Mehmed Immortal Cookbook

[nishant1911]

turn 110 (grashopa's save)

Spoiler :

tech path- MC (too late for oracle now)-math(shouldn't have researched it that early)-IW-aesthetics-literature-music (working)

acquired from trades- alphabet,polytheism,priesthood,calendar
popped a GE instead of a scientist, rushbuilt the GL in capital.
istanbul

erdine

there is a 60/40 GS/GE in erdine in 8 turns

empire

there is a settler pending to be settled next turn in the rice+fish spot.unlocked heroic epic,gilgamesh settled ur between my empire and its already 19% mine.
bursa has lighthouse+granary,ankara has lighthouse+monument.

plan is to settle a couple more cities for upcoming hanging gardens, and fire up a golden age from music artist to switch to caste system+a religion+pacifism.
could have done a lot better by acquiring IW and math from trades instead of researching myself.
victory targeted is culture. haven't won by culture in months

@bigcivfan
a courthouse in capital! can i ask why?

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

raw espionnage points, or great spy bombing?

Spoiler :

or sloppyness but I guess not

edit: seeing the great people probabilities, it's either option 1 or 3...

 

[kossin]

@Benginal

Spoiler :

Yes, closed borders allows trade routes to go through tiles you know until you reach a trade partner "behind" the AI you have closed borders with.

The only things that block trade routes are:
-war
-barb city
-ship blockading

@nishant

Spoiler :

Why not? Mehmed is Organized so CH is 60H, it will save about 2~3 gpt and will pay greatly for itself within 20~30 turns (plus the EP).

 

[nishant1911]

@nishant

Spoiler :

Why not? Mehmed is Organized so CH is 60H, it will save about 2~3 gpt and will pay greatly for itself within 20~30 turns (plus the EP).

Spoiler :

that's only 1 gpt, surely there must be better things to build in the capital

 

[ABigCivFan]

Hmm, looks like no pre-round strategy discussion.

This is a perfect expansion map for a leader like Meh.

Coastal, seafood rich, cheap Granary/Lighthouse/Courthouse/workers. GLH takes care of commerce. Stone/pyramid boost a specialist heavy strategy. You can easily build a large empire with a tech lead and then seek to dominate the AIs or go for space or culture by settling your own landmass.

@Nishant
counthouse in capital
Kossin pointed out about the long-term savings and EP; also at the time, it was the best build for capital and I built it in 2 turns with some overflow. I intent to grow the capital and settle more land, the savings will only increase.

 

[learner gamer]

Hmm, looks like no pre-round strategy discussion. I haven't had a chance to look again at the save, but what are you guys (who haven't played it out) thinking?

As a means of encouraging such discussion, a few things stand out IMHO:

FWIW, I’m spoilering it just in case. @kossin: could you please let me know if I can unspoiler it? EDIT: Thanks.

(i) Barbs. The save contains only two warriors, so as Grashopa notes, some extra defence might be handy, depending in particular on where you want to send the forthcoming settler.

(ii) On that point, is there room for another city in the vicinity of the pigs / rice, perhaps meaning the capital could get a workboat out and work the improved clams (instead of the pigs)? Perhaps it depends to a degree on how early you revolt into caste system (which is when the capital having access to the pigs and clams would help run more specialists.) FWIW, I’m not in favour of settling the double seafood site we know of at the very southern tip of the island until Edirne’s borders pop again, to enable the new city to work the clams (which building the mids there will help with). Anyone have any views on this?

(iii) Happiness is already an issue, with the capital unhappy. Representation from the mids will help but there aren’t many happiness resources around – even to trade for other resources. One solution is to get a hammam built in the capital...but would a religion (and temples) help?

(iv) With happiness and religion in mind, I’m thinking that Grashopa’s point re: Oracling CoL has real merit. If – and it’s a huge if IMHO – The Oracle can be nabbed at this very late stage, I wonder if it might be possible to (i) nab Confucianism for happiness (ii) pop a GE from the capital (thanks to a forge) and (iii) bulb the GE to build the GL (which might compensate for having to make a late start on literature if teching to build The Oracle). It’s very risky IMHO...but how strong would that round be? With that in mind, I’m wondering why I didn’t give Dhoom’s save a little more weight in the voting to reflect this option.

(v) Settling the rest of the island. TGLH means it will pay to get a few more coastal cities settled. We might also want to get a northerly and / or westerly site or two settled in case Giggles decides to nab them. They’ll mean getting IW is a priority though, potentially as one of many trades (possibly including maths for the hammams and the HG) for metal casting.

(vi) Talking of stone, how late can we realistically leave it to start on the HG and still complete it, given that we have stone?

So much to do, so little time. Any feedback appreciated.

@Dhoomstriker: that was all new to me, so thanks for your great feedback. Teching one half of the duo (sailing & writing) needed to benefit from coastal trade routes, whilst letting the AI tech the other seems IMHO like a very handy way to make the AI’s ability to tech quickly work for you, rather than against you. As I’m beginning to realise, it’s one of the many subtle ways that the game changes as you move up the levels.

 

[kossin]

@learner gamer
Yes, discussion is fine without spoilers.

 

[Grashopa]

Happiness - This isn't remotely a problem, but you may want to build a granary and grow the capital before the happiness from the pyramids comes.

My only worry is getting settlers out the differences in the games this round will likely come down to who got out cities faster and got them running rep scientists first. How soon do you get a library in cap/stone city vs more settlers? ... Don't let Gilgamesh steal any city sites because that will mean about 30 beakers.

 

[enKage]

My turn 110

Spoiler :

I decided not to chop plain forest near Edrine and I still was able to build Pyramids.
I switched to Slavery rather early, to whip axeman needed to stop barbarian archers. Having two axes I located them near planned cities and noticed Gilgamesh already visited my island.

Setlled 2 more cities - inland one and coastal jungle - just fogbusting city. Another city - desert one - will come in one turn.

Having two axes I recruited third one, joined buddha block (Mongolia, Japan, HRE) and broke open borders with Sumer, then attacked one of his cities - 3 axes vs 2 archers, 1 axe lost, city taken in turn 110.
Now producing 2-3 more axes to take the second gilgamesh' cities on MY island (or Swords).
No new workers as I have all my work tiles improved, started to make road connection for faster movement

Wonders
I managed to finish Mids, then after Metal Casting chopped Colossus.

Techs
Maths for chopping, Esthetics for trading value, now heading currency to get additional trade route, some nice techs including IronWorking from trade

When I converted to Buddism, Kublai came with nice offer giving me Alphabet for MetalCasting (Collosus already was built)
Toku didn't want to trade as usual, so I went to Charlemagne and get 3 nice techs (this guy wanted to give me Hunting instead of Iron Working -_-)

Buildings:
Forge in Stambul
Library in Ancara with I scentist working

Summarry
6 cities (1 exSumerian)
War with Gilgamesh
3 wonders, Oracle and Hanging Gardens built by other civs
I'm the only one with esthetics

Goal
Take 2nd Gilgamesh city and sue for peace with Construction as tribute

Screenshots:
Empire:

Trade with ChM

Main Cities

 

[drlake]

I do like the combo of GLH and Mehmed's leader traits. I could get used to coastal starts with Organized leaders...

I'll go with the rex option, I was just curious to see what everyone thought before I played it out.

 

[drlake]

To turn 110:

Spoiler :

Not a particularly good round, IMO. I had to quickly pop out some Axes to deal with barbs, which really slowed expansion. Before I could even get a scout to the NW corner, Giggles had colonized our little island. I was trying to get the Rice location up that way, but I had a hole in my barbarian coverage and one nailed the settler I had heading up that way. I could have reloaded, but there are enough submissions that I wasn't worrying about trying to optimize mine.

Anyway, the scouting WB made it a long way, I finished the Mids, started the Colossus (I assume that was why MC was in progress, and figured I may as well go for it), and built three more cities with two settlers on the way (1 for a central blocking city, and one for the NE Rice/Fish location. That'll give us 7 cities, with maybe room for 1 more in the north center if we want to race giggles for it. I don't think any of the other possible locations are really worth settling.

Moving forward, I'd probably plan for war with giggles to clear the continent for us. We've got a solid tech lead, Iron, and are 5 turns to construction at a sustainable rate (could do it faster if we wanted). 10 turns from a Great Merchant also gives us a nice potential cash source, if we send a trade mission to the mainland. Need to build a galley for that, though.

Screenies:

 

[drlake]

@ABigCivFan

It looks to me like you played forward from a save other than Grashopa's, since you have TGW in your game. In the cookbook, we're all playing forward from a common save each round.

 

[kossin]

@ABigCivFan

It looks to me like you played forward from a save other than Grashopa's, since you have TGW in your game. In the cookbook, we're all playing forward from a common save each round.

No worries, I'll count it as a shadow. I think it's very informative to have comparative saves from the same date but from different starting points.

 

[drlake]

No worries, I'll count it as a shadow. I think it's very informative to have comparative saves from the same date but from different starting points.

That's fine, I thought about doing a shadow with Obsolete's save since I liked that the best. I just thought it was worth noting that it didn't appear to be off the same save.

 

[Grashopa]

My 2nd round

Spoiler :

Capital went 2 settlers 3 pop forge whip and I chopped out the colossus by chopping forests that were outside the BFC at +16 hammers per. I settled to block my island and closed borders with Gilgamesh. You'll notice also that after MC I went 0% and stayed there a bit too long. I was waiting for some AI to tech something I could trade for, but its slow going. Perhaps we can bulb CS with our GM... EDIT - bulbing the GM would be stupid

An academy would have been quite wonderful here, but needing to get the 2 blocking settlers out we didn't get a library in the capital early enough for a GS chance.

So here we are. Still waiting for someone else to get currency so we can trade for it. MoM should be ours so the GA from music will be useful, we can probably try for a triple golden age with a lib-nat Taj build. ( We are trading stone for marble with Pericles )

EDIT - forgot to mention Japan is gearing up for war... Hes cautious with Gilgamesh but unfortunately has open borders so we could be the target though Pericles is his worst enemy.

 

[Benginal]

@ Grashopa

Spoiler :

Nice Save. When did you close borders with Giggles? Almost everyone seems to have been unable to keep him from settling on our island. Did you happen to see him send a galley over our way or did you just preempt him from doing so? I'm curious why he still didn't try to send a settler in the gap between your two cities on the west coast.

 

[Grashopa]

Benginal

Spoiler :

He sent out two galleys, and I saw them just as they entered my borders so I closed up. I'm not sure the AI is able to realize he could land the settler then go overland.

 

[Sleepless]

Sort of spoiler regarding grashopa's save.

Spoiler :

Well I did play on on my own save and managed a religious victory in 1765. Guess we won't see to many of those. Slight advantage in that I had 2 dead AI and 2 vassals and wanted a quick finish.

But both games even playing on from Grashopa's save I couldn't get to the site in the top. So kudos to everbody who did manage to settle there.

 

[vranasm]

my t110

Spoiler :

well it was peaceful round, with me getting Woods 3 warrior and mids, some cities, economy is sound, future is bright except for one minor thing that I am almost sure everyone will really hate... and that's the damn gilgamesh city on OUR continent!

if i were in a mood for a little cheat with reload I would kill his city the turn he settled because he did one minor thing badly (leving the city with archer for 1 turn) in vicinity of my warrior.
i decided other wise and didnt reload, didnt kill the city, went along and finished the round (even if first reaction was "WTH, I hate this game, going to uninstall it imedietaly and go kill a kitten!"

I have plans for 1 city near rice and plains NE from future production city (stone,iron,pigs and wheat spot)
I am not sure with settling the middle land, doesnt seem lucrative right now.
I didnt forgot that little city north there...but gilg is protective and I think I will just live with it until later age.

Economy was really great with GLH and lately mids (I waited with slavery until rep to sync it).

screens

Spoiler :

well that's it.
Btw great fun here (except for that %#%#@$!$!%! Gilgamesh, who is creative, which is another %$@$@!!%!@)

edit:
forgot to add tech trade screen

Spoiler :

 

[learner gamer]

2nd round (T110) attempt:

Spoiler :

After much deliberation, I decided to heed Grashopa’s advice on two fronts: (i) ignore the Hanging Gardens in favour of The Colossus and (ii) settle cities to block Giggles and maximise beakers from TGLH. Thanks for the feedback Grashopa.

With this in mind, tech over the next 40 turns went metal casting > alphabet > currency > aesthetics > literature. I also traded for IW, maths, polytheism, hunting, archery and calendar along the way. Currently 1 turn from literature and have a monopoly on aesthetics and currency. Went currency after alphabet to boost commerce and because we didn’t have marble. Also thought hard about getting CoL after currency (instead of aesthetics > literature) to use GM to bulb civil service; instead, I ended up settling the GM to get the beaker boost from representation. Decided to head to literature eventually since Confucianism had been founded, aesthetics can be good trade bait and I wanted both epics up ASAP. Teching about 111BPT (at 80% slider, 3 GPT surplus). Oh, and Peri will trade metal casting for construction and a little gold if wanted.

First priority was to settle the west / north west to block off Giggles (which was aided by closing borders when I saw his galley - he obviously didn't fancy walking his settler between Ankara and Bursa), so capital went settler > axe > settler. It was just as well I produced that axe because there was more than the odd barb seen this turnset – they spawned literally the turn after I finished the axe. Still, the barbs meant we have a 10XP unit. Edirne meanwhile finished the mids > worker > WB (for capital) > warrior (for garrison and to grow onto a mine) > settler and has one turn left on a settler destined for the NE sugar / rice / fish site (for which a road is being built), having also built a settler and WB for the southern tip of the island in the interim.

After building its second settler, capital went granary (to help recover after the whip) > library (whipped) > forge (whipped) > The Colossus (chopped) and is now running three representation boosted specialists (2 scientists and an engineer) whilst building the UB. Ankara and Bursa have a granary, lighthouse and monument in each. Hinduism has also spread to Konya.

EDIT: One last, very important thing I forgot to mention above. KK is currently WHEOOHRN – and went into this mode before I refused to gift him metal casting. Since he was annoyed with Lincoln at the time (and remains so), my guess is Lincoln's his target...but can the AI change a DoW target based on my refusal to gift him a tech, after he’s gone into WHEOOHRN?

All feedback is very welcome. In particular, I’d really appreciate feedback on the following:

(a) Was I right to ignore CoL and an early caste system, in favour of sticking with slavery at this point to whip in quick granaries and lighthouses?

(b) Was it right to settle the GM here given that we’re in representation? Or was there a case for bulbing civil service, or even sending them on a trade mission to nab some gold which could fund deficit research?

(c) @Grashopa: You mentioned before that GEs wouldn’t help as much here as would GMs...out of curio, what was it that led you to that conclusion? Is it the position of the UU on the tech tree and / or the ability of GMs to produce a trade mission to allow deficit research? Or is there something else you noticed? To put it another way, when would going for GEs rather than GMs be most beneficial? Thanks again for all your advice.

To learn a little more, I might now see if I can squeeze in another playthrough, this time to see what difference going for the HG would’ve made. Thanks for all your help to date everyone.