[C3C] Mechanics Explorations

[ThesaurusRex]

I tried looking for an existing thread, but it's kind of hard to know what to search for so I decided better to just make one.

Basically, I'm just curious about all the ways people have introduced or altered a mechanic in the editor (vanilla or cracked) to produce a novel gameplay result. Not really anything specific, just whatever and whenever they pop into peoples' heads. I'm sure people have had plenty over the countless years. Maybe by having them all in one thread other people could get inspired for their own scenarios, who knows. I'm sure some people already had some of the ideas I had though.

I remember way back I made a simple edit preventing anyone from producing Settlers naturally. Some civs were still able to have two or more cities (from goody huts I imagine) but it was largely a big city-state free-for-all and surprisingly engaging and competitive for just a small edit. AI was relying a lot more on colonies. Could be worth me looking over again.

Something else I've been wanting to try only makes sense on large maps, but involves movement costs. A movement higher than 1 is the default for units, but almost all terrain has some sort of movement cost to it. Different units (also maybe from different civilizations) can ignore the costs of these terrain types. I haven't tried it so I don't completely know what ramifications it could have.

Going off discussions from another thread, I've figured a way to make more dynamic "barbarians". It's basically just hidden nationality units tied to whatever AI civs you've designated unplayable. Give them the Enslave option where they can produce another one of themselves or a different unit to 'upgrade'. Since they probably won't be able to keep their numbers up from enemy civs alone, you may still need to give them large numbers of real barbarians to "eat" as part of a stateless food web. And if you have competing HN units from another civ, things could get really interesting. Only thing a barbarian can do that a faux-barb can't (other than indefinitely spawn) is sack a city, whereas the latter can't touch them, so I think it works out pretty well.

I've also been trying and failing to think about realistically making an island-type terrain a thing: too small to believably build "cities" on, but enough land to garrison units. I thought I could do it by making a LM Coast (using the cracked editors), increased defense bonus, that could allow forts & airfields to be placed, but then I forgot...can't edit LM terrain that far Could try with a land tile, but then can't have sea units without a city and then it kind of defeats the point.

 

[Alekseyev_]

The scenario "The Desert and the Mountain" by Plotinus had 5 unique tech trees (+2 for non-playable Arab/tribal nations) for the different playable civs, with sometimes more unique aspects to them each. This led to a very diverse gameplay, I highly suggest taking a look at it.

One such thing is the three civs Kanem-Bornu, Hausa and Ouaddai starting with 10 shield, 1 pop "nomad" settlers, but being unable to create workers. They can quickly settle a lot of land, but cannot improve their terrain. And instead of linking up resources with roads, they have to settle on them and then use the "stable" building to add them to the (reflavoured airport) trade network. Workers only become available really late in their tech tree, which also replaces their cheap settlers with really expensive ones, representing a shift from nomadism to a more sedentary civilisation.

"The Rood and the Dragon" by the same author also had some interesting features: Buildings locked to religion-based governments and a sub-bug-triggered Viking invasion. (The Vikings are further incentivised by having very cheap transport ships and having some resources for special buildings that are only visible/available to them spread across the anglo-saxon countries.)

As for other random stuff that comes to mind:
AnthonyBoscia's 1989 scenario uses some clever placement of units in central europe in order to force units of some civs (like the soviets) to attack large enemy stacks rather than consolidating at home, because they are "locked in" by other friendly units behind them.
IIRC Civinator used cities that are separated from the trade network (and can't be linked up) for unique unit production in Storm over Europe as special economic zones.

Only thing a barbarian can do that a faux-barb can't (other than indefinitely spawn) is sack a city, whereas the latter can't touch them, so I think it works out pretty well.

I believe HN units can conquer cities in the hands of an AI, just not in those of a human.

 

[Civinator]

IIRC Civinator used cities that are separated from the trade network (and can't be linked up) for unique unit production in Storm over Europe as special economic zones.

I believe HN units can conquer cities in the hands of an AI, just not in those of a human.

AI HN-units can conquer cities without declaring war, while HN-units of the human player only can attack and conquer cities after having declared war to the civ that is holding that city.

With the wonderful options in the next version of the Flintlock patch, many new parts of modding C3C can be written.

 

[Spoonwood]

I've played some starts with part of the variant as that I have to declare war on AIs as soon as I meet them. But, I generally prefer to build infrastructure before units. Finding that such can prove a likely disaster or need a swap from an almost completed granary, I've edited out the AIs having free units. I've still gotten met by a scout early, but I could put a granary and barracks first, before I needed units. I've also played on a level with a cost factor of 6 like Deity, except, the AI doesn't have free units, and it seemed a lot easier to settle territory.

I've also given the AIs the same amount of free units and unit support as on Sid, but made them have a cost factor of 10 like Regent. They appeared to research almost as fast as on Sid level in the ancient age, but I managed to keep up, unlike how Sid games usually go.

I've also played with the standard tile penalty getting removed from despotism, and as I would guess you anticipate, it's easier to expand in the ancient age, since one can get a high food capital up to produce settlers, with enough bonus grassalnds around even without a food bonuses. I have less of a read as to how much AIs irrigation being useful affects things, though it has to make them have better production or commerce in some situations.

 

[ThesaurusRex]

AI HN-units can conquer cities without declaring war, while HN-units of the human player only can attack and conquer cities after having declared war to the civ that is holding that city.

With the wonderful options in the next version of the Flintlock patch, many new parts of modding C3C can be written.

Really? I thought that was changed for Conquests. I must have misread.

 

[Civinator]

Really? I thought that was changed for Conquests. I must have misread.

Yes, really. In CCM 2.50 there are plenty of those units, where you can watch their performance.

 

[Ozymandias]

Yes, really. In CCM 2.50 there are plenty of those units, where you can watch their performance.

 

[Ozymandias]

... Beyond that ( ) you might also glance at, "An Intro To & An Encyclopedia Of Modding"

 

[Takhisis]

Uhm, do I have to point out a thing called ‘Escape from Zombie Island’?

Anyway, something I do in my games is that, when I reach that stage when I have a crapton of workers left idle by not having any more production improvements to add, I just build a lot of barricades. This is aimed to prevent the AI from suddenly sneak-attacking across the border with a stack of cavalry, tanks or even modern armour units.

If you can combine it with the funnel of doom proposed by Sir Pleb (strategically positioning very strong units so that the AI will attack along an unprotected channel) the two tactics are synergic: the AI decides to engage in a chevauchée and individually pillage tiles. That means that at least three units will peel off to pillage a tile (remove barricade, rails and road) and they can be safely bombarded by massed artillery.

For added evilness you can just plan forests along the border, especially if you have enough culture that this doesn't interfere with your cities' production.

 

[Ozymandias]

"Escape From Zombie Island 2 Elite"

Yo, @Vuldacon! Ain't it time for, "EFZ III?" You've done a lot of work on that fantastic mod of yours.

 

[Vuldacon]

Yo, @Vuldacon! Ain't it time for, "EFZ III?" You've done a lot of work on that fantastic mod of yours.

Yes, I have a Game Tested Update but trying to see if I can Update my Game that is here ... I hope by the end of the year

 

[Ozymandias]

Yes, I have a Game Tested Update but trying to see if I can Update my Game that is here ... I hope by the end of the year

 

[timerover51]

@ ThesaurusRex
You might want to look at TETurkhan's Test of Time scenario in Play the World. He has two different groups of civilizations with two different settlers, two different leaders, and two different armies. The thing about the different leaders: Leader and Leaders, is that as soon as you change Leader to Leaders, the civilization can then build Leaders as regular units. Leader is hard-coded, but with the change you can give Leader characteristics to any unit, and then build them. The AI will take advantage of this.

It carries over into Conquests as well, which can make for interesting Conquest games.

The thing is that you can set the new Leaders, or I have been designating the civilization ruler as the Leader unit, Leaders unit can finish ANY improvement, not just a Wonder. I have made the Leaders unit expensive in terms of population and shields, but it definitely changes the game. I am working on a mod for Conquests where each civilization has its own leader unit, which it can build. You can adjust this by technology advance or required resources, or both.

 

[Theov]

In my mod, the Mongolians can build special Barbarian Units (HN).
In the hands of the AI, they can sack cities.
What happens is, is that Mongolia loves these units (I made them like that) and will torment the other players like a real barbarian nation - however this cripples any AI that's on the continent with the Mongols - because the other AIs lose settlers and workers to them. And a lot of units of course because the other AI has to spend a lot of resources on units to fight these HN units.

Other than that they pillage and plunder everything in sight, the Mongols are a fun party to have around.

 

[timerover51]

In my mod, the Mongolians can build special Barbarian Units (HN).
In the hands of the AI, they can sack cities.
What happens is, is that Mongolia loves these units (I made them like that) and will torment the other players like a real barbarian nation - however this cripples any AI that's on the continent with the Mongols - because the other AIs lose settlers and workers to them. And a lot of units of course because the other AI has to spend a lot of resources on units to fight these HN units.

Other than that they pillage and plunder everything in sight, the Mongols are a fun party to have around.

I need to go back and take another look at your mod.

 

[Theov]

I need to go back and take another look at your mod.

I've updated the download with the latest changes.

 

[tjs282]

One idea that I found very interesting (first seen on @Marla_Singer's World Map, IIRC) is to give Ocean tiles a move-cost of zero. Once the tech(s) has been unlocked which allows Ocean-capable ships and/or safe Ocean travel(/trade), intercontinental voyages to/from any point on the map could then be completed within 1–2 turns in total, even on the Hugest of maps, i.e. essentially scaling ship-movement-rates with map-size, without the exploit/ tedium/ necessity of 'ship-chaining'. In the epic-game, that might also encourage the human player to aim for Navigation (optional tech), instead of skipping it.

Declarations of war from an Ocean-going AI would then be potentially more dangerous, since their entire navy could arrive almost anywhere in the world, almost immediately after declaring (instead of 5–10–15 turns / decades–centuries of game-time later). To prevent that from happening in the very early game, Oceans could also be given the "Impassable to Wheeled" flag, and very early ships the "Wheeled" flag, restricting their range to their home continent, plus any nearby islands accessible by unbroken Coast/Sea routes.

The idea could be further refined by increasing the movement-cost of Coast tiles to 2, but allowing Ancient vessels to ignore this cost, so that their (default) low M-values were not crippling — whereas Medieval ships would not ignore this cost. Thus an invading Medieval armada might be forced to halt on a hostile Sea/Coast tile, giving the defending player an opportunity to sink some/all of them. The +1MP buff to Seafaring nations' ships might then become more significant, if it allowed ships to land their troops and then retreat to home waters.

Industrial/Modern ships (e.g. Destroyers and up) could then also have their M-values (significantly) reduced compared to the epic-game without losing utility. If they were given the ATAR flag, their movement-rates could be still further reduced (and the Seafaring-buff magnified accordingly), which might also open up the possibility of allowing e.g. Battleships to Blitz — giving the player a strategic choice between making hit-and-run attacks on enemy shores, or doing additional damage but risking leaving their expensive ships in hostile waters over the interturn. (Not sure if/how ATAR would interact with a terrain move-cost of zero, though).

One potential disadvantage of giving Oceans move-cost=0 is that the entire world Ocean could theoretically be fully explored within a single turn, by a single Ocean-capable ship, which might cause game-slowdown when it happens — but that might be a price worth paying?

 

[Alekseyev_]

That idea is incredibly interesting!

Also makes me wonder how 0-move-cost terrain interacts with the "ignore terrain movement cost" flag a unit can have.

 

[timerover51]

One idea that I found very interesting (first seen on @Marla_Singer's World Map, IIRC) is to give Ocean tiles a move-cost of zero. Once the tech(s) has been unlocked which allows Ocean-capable ships and/or safe Ocean travel(/trade), intercontinental voyages to/from any point on the map could then be completed within 1–2 turns in total, even on the Hugest of maps, i.e. essentially scaling ship-movement-rates with map-size, without the exploit/ tedium/ necessity of 'ship-chaining'. In the epic-game, that might also encourage the human player to aim for Navigation (optional tech), instead of skipping it.

Declarations of war from an Ocean-going AI would then be potentially more dangerous, since their entire navy could arrive almost anywhere in the world, almost immediately after declaring (instead of 5–10–15 turns / decades–centuries of game-time later). To prevent that from happening in the very early game, Oceans could also be given the "Impassable to Wheeled" flag, and very early ships the "Wheeled" flag, restricting their range to their home continent, plus any nearby islands accessible by unbroken Coast/Sea routes.

The idea could be further refined by increasing the movement-cost of Coast tiles to 2, but allowing Ancient vessels to ignore this cost, so that their (default) low M-values were not crippling — whereas Medieval ships would not ignore this cost. Thus an invading Medieval armada might be forced to halt on a hostile Sea/Coast tile, giving the defending player an opportunity to sink some/all of them. The +1MP buff to Seafaring nations' ships might then become more significant, if it allowed ships to land their troops and then retreat to home waters.

Industrial/Modern ships (e.g. Destroyers and up) could then also have their M-values (significantly) reduced compared to the epic-game without losing utility. If they were given the ATAR flag, their movement-rates could be still further reduced (and the Seafaring-buff magnified accordingly), which might also open up the possibility of allowing e.g. Battleships to Blitz — giving the player a strategic choice between making hit-and-run attacks on enemy shores, or doing additional damage but risking leaving their expensive ships in hostile waters over the interturn. (Not sure if/how ATAR would interact with a terrain move-cost of zero, though).

One potential disadvantage of giving Oceans move-cost=0 is that the entire world Ocean could theoretically be fully explored within a single turn, by a single Ocean-capable ship, which might cause game-slowdown when it happens — but that might be a price worth paying?

I simply increase the speed of the more advanced ships, as it is ridiculous to have an aircraft carrier or destroyer moving at the same speed as a galley.

 

[Theov]

I simply increase the speed of the more advanced ships, as it is ridiculous to have an aircraft carrier or destroyer moving at the same speed as a galley.

I really like the idea of speeding up modern ships and maybe slowing them down on the coast.