can do it in a more tedious fashion using the file upload button at the bottom of every civ fanatics page, then clicking the "insert image" tab in the reply to post window and doing it similar to the way you posted the save. I think the fine folks who bring us Civ Fanatics would prefer we use a service such as photobucket or imageshack because it saves space on the server.
 
Nice job armstrong. I usually have trouble keeping scouts alive. Let's hope it changes here. Tough luck about the big desert. But it just wouldn't be a start I rolled without one. :(

Pre-turn
I like bronze working. We've had no luck so far with close luxury resources, pretty good luck with food bonuses. Let's hope we're lucky with strategic ones. Hit Enter.

1) 3100 BC
Papa Serf begins building a corral for our horses.
Vlad continues West, and finds coast to the West of Beijing.
Yuri follows the river to the SW & finds gems in the jungle. These are also far away from home.

2) 3070 BC
Yuri runs from a bear.
Vlad continues S down what appears to be the W coast of our continent.

4) 3010 BC
Our first warrior is complete. Begin building a work boat.
Move warrior west to check the sea N of the big desert.
Yuri heads SW toward larger portion of undiscovered land and finds spices.
Vlad finds rice along the W coast.

6) 2950 BC
Yuri spots a Panther

7) 2920 BC
Yuri runs from the panther, finds horses, then ends up right next to a lion.
YuriLion.jpg

The corral for the horses is done, but we need to figure out some way to get them home. Papa Serf ponders this for a moment, then shrugs and heads for the hills. :confused:
Go into city and switch pop from plains forest to horses. 6 hammers per turn now.

8) 2890 BC
The lion must have just finished eating because he showed no interest in Yuri. He escapes to the SE and sees a strange glow.
blueborders.jpg

Cyrus.jpg

Vlad finds the Incan lands.

9) 2860 BC
Moscow's borders expand.
Papa Serf begins mining the hill.
Yuri dances away from a lion.

10) 2830 BC
The warrior has made his way to the hill. He climbs to the top and finds that the sea to the N is as dead as the land to the S.
 
11) 2800 BC
Our glorious warrior kills a lion.
Warriorbattle.jpg


12) 2770 BC
The warrior is promoted to Combat I

13) 2740 BC
The work boat is finished. 4 turns to size 3. Decide to build another warrior (due in 4) and then switching to a Settler right when the size changes. Bronze working will in shortly after, then Papa Serf can help out with a chop or 2.
4turns.jpg

The warrior heads back to Moscow.
Yuri finds that he can't go around Persepolis to it's SE.

14) 2710 BC
The work boat begins tonging clams.

15) 2680 BC
Papa Serf finishes the mine. We're still 5 turns from being able to chop, with no other improvements available within the fat cross. In anticipation of the next city (see dotmap below) I move him SW to mine a hill for the proposed location of the next city.
Vlad finds the SW corner of our continent with more horses and sheep.

17) 2620 BC
The 2nd warrior is done, Moscow grows to size 3, Settler due in 14.
Yuri finds a hut!!!
Yurihut.jpg


18) 2590 BC
The villagers give Yuri a map showing mostly land he already knows of. :mad:

20) 2530 BC
Bronze working is in. Pick the wheel as the next tech.
Hot Dog look where the copper is!!!!!!! :woohoo:
coppermined.jpg

It's already mined!!!!!!!

Post Turn
Looks like we're on a continent with Mao, Huyana, and Cyrus. It seems we'll have to fight to give our people luxuries. The Wheel is selected (no beakers) and can be changed without any loss but it's really the only logical choice in order to get the copper and horses hooked up. I've put a dot on the spot I would put the next city.
2530dotmap.jpg

It can take advantage of the mine that Papa Serf is working on now (complete in 2) as well as 2 food bonuses. I figure Papa Serf can chop a forest after he finishes the mine to help out with the Settler build.
Warrior #1 is back in Moscow, and #2 is heading down the coast to clear the way for the Settler.

A map of the resources.
2530resources.jpg


And one of our neighborhood.
2530culture.jpg


*****The Save*****

armstrong
McLMan - just played
Paulsy - up
Thrar - on deck
Woobi
Xtreme Rockstar
 
Nice turns, and thanks for the image tutorial! Some cursory comments:

That copper is nice - it helps our production problems a bit... Moscow should have some decent early game production.

I agree with the placement of your dot as a commerce city. I'm not sure if it's the best second city site, though (I'll need to take a look at the save game)... making a sheep/hills production town by the incense might be better as the clam/pig site will not take too long to get going since it can fish while we wait to build river cottages for it. But I'd like to see other folks dotmaps first, too :) One nice thing about that site is, late game, it will have some surprisingly good production - all those 2 hammer towns will be nice. And with 10-11 cottages and coastal, it's commerce will be good.

One other thing - I see that there's a lot of desert in the south, too - and given how many plains we've seen, it looks like we might have drawn an Arid map. That's not so bad - it will slow the other civs down as much as it slows us (hopefully.) I think it will be important to try to grab some of the good land in the middle. I just wish we had a floodplained river in our desert like Cyrus has... :thumbdown
 
So far, I think we could put up another city NW of Moscow, that dotted one, and one at the incense.
Nobody will take away the NW spot any time soon, and the dot is pretty secure, too. I'd suggest taking the incense first, if there's a good city location. I'll make a dotmap, too, later.
In fact I could imagine settling the incense first, and then another city SW of it, before filling the gaps (dot and NW), to claim more land.
 
Got it.

Thrar has a good point with his suggesting on city locations. I'm currently thinking go for wheel, link up copper and horses for some decent units as barbarians wont be to far away and then head towards pottery.

I'll have a look later today and play tonight (UK time). In anyone has any other ideas on city placements then please speak.
 
Here's my dotmap attempt.

DotmapMcCIV-01.jpg


Barred tiles are overlap, the ones with circles are unused. I just noticed, I forgot to bar 3 river tiles west of Moscow.
The numbers 1-3 mark city spots (in suggested founding order), X another city, and that big ugly orange dot down south another potential candidate, although I think we might be late for that one if we found 1-3 first, and I don't know how the maintenance would be down there.

As you can see, I moved the original dot 2 tiles further south. This is to make room for a decent #3 location on the river, and to claim a little more land in the south. #2 consolidates that gain, and both #1 and #2 are high food cities, so they'll grow fast and help us expand early. #1 looks like a good great people factory, #2 can get some production going later, or cottages maybe.

#3 is one I'm not so happy with...I thought about putting it on the flood plain to access the sheep, but then decided that a floodplain (4/0/1 with farm) is almost as good as that sheep tile (4/1/1), which doesn't cost much at #3, and gives us a stronger northern city with access to both corn and sheep.

The northern city (X) gets two food resources and has a lot of grasslands, another good growth city. With the water tiles we can get some nice science going here.

I don't think it's worth expanding westwards early (west of #3), there's nothing interesting. If it turns out that later there's lots of unsettled space, of course we should happily take it.
The big ugly dot down south is a difficult thing...strategically, it's of good value against Persia, but by itself, all it has is a fish and some average tiles. I'd settle this not earlier than after #2, or later. Maybe not at all, and Cyrus might beat us to that anyway.
 
Yeah, this is a tough dot map. Initially, I had most things shifted a couple about two north of Thrar's positions - this let us split up the NW corn and desert sheep to make his #3 city better... the problem was it didn't work well with the other cities (in particular the fish city on the southern coast.)

So, I looked for a stronger #3 city, while still working with the later fish and marble sites. Here's what I came up with:

dotmap2.jpg


Basically, I kept the northern cities north, and the southern ones southish, and squeezed an extra city on to the coast between the fish and the clams.

"Filler?" and "commerce" overlap quite a bit, in particularly the pig, but commerce will still have the clam - they can swap the pigs back and forth as they need to grow (with Filler? eventually ending up with it.) Being coastal means they'll pay for their own upkeep, so it's not too wasteful...

I don't know if Production is a stronger site than Thrar's #3. It gets a whopping 6 deserts, 2 peaks, and 2 desert incense (ouch!) for worthless tiles, but it's a decent early game production city - it will have 15 hammers at size 6 I believe, and grabs a couple of tiles towards the desert that we probably would never even think about settling otherwise. With sheep and floodplains, it will grow quickly. Long term, it's probably worse than Thrar's #3, but it will be a fine military city early in the short term.

My marble city is 1n of Thrar's, and Thrar's spot is slightly better (I think it gets a grass plain for a hills plain), but this is the "natural" spot for it in the dotmap... 1s might be better, though.

I think we'll have a shot at Fish City (Thrar's red dot) since it's on our side of the jungle...

I'm not married to this dotmap or anything, just wanted to see what alternatives were out there. ;)
 
Pre Turn:

Research The Wheel, link up horses and copper, get the settler out and build some decent military units.


1) 2500BC

Not quite the start I was expecting as our warrior S of Moscow is attacked, but defeats some wolves.

2) 2470BC

Move worker N to chop out the settler whilst we wait for the wheel.

3) 2440BC

Yuri moving south avoids a lion. Move our now healed warrior S towards the location of our second city will be.

4) 2410BC

More exploring

5) 2380BC

…

6) 2350BC

Vladimir explores around Curzo.

7) 2320BC

Move our promoted warrior slightly W of Moscow for some fog busting.

8) 2290BC

We’ve researched the wheel so start on pottery. Worker finishes chopping forest and our settler is completed! Decide to put the excess wood towards another worker rather than another warrior as we can have axemen in a few turns. Worker starts building a road for our copper.

9) 2260BC

Settler is moving S for city #1 on Thrar’s dotmap

our warrior on my first turn...
 

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10) 2230BC

Yuri is now moving SW of Percepolis and looking for the southern coast of our continent.

11) 2200BC

Settler reaches his destination and we’re ready for St Petersburg.

12) 2170BC

Our warrior kills a lion that was about to start sniffing around our settler. St Petersburg is founded and starts building a worker. Worker near Moscow begins the final piece of road to bring copper to our capital.

13) 2140BC

Our warrior near St Peterburg is moved W into forest to start healing.

14) 2110BC

Yuri walks across tundra and ice, we’ve found the southern coast of continent.

15) 2080BC

Copper is now available in Moscow decide to wait one turn for our worker to complete before starting on some axemen.

16) 2050BC

Worker finished so start on axeman. The new worker moves N to hook up the horses our other worker moves S to build a road to St Petersburg. Tired of typing St Petersburg, I’ll now call it SP!

Vladimir runs away from lions.

17) 2020BC

More exploring.

18) 1990BC

Pottery is completed. As we have no need to agriculture at the mo I start researching

Yuri spots a lion, time to move in the opposite direction

19) 1960BC

Workers still working, scouts still scouting.

20) 1930BC

Pretty quiet but this is our empire…. and the resources on the rest of our continent.
 

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Post turn

There seems to be very little copper on our continent, worth keeping an eye on as we may find a target or two for an early war (depending on iron appearing). We could do with a few axemen to ward of barbs and more settlers (obviously).

Feel free to move away from researching writing we're only a couple of turns in but we'll need it in the near future.

Time for me to read throught McLMan's tutorial and sort out those pictures!


SAVED GAME..
 
Nice job Paulsy. :goodjob:

I'm not sure I'd have gone with Writing. Most likely would have gone for Sailing to help get our coastal $$ coming in, as well as connecting the cities. I usually kick myself for researching Writing too late though. I really like librarys.

A couple of observations from looking at the save. We're going to run into happiness issues really soon. The happiness limit in Moscow is 5, and it's at size 4 now, will be at 5 in 4 turns. There are only 4 happiness resources on our continent. Spices, Silks, Gems, and Incense. We have incense close, but it needs calander. The next closest is the gems, but it's awfully far away and will likely fall into Persian hands, unless we run for it with our 4th settler. We can't hope for religion yet, as nobody on our continent has founded one. Maybe Huyana will get Judaism. Or better yet, Xeres.

Also, one thing I noticed while looking at hooking up the Gems. All the rivers on our continent (except the short one in the South) empty into lakes. Just that one 2 tile river runs to the coast. I haven't seen that before.
 
i think if we go for religon either Chritianity, islam, or taiosim or all 3 so that way we can focus on other techs Taiosim might be the best due to philosohpy and first to descover philosophy gains a free tech :)
 
Good work. :) Some comments:

1. If have Moscow work the copper mine instead of the horses, we'll produce the axeman in 4 turns at the same time we grow instead of 5 (with a loss of 4 commerce.) After that, another settler definitely seems to be in order - I think Thrar's marble site is the best candidate, as we don't want to sit on that too long and let Qin get it - he's probably already got a city by all the silks and corn.

2. The worker (Papa Serf) building a road to St. Petersburg would probably be best used to hook up the pigs there so it can produce its worker more quickly and then get to growing - we can connect it with Sailing, and eventually build a road for transportation as our workers find less things to do. That's assuming we get Sailing sooner rather than later.

As for technology, Writing's always a good choice, but I also like Sailing to connect our cities. Also, it will let us build a Lighthouse in Moscow (and possibly go on to the Great Lighthouse) and whip one in Pete's for access to those delicious 2F3C coastal tiles. And... it looks like Beijing is coastal. With Sailing + Writing, we can get Open Borders with Qin for extra commerce.

I'm torn on the Great Lighthouse. For it's cost, it's my favorite early wonder, and it's almost always a definite build for me when I start with a coastal capital... but from our position now, I'm leaning towards focusing more on expansion or building a library and running scientists for an early academy, and saving our forests for the Great Library when we have marble. With Qin having a coastal city, it's not even a gimme that we could get it.

As for happiness, founding a religion is still a ways off for us, and the net benefits aren't that great (we get +1 happiness if we run the state religion, and +1 if we build a temple.) I think we're best off going down the religious route, but with an aim to grabbing Monarchy for Hereditary Rule. That will give us as much happiness as we need (for the cost of building/maintaining the units) and it's also Huayna's favorite civic. He's our natural friend on the continent as he's far away, and if we could get him to Friendly we'd have a reliable trading partner for the entire game (though, he currently looks like he'll be the most dangerous opponent with that peninsula he has roped off.)

Here are the techs I think would be useful for us (in no particular order):

1. Writing - for libraries/academies, Open Borders, allows Mathematics, Alphabet, prereq for Code of Laws
2. Sailing - coastal trade routes, lets us build lighthouses, required for Calendar
3. Masonry - lets us build the Great Lighthouse (if we want to) and hook up our Marble, prereq for Construction and Monotheism
4. Mathematics - gives us better forest chops and lets us get Calendar, Currency, Construction
5. Alphabet - lets us trade techs,
6. Mysticism -> Polytheism -> Monotheism/Priesthood -> Monarchy - Poly lets us get Literature for the Great Library, Monotheism gives Organized Religion (when we get a religion), Priesthood leads to Code of Laws and is cheaper (but so does Currency) and finally Monarchy gives us Hereditary Rule.
7. Calendar - lets us hook up our incense
8. Currency - lets us build markets (+1 happiness if we can trade for Qin's silk, and can run merchant specialists), let's us make trades for gold, let's us get Code of Laws
9. Construction - we get catapults as well as coliseums (+1 happiness, and half-price for us)
10. Literature - can build the Great Lighthouse as well as the two Epics
11. Metalcasting - forges for our cities, can build the Colossus (cheap with our copper, but sometimes industrious civs grab this one really early.)
12. Pottery, Agriculture - we'll need these worker techs eventually

That's a lot! :eek: I'm not sure what the best route is, though I think finishing Writing -> Sailing -> Masonry (optional, there if we want the Great Lighthouse or want to hook up the marble) -> Alphabet is a good path. Alphabet will then let us trade for whatever techs we need then.

Xtream_Rockstar said:
Taiosim might be the best due to philosohpy and first to descover philosophy gains a free tech

Actually, it's Liberalism that gives the free tech, but Philosophy is a prerequisite for that :)

Founding Taoism is usually pretty easy if you're willing to use a Great Scientist to discover it (you just need Meditation, Code of Laws, and Math I think to get him to research it.)

McLMan said:
Also, one thing I noticed while looking at hooking up the Gems. All the rivers on our continent (except the short one in the South) empty into lakes. Just that one 2 tile river runs to the coast. I haven't seen that before.

Yeah, that's really weird. :crazyeye: One other thing, too: Huayna and Cyrus are both connected by a really long river that goes up almost all the way to Qin! When we build our marble city, it might be worthwhile to build a few squares of road over to that river to establish trade routes with everyone.
 
Got it, will play in a couple of hours I think.
You raised lots of thoughts in the posts above, looks like we have many interesting decisions ahead!
 
(0) Switch Moscow to work boat. We want to get those clam down at St. Peter!
Also, when Moscow grows, we can call the warrior home for police duty, and get unhappiness down by one, allowing us to grow to size 5.
Moscow could use a granary, but we also need that work boat, and the axeman for happiness and safety.
St. Peter, however, gets switched to granary. We have two workers, for now that's all we need.
Research of writing seems fine to me, food is plenty so no need for agriculture, and sailing can only connect us with things we know, so no connection with Beijing anyway.

(1) nothing special. Move southern worker 1 tile, prebuild road.

(2) move southern worker to pigs, start pasture.

(3) horses connected, start roading northern pigs. That worker is already running out of useful things to do.

(4) Moscow grows. Workboat now in 2 since we can work both the horses and copper. Nice site we got there!

(5) our 11-hammer capital gets us 1st place in MFG. Good, that's the most important one imo. 2nd in GNP (!), that's damn good, too, rest kinda average. Nothing happened this turn.

(6) work boat done in Moscow. On its way down to St. Peter's clam. Axeman done in 2 now (because of leftover production and growth). Northern worker, which I've called Willy for no particular reason, finishes roading the sheep and now builds a cottage on a river grassland. That's what we'll probably work on next growth (in 8).
Right after: decide that this was stupid, we could better use a plains, since we won't be able to grow further soon.

(7) Axeman done in 1. Switch to barracks in the meantime, I want to wait for growth (7 turns), then produce the next settler. Barracks takes 9, plus 1 for the axer (can finish in 1 if necessary earlier), so we'll be 3 turns late. That's life, I guess. St. Peter has its sheep pastured now.

(8) void.

(9) a forest grows near Moscow. Outside the fat cross, but that's one more to chop! :)

(10) work boat at St. Peter now gets the clam. That city is at +8 food! Once we're able to rush that granary, I'll switch to slavery. This will be a whip powerhouse down there!

(11) Writing comes in. Sailing will be next, for a lighthouse both cities mostly. Then maybe Mathematics? HC switches to Slavery, so he's got BW, too.

(12) Cities are connected now. No immediate benefits though.

(13) HC offers open borders. I accept. Also get open borders with Qin, he's pleased with HC, so those two might be our allies during the next centuries. Moscow has grown to 5 (warrior police), can finish barracks in 1, then one turn after the axer. Also, we mapped out almost the whole continent now.

(14) barracks done.

(15) Papa Serf starts to chop for that granary. Should have done so earlier. Willy starts roading towards the site for our next city. The freshly built axeman goes there to await the settler.

(16) ...

(17) Build worker in St. Peter for 1 turn to avoid losing production.

(18)

(19) Sailing comes in. Going for maths. First barbs sighted. And: REVOLUTION!

(20) Vladimir gets killed. Forest chop near St. Peter is finished, gets the granary done far enough to rush it for 1 pop. Next turn, St. Peter will both grow and finish the granary. Then we can continue on the worker, or build something else.



As of now, no beakers have been researched towards Mathematics (because of the revolution). Feel free to change it if you want. Judaism has been founded in the meantime, so I see no reason for us to go the religious route. Also, Masonry can wait until after Mathematics, we won't get #2 settled and culture-expanded that fast.
The axeman is heading to the spot for our next city. From where Willy is now, he can build a road directly to that spot. Maybe Papa Serf can help him, I don't know what else he might do now. Or maybe build a cottage on the river plains tile for St. Peter?

After growth (ie, next turn), St. Peter shouldn't work the pigs any more - we can't grow until the whip wears off, in 15 turns. You can see that by hovering over the rush production icon, it will take as many turns as it shows there above 15 until the unhappiness is gone. I'd suggest working two plains forests or cottage the river tile, and one plains forest. Of course, if you continue with the worker, keep working the pigs.

I think it might be worth a thought to rush the settler in Moscow next turn (when, I suppose, it'll cost 2 pop). Moscow can be a fast grower, too, so it'll recover quite fast. I don't want to give a recommendation here, though, I'm not sure what I'd prefer.
NOTE: I've put Moscow on "avoid growth". If you want to grow it later, remember this!

I just noticed that Moscow is on +3 food. If we'd cottage another plain, we can get this to 0 by not working the clam, and gain 1 production plus some commerce once the cottage grows. Since Willy is busy, maybe that would be something Papa Serf could do? Or we work a plains forest, forget about the 3 commerce and take 2 hammers instead. The good thing is we don't need a worker up there, then. After the settler is done, in any case.


Now, look at this!
1300BC-Persiasnewborders.jpg




And this is our south:
1300BC-southernRussia.jpg



Finally, the save.
Woobi, your turn!
 
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