[SCENARIO] Me, myself, and the (Pit's) World Map shenanigans.

If there are bonus prerequisites it can keep units off the trade grid from being able to upgrade 'anywhere'. This is something I'm giving more thorough consideration to in some unit planning details right now. Also strongly considering adding another level to that unlocking of anywhere upgrading to another layer of Innovative so as to even invalidate that need.
Thanks, though I'm not sure it needs any special bonuses for it.
I already closed the game for today, so I won't bother checking it now.
It's clearly not the first time or unit type that I've seen this happening, indeed.
Really frustrating, lol.
 
Thanks, though I'm not sure it needs any special bonuses for it.
I already closed the game for today, so I won't bother checking it now.
It's clearly not the first time or unit type that I've seen this happening, indeed.
Really frustrating, lol.
Most units do require some sort of bonus access to build. If they require it to build, they require it to upgrade. Many are on your trade routes when they are 'anywhere' and some units don't require but just get modified in their build costs by access and those are much more easily upgraded 'anywhere'.
 
Most units do require some sort of bonus access to build. If they require it to build, they require it to upgrade. Many are on your trade routes when they are 'anywhere' and some units don't require but just get modified in their build costs by access and those are much more easily upgraded 'anywhere'.
I guess I'd need to wait until "Trade by SEA" is unlocked, right?
Because that would automatically make all my ships "on the trade route", am I correct?
Since that's how LAND units can upgrade in the middle of nowhere - there's probably a river nearby or something, which triggers "trading route".
OR they simply don't need "additional resources", I kinda didn't think of THAT.
Right or not?
(I'll play some more later on, so I'll check whether Trade by Sea is ON or OFF now. Also, can I trade with Minor Civs to begin with? That's just a related question, lol.)
 
I guess I'd need to wait until "Trade by SEA" is unlocked, right?
Because that would automatically make all my ships "on the trade route", am I correct?
Since that's how LAND units can upgrade in the middle of nowhere - there's probably a river nearby or something, which triggers "trading route".
OR they simply don't need "additional resources", I kinda didn't think of THAT.
Right or not?
(I'll play some more later on, so I'll check whether Trade by Sea is ON or OFF now. Also, can I trade with Minor Civs to begin with? That's just a related question, lol.)
That's my running theory on the situation yes. Pretty sure that's the case.
 
That's my running theory on the situation yes. Pretty sure that's the case.
Damn, forgot to check THAT point.
I've just played for a while and saw THIS:
1. Still can't upgrade a ship out in foreign water (even on coast).
2. Couldn't upgrade a ship literally next to a city that had no Shipwright.
3. Right the next turn after building Shipwright there, I finally could upgrade the ship in the city culture radius (and I think also nearby, already kinda forgot exactly).
So, yeah, "trading routes" shenanigans.
ANNOYING...
 
Damn, forgot to check THAT point.
I've just played for a while and saw THIS:
1. Still can't upgrade a ship out in foreign water (even on coast).
2. Couldn't upgrade a ship literally next to a city that had no Shipwright.
3. Right the next turn after building Shipwright there, I finally could upgrade the ship in the city culture radius (and I think also nearby, already kinda forgot exactly).
So, yeah, "trading routes" shenanigans.
ANNOYING...
Building prereqs make it even more difficult
 
Building prereqs make it even more difficult
Well, the annoying part isn't so much that you can't upgrade, but more so that it's pretty much impossible to predict WHERE you CAN.
Or, in shorter words: BAD USELESS DESCRIPTION, again.
This time of "Innovative" and its "everywhere", which is an open LIE.
Damn.
 
Well, the annoying part isn't so much that you can't upgrade, but more so that it's pretty much impossible to predict WHERE you CAN.
Or, in shorter words: BAD USELESS DESCRIPTION, again.
This time of "Innovative" and its "everywhere", which is an open LIE.
Damn.
So @Thunderbrd either change description, or make it upgradeable absolutely anywhere - that is no matter of location.
 
So @Thunderbrd either change description, or make it upgradeable absolutely anywhere - that is no matter of location.
I'd prefer "removing the limits altogether", since it's more clear than "you can upgrade on trade routes, which are invisible and must be guessed".
But that's just me.

I'm sure I've seen "weird behavior" in regards to Great General EXP as well.
Like, getting 10 points per kill (not for the unit, but for the GG bar itself) - when no visible explanation seems to exist.
And it's rather early on, too, so it's not like I've had piles of EXP-boosting buildings and forgot to count them in.
It's also "kinda random", as in I can't exactly figure out how to predict it, but I'm totally sure I've seen it happen MANY times.
And it's always "inside my borders", so it's a glitch of THAT type of calculation, definitely.
But no example save, since it's kinda unpredictable (and had been seen a while ago).
 
TURN 400.

Well, finally met a FULL CIV, lol.
Not much what to tell else, though.
Just playing and having FUN.
 

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Well, the annoying part isn't so much that you can't upgrade, but more so that it's pretty much impossible to predict WHERE you CAN.
Or, in shorter words: BAD USELESS DESCRIPTION, again.
This time of "Innovative" and its "everywhere", which is an open LIE.
Damn.
Yeah, noted - it was somewhat left a little unfinished in that - the ability was explained that way on one of our previous core traits a long time before complex traits included it. There's not enough room to get into details on a quarter line text display so it needs a bit more in the pedia or something or a rename to say 'usually everywhere' which leaves an unanswered vagueness to the rule. There are a few complexities beyond just saying can upgrade fully qualified units wherever they are - which is still clunky as well. Plus, I have always wanted to split that tag into a gradient of abilities to ignore those qualifications.

Note that I am working with some unitline plans specifically to actually fully qualify to upgrade anywhere very specifically while others according to these rules don't, as TMV points out, break immersion when they are upgraded as they shouldn't BE upgradeable anywhere exactly.

Yes, it needs to be considered somehow a way to restructure the wording on this tag. But its certainly not on the table to completely abandon ALL rational restrictions entirely. A more advanced version of this ability might be justifiable in a way - suggesting that there are engineers along with every unit prepared to upgrade them - BUT that will make more sense during equipment mod environments where equipments AREN'T upgradeable anywhere although can be brought to units in the field.

Maybe for now the ability be redescribed as 'Limited capability to upgrade units in the field' ?
 
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Yeah, noted - it was somewhat left a little unfinished in that - the ability was explained that way on one of our previous core traits a long time before complex traits included it. There's not enough room to get into details on a quarter line text display so it needs a bit more in the pedia or something or a rename to say 'usually everywhere' which leaves an unanswered vagueness to the rule. There are a few complexities beyond just saying can upgrade fully qualified units wherever they are - which is still clunky as well. Plus, I have always wanted to split that tag into a gradient of abilities to ignore those qualifications.

Note that I am working with some unitline plans specifically to actually fully qualify to upgrade anywhere very specifically while others according to these rules don't, as TMV points out, break immersion when they are upgraded as they shouldn't BE upgradeable anywhere exactly.

Yes, it needs to be considered somehow a way to restructure the wording on this tag. But its certainly not on the table to completely abandon ALL rational restrictions entirely. A more advanced version of this ability might be justifiable in a way - suggesting that there are engineers along with every unit prepared to upgrade them - BUT that will make more sense during equipment mod environments where equipments AREN'T upgradeable anywhere although can be brought to units in the field.

Maybe for now the ability be redescribed as 'Limited capability to upgrade units in the field' ?
Whatever, though it's a bit sad to not be ACTUALLY "everywhere", lol.
But if and when the mod transfers fully to Equipment, the entire concept of Upgrading should be overhauled a LOT anyways, no?
I can already imagine Equipment working somewhat similar to Unit Attachment (aka Noble/General), but also Tradeable between units, lol.
Like UnitCombatMods, but not rigidly fixed to the actual unit, lol.
Sure, though, this is in a quite far future now, so never mind.
 
But if and when the mod transfers fully to Equipment, the entire concept of Upgrading should be overhauled a LOT anyways, no?
Yes/no... it will be optional so there's only so much overhauling. It will mostly be a way to swap out specializations for your units and qualify sometimes for some unusual benefits, as well as reflect some technological gradients of development at a more granular pacing than the upgrades alone are tracking.
I can already imagine Equipment working somewhat similar to Unit Attachment (aka Noble/General), but also Tradeable between units, lol.
That's how it works in FFH2 but it will be a little more like status promotions and a very separate inventory system for transporting what isn't directly applied (being used) to the unit. Think of differing ways to outfit a unit. For example, a stone thrower may have many small stones or a few fist sized ones or one really large one, maybe higher quality ones if there's a riverbed in the city radius where the stones are produced and maybe higher quality still if stone or marble is available. And yes, for a small amount of time, what's dropped in the field can be reclaimed by local units who want access to something they just earned, or to be picked up by transportation units to be brought elsewhere.

Like UnitCombatMods, but not rigidly fixed to the actual unit, lol.
Unitcombats determine what a unit can and can't use and there will be promos that let you train units into different or crossover roles - (axemen trained to use rifles for example). The equipment themselves will be promos if applied and they can be swapped out when the situation allows for local access to other options.

It is unfortunately a little ways yet to come but some of the AI overhaul on this unit plan will prep us for it. Unfortunately, it's going to really also require a lot of setup work on reviewing building chains and bonus conversion manufacturing stuff so we preplan what will give access to various things and so on. That, however, will give us an opportunity to dramatically improve the economy balance problems that chaotic building design has given us.
 
We're in a very special design phase at the moment where perhaps more work than ever is being done but it just doesn't look like it because we're patiently restructuring so much of the chaos into an action plan. It's all I can do not to get us sliding backwards due to the cry to perfect what we have now, which I feel is very little like the end intent in many ways. It's getting closer to suddenly exploding with improved game structure in numerous ways and once that has happened and is in place, it may be a better time to address some more of the smaller issues - though we do have flabbert doing an amazing job on trying to repair some long standing problematic spots that aren't going to be covered by some of this pending overhaul.
 
We're in a very special design phase at the moment where perhaps more work than ever is being done but it just doesn't look like it because we're patiently restructuring so much of the chaos into an action plan. It's all I can do not to get us sliding backwards due to the cry to perfect what we have now, which I feel is very little like the end intent in many ways. It's getting closer to suddenly exploding with improved game structure in numerous ways and once that has happened and is in place, it may be a better time to address some more of the smaller issues - though we do have flabbert doing an amazing job on trying to repair some long standing problematic spots that aren't going to be covered by some of this pending overhaul.
Like I keep saying (and this is echoed by a crowd of others):
I. LOVE.THIS. MOD!
LOOOL!
 
Just a fun moment.

West meets East... Oh, wait a sec..! LOOOL!
 

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This applies to ANY "upgrade out there" then.
NONE of them "make sense" in the real life context, lol.
There is still a difference. There are also a few promotions that would be possible in real life, like Clubman -> Spiked Clubman. More would be possible with engineers present (and engineers have been part of the army since ancient times). But building a completely new ship in the middle of the ocean is on a different level.
 
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