Medieval - Renaissance Mod

[Dom Pedro II]

One word: Moghuls

Secondly, the Ottomans should be in there definitely.

I would include the Empire of Mali in Africa and the Monomotapa Empire centered at Great Zimbabwe and extending to Mozambique. It'll be rather important in the initial interactions with the Chinese and Portuguese explorers in the game.

If you really want to get fancy, you should have the Earth undergo a profound climatic change around 1300-1350... that should be the death knell of the Mayans and open the door for the Aztecs to rapidly fill the void the Mayans leave. Basically, I'd suggest that this should reduce food yields on most tiles and maybe change some terrains from one kind to another kind.

Europe and Asia should also be pummeled unmercifully by the intercontinental pandemic disease known in Europe as the Black Death in the 1300s.

And make sure the Chinese have a real shot at winning... In the year 1500, the Europeans were far from guaranteed the position of top dog they later assumed. It was anybody's game really, and I think the scenario should reflect that.

 

[woodelf]

Mind explaining it to me? lol

Kushan

This basically means that if this old dog can rudimentarily learn XML, then anyone can! I have faith you can easily learn enough to make this mod great!

 

[hetairoi22]

Does this warrent a place for Poland in your mod?

Alternatively, Poland-Lithuania could be added, though that might not be too great, considering that this only existed from around 1350-1400.

@Dom Pedro II: I agree with having a greater representation of Africa, though the problem remains, that we are growing to a number of civs above 18 now. I don't know if that'll pose problems. We might try to stick with less than 18 civs, and more general and überpowerful civs (like China, Spain etc.) or try to reach a higher number, but have more specific and less well known civs, like the different African states, the Papal State, Castille, Aragon, Hungary etc. Just my 2 cents, though... Either way this mod looks to be very interesting.

 

[Kushan]

I was aiming for having between 16 and 18 Civilizations. Europe is already going to be crowded, but now that it has been mentioned, I'm thinking about adding one or two more civilizations into Africa. Any ideas?

The time period this is being based in, the Byzantine empire was still in existence, so no Ottomans, least for the moment. They were weak, but the Constantinople still hadnt fallen to the Ottomans/Arabians.

Tha Papal state wont be included, What was the papal state will fall under the Holy Roman Empire.

So in the case of Poland, Poland or Russia. Europe is already going to be crowded so we cant have both atm. From the evidence presented I'd say Poland.

Sorry for not including all the smaller Kingdoms, but again Europe is already going to be crowded. If someone comes up with a bigger world map of terra, then maybe I will add these factions later.

This basically means that if this old dog can rudimentarily learn XML, then anyone can! I have faith you can easily learn enough to make this mod great!

I am starting to get a feel for it. One thing I am not understanding is why is there multiple entrys for the same unit? ex:

UNITCLASS_SPEARMAN UNIT_SPEARMAN
UNITCLASS_SPEARMAN UNIT_SPEARMAN
UNITCLASS_SPEARMAN UNIT_SPEARMAN
UNITCLASS_SPEARMAN UNIT_SPEARMAN
UNITCLASS_SPEARMAN UNIT_SPEARMAN
UNITCLASS_SPEARMAN UNIT_SPEARMAN
UNITCLASS_SPEARMAN UNIT_SPEARMAN
UNITCLASS_SPEARMAN UNIT_SPEARMAN
UNITCLASS_SPEARMAN UNIT_SPEARMAN
UNITCLASS_SPEARMAN UNIT_SPEARMAN
UNITCLASS_SPEARMAN UNIT_SPEARMAN
UNITCLASS_SPEARMAN UNIT_SPEARMAN
UNITCLASS_SPEARMAN UNIT_SPEARMAN
UNITCLASS_SPEARMAN UNIT_SPEARMAN
UNITCLASS_SPEARMAN UNIT_SPEARMAN
UNITCLASS_SPEARMAN UNIT_SPEARMAN
UNITCLASS_SPEARMAN UNIT_SPEARMAN

Thats about the only thigns that has me confused atm. Time for some more reading lol.

Kushan

 

[Jorgen_CAB]

I would say, make it a medieval European mod or a medieval Asian mod... 18 civilizations is hardly enough for Europe if you want to portray it even slightly realistic.

Going for the world will be boring i think, keep the dates from around 600-1400 or something, up until the time of discovery. The first to discover the new world could be like building the spaceship.

But that is just my idea.

 

[Rulkiewicz]

Hurray for Poland!

 

[woodelf]

I think the multiple entries are because the class is a general term, but you can have specific types of spearmen? Since I don't know where you took those from I don't really know. I've been working backwards; taknig what other people have changed and figuring out what each change does. So far, so good.

I would recommend Alex's Uniques discussion, the Lost Units discussion, and some other unit discussions. They might clear some stuff up.

 

[Mumin]

I prefer "Scandinavians" to "Kalmar Union", as it was very unstable and rather short-lived. (And quite impopular here in Sweden.)

I also believe Poland was more important (and much, much wealthier) than Russia during this time.

 

[Fireb]

Lots of interesting ideas

Its a very interesting theme, and there is a lot that you can do to it. Here are some things you might like to think about:

The most important would be, as someone mentioned above, to concentrate on a geographic area (europe, asia, the new world, etc), rather than making a world map, as there are too many civs which had an important impact on that period).

Combat modifications:
Castles and fortifications in cities, chokepoints, river crossings.
Setting up ambushes in forests, cavalry bonus defending on hills
Naval warfare mods: if you're using a world map, there's no way to defend the channel from a French invasion! (for example). This isn't realistic.

Warfare:
The european medieval period is a period of war! No space race, no culture (until renaissance). Few wonders. Just fighting, war, raiding, sieges and occasional rampant periods (huns, mongols, turks, arabs, spanish after the reconquista, napoleon, etc). Gameplay and events should reflect this.

Unit mods:
If your making a medieval mod, you need to make some effort so that it looks and feels medieval. Several UU's for each nation (even if they are basic units re-skinned) are necessary for this.

Some european unit ideas:
Light cavalry, heavy cavalry, horse archers:
dragoons, cuirassiers, hussars
Order knights (templars, hospitalier, teutonic, etc).
Byzantine cavalry (hun and heruli mercenaries, bucellarii, etc)

Elite Heavy infantry:
Foot knights, halbardiers, huskarls, swiss mercenaries, etc

Light/levee infantry

Foot Archers:
Italian crossbows, welsh longbows (only english can build!), persian archers, etc

Cannon:
There was quite an evolution between the early cannon to take down Constantinoples' walls, and the napoleonic era cannon. This could be reflected.

Gunpowder units:
Again, quite a lot of evolution between the early arquebus through to the musket, blunderbuss, etc.

EVENTS:
Random uprisings, revolts, barbarian/pirate invasions, and possibly historical events too (mongols, 100 years' war) etc.

This is all a euro-centric view of course. Still, I think if you want to make a really good mod, you need to narrow the scope! The world is too big, even for Genghis Khan

 

[Master Kodama]

What is the exact timeline for this mod? That's a deciding factor in what civilizations to include, particularly in the New World.

Keep in mind that the Aztecs didn't get started until 1325 (founding of Tenochtitlan). If you're starting as early as 1000 AD, you could change them to the Toltecs, but after that you're more or less SOL until 1325, as far as strong, unified empires in central Mexico go.

The Inca didn't show up until 1200 (founding of Cuzco; their expansionist period didn't start until much later, somethinglike 1450 before which they were pretty much just in Cuzco).

The North American tribes should probably be split up into several "minor civs" (don't do diplomacy), like the Mississippians/Cahokia, Anasazi, maybe the Iroquois, perhaps a Northwestern group, etc. One of these groups could be playable, I suppose.

As for Africa, I believe Mali was founded c. 1200.

Also, I recommend this naming convention if you think swordsman is too generic:

Swordsman => Footman

And on the subject of swordsman, footman, and foot knights, you could add in the unused Crusader unit as a special European unit.

 

[Petr Velikiy]

If you are ever going to add a Sweedish civilization to the game, the Rennainsance is when you should do it. Little, if anything has Sweden provided to the direction of Europe as they did under Charles XII in the early 18th century. Predominantly a people of trade, the Swedes came into their own late 17th and early 18th century. Charles XII was a daring commander. Just before, and during the Great Northern War, they were a force in the European theater. Quite possibly the only worry of the countries getting ready to fight Louis XIV in the War of Spanish Succession. You should really consider adding Sweden under the leadership of Charles XII. Main unit would be Cavalry with rush attack promotion. Man those Swedes were head first into everything .

 

[Mumin]

Heh! Charles XII's misadventures spelled the end of Sweden as a Rouge State (i.e. Great Power) and the rise of Russia as one. We're also starting to hit the Enlightenment here. Charles X is a better pick, as he represents Sweden's peak of power. (Not a nicer, but a more succesful king. As a matter of fact, he made the vikings look like amateurs.)

Sweden's main strength during this time should be massive metal resources resulting in lots of nasty and innovative cannons. I've heard about a third of the entire worlds iron production during the 18th century and half of Europe's copper production during the medieval times. Sweden also made extensive use of riding Pistoliers.

That said, Scandinavians are probably enough unless a special 17th century scenario is made. (The Thirty years war springs to my mind.)

 

[Kushan]

Heh! Charles XII's misadventures spelled the end of Sweden as a Rouge State (i.e. Great Power) and the rise of Russia as one. We're also starting to hit the Enlightenment here.

I'm actually planning on ending the senerio right after the start of the Age of Discovery, not to far past the discovery of the new world. Havent quite descided the exact start date yet. Was thinking right before the start of the First Crusade. That way there will be established powers in Europe.

On another note, I am going to be changing the tech tree around. The Guilds tech, instead of unlocking knights will unlock German and Swiss Mercenaries for the European power that research it. These units will come in a few different unit types; ex. Pikeman, Archer/Longbowman/Crossbowman, Mouted Knight, Foot Knight, etc. These units will be slightly stronger then a nations "regular" units but will cost a lot more to maintain, to avoid a player using them over faction units.

If anyone has any ideas on any new techs to include in the tech tree, please post them.

Also I am taking ideas on what African Tribes to include, so please post those as well.

Thanks again for all the support.

Kushan

Edit 1: On yet another note, I am making progress with working with XML, I hope to start actual modding sometime this week.

Edit 2: I am also looking at several user made maps. I hope to have the map finalized within the next few days. I want to keep the world map, to be able to simulate the early race to the new world. I will be experimanting with a world map, with a slightly enlarge Europe. This should allow for more cities per the major powers. If this map wont fit my purposes, then I will be looking for a map of Europe, that includes significant portions of the Middle East and Africa.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

Charles XII's invasion of Russia marked one of those rare moments in history where personal decision would make the difference between astounding victory and utter defeat. In making a decision that one historian called "military suicide" he abruptly turned from his march to Moscow, abandoned this plan and linking up with his supply trains and began the march southward toward Poltava and disaster.

 

[woodelf]

Sounds good so far Kushan. I like the ending at the Age of Discovery or somewhere close to that.

And there are some wonderful premade maps out there.

 

[Ultramyth]

Gunpowder has been much more present in history than you might expect as has been mentioned.

It's been on the scene since at least the 14th century, in both artillery and firearm forms.

Early Artillery:

Bombard
Seige Bombard (moves 1 square per turn, regardless of roads)

Early Firearms:

Handgonner

Early Renaissance Artillery:

Culverin
Cannon (weaker than seige bombards, mut more agile)

Early Renaissance Firearms:

Harquebusier (arquebusier)

Special Units:

Swiss Pikeman
Landschnect Mercenary (german greatsword (flambard?))
Cavalier (french knight)
Highlander (scottish claymore)

 

[maxpublic]

Lithuania was the most powerful kingdom in Eastern Europe during the latter part of the Middle Ages (1253 on), and by some measures the most powerful kingdom in all of Europe - certainly more technologically and culturally advanced than the barbarians in the west. Today we think of Lithuania as a tiny Baltic state, but during this time period it was enormous and formidable.

Max

 

[Petr Velikiy]

Heh! Charles XII's misadventures spelled the end of Sweden as a Rouge State (i.e. Great Power) and the rise of Russia as one. We're also starting to hit the Enlightenment here. Charles X is a better pick, as he represents Sweden's peak of power. (Not a nicer, but a more succesful king. As a matter of fact, he made the vikings look like amateurs.)

But significance in leadership is not made by success alone. Sweden never recovered from the result of Charles XII handywork. The same can be said of Hitler and others. The taste for battle led to poor decisions. That being said, inside CHarles XII personality was a trait that was about to explode onto the scene on every battlefield across Europe. He spawned the theory of openfield battle which people from the DUke of Marlborough all the way to modern times with Panzer blitzgrieg. Hit hard, don't entrench, surprise your enemy. This was how CHarles XII was able to capture Narva by surprise. He had to do it. Swededn did not have enough troops to attack a fortified Russia...(which history has proven that few do...Chinese anyone???). His signifigance to Sweden was absolute...for good or bad.

 

[Kushan]

No space race, no culture (until renaissance).

Removing the space ship is one of the first things on my to do list. I never play with it in the first place as I find it a cheap way to win. Culture cant really do anything about, remember that culture also defines your borders.

Thanks Ultramyth for hte information. That helps out alot. With Europe going to be crowded as it is, the race to expand into the new world. You'll have to become good at waging a war in Europe as well as fighting for your colonies.

Kushan

 

[Fireb]

Culture cant really do anything about, remember that culture also defines your borders.

You can set the cultural expansion thresholds higher. Borders take a bit longer to expand of course, but the main effect is to make a cultural victory more difficult.