Meth01: Culture, with no Wonders

[MeteorPunch]

Another thing. Get Mecca off Great Prophet production - the only people we want are Great Artists.

 

[Methos]

Another thing. Get Mecca off Great Prophet production - the only people we want are Great Artists.

Good point. The shrine would definitely be nice but great artist are probably a lot more important with our variant. I also think we should stockpile all great artist. This way as we start getting closer to 50k we will know exactly where the great works are needed. If we use them now we may do it in a city that later becomes a cultural behometh.

I also agree with the lowering science rate, but only if necessary. I think we need to spam settlers like crazy to grab up land. The additional cities will cost maintainance so lower science rate when neccesary. Once we get our landmass settled we can always up science again.

We also need to figure exactly when we are going to stop researching. What techs do we feel are neccessary for the variant?

With our current city choices I agree with MP on the three culture cities. They may not be the best but I'm beginning to think we shouldn't wait any longer before making our decision. The other AI's are probably way ahead of us in research so we need to get a quick start on attaining a cultural victory.

Great job MP. Looks good! I'll check the save later as I'm curious how our new cities are looking.

Roster:
Methos- On Deck
Soul Warrior
Conroe
MeteorPunch- Just Played
ChrTh- Up

She's yours ChrTh.

 

[ChrTh]

I see it, but I might not get to it until tomorrow night, so Methos we can swap if you want.

 

[Conroe]

Forgot to say, I'm willing to run our science into the ground, even like 10% total so that we can have 9 cities with temples ASAP. We have many good cultural building techs available now, so we should start building and not worry about tech.

My vote for 3 culture cities: Damascus, Medina, and Bagdad. The sites must have good production.

This is fine with me, as well.

switch to Organized Religion to build missionaries (spread our state religion, Buddhism).
Great Prophet is born in Mecca! I have not moved him, but he is fortified.

If Buddhism is our state religion, do we want to think about building the Buddhist shrine? We currently have a Jewish shrine. Before the last 2 cities, Mecca and Damascus were Jewish while Mecca and Medina were Buddhist. Not sure what has spread to the new cities, if any. I'm also a big fan of the Super Priest. Out of curiousity, would the Prophet give us a good tech? Probably not.

I'd probably vote to build the shrine and spread both religions. That would mean double the temples and double the cathedrals. The only caveat would be Medina. It will be tough to get a 4th religion into that city.

 

[ChrTh]

Some questions before I start:

Great Prophet would research Monarchy; not worth it. However, I'm wondering if we can build the Christian Shrine in Medina? I'm trying to remember if that's allowed in the variant rules. While it won't give us the coinage boost right away, it will give us culture (which Medina is seriously lacking in).

For the settler, I see two possibilities: East Coast by the Marble, or South Coast by the horses and clams. Any preferences? Marble will help with the Sistine Chapel, which would be good to build in Mecca (would save 16 turns)...however, it'll take longer to get the Marble online.

Saxon might be takable now (pop is 2) ... do I send our troops in? I'm leaning towards it.

We'll also want to think about switching to Caste System at some point in the near future for the Unlimited Artists.

 

[Methos]

The shrine is allowed.

Edit: Pick whatever city site you feel is best. I can't find the dotmap and my internet connection is lagging. I think I need to restart the computer.

 

[ChrTh]

Turn 0 -- 800 AD

I decide not to assault Saxon yet. Definitely once we get Macemen (I'm going to research Machinery next).

Turn 1 -- 820 AD

Venerable Bede compiles his list of the most cultured Civs in the world ... AND WE'RE #1!!!!!! That bodes well!

Shrine it is. I build ChristianTh shrine in Medina. We're at even finance.

Turn 2 -- 840 AD

Mecca finishes Buddhist Missionary, starts Christian Missionary (sending BM to Najran).
Medina Settler

Turn 3 -- 860 AD

Medina: Settler > Forge. I decide Horses and Clams are a better bet than Marble.
Damascus Forge

Turn 4 -- 880 AD

Barb Archers from Saxon attack the fortified Axemen, who win.

Mecca: ChrThian Missionary > Aqueduct (so we can build Forge)
Damascus: Forge > Buddhist Monastery

Great Lighthouse BIFAL

I spread Christianity to Damascus via CM

I spread Buddhism to Najran via BM

Turn 5 -- 900 AD

Music comes in. Start Machinery--scratch that. Drama for the Theatres.

Homer is born in Mecca! I decide to hold on to him.

Turn 6 -- 920 AD

Mecca Aqueduct (I let it grow for a turn before whipping)

I lower Science to 70% to run a surplus for a while.

Turn 7 -- 940 AD

Damascus: Buddhist Monastery > Aqueduct (already unhealthy at size 5)

Mecca: Aqueduct > Christian Temple (will finish in 1 turn due to whip leftovers, it'll allow Mecca to grow more since it now has the health)

Turn 8 -- 960 AD

Mecca: CT > Forge. Mecca is happy and heathy and can grow one more time! (and a second time once the
unhappiness evaporates in 18 turns)

I also fire the Priest in Mecca so I can get extra hammers.

Kufah is built. Start Workboat for the Clams. I change my mind in Mecca and interpose a Buddhist Missionary
before the Forge so that it can convert Kufah for quicker building and cultural expansion (for the horses, if the Najran expansion doesn't get it)

Science down to 60%

Baghdad expands. Worker starts building Camp on Deer (+1 health! )

Turn 9 -- 980 AD



Turn 10 -- 1000 AD

TWO Barb Archers attack our Fortified Axeman outside of Saxon. He survives, but takes a lot of damage.

There's only one archer in Saxon now. I move the other nearby Axemen next to it for the next player.


WHAT I RECOMMEND: Promote the nearby Axeman to City Raider II and attack Saxon. Worst-case
scenario we lose one Axeman but the wounded one mops up (I hope). The AI got greedy. This might be our best chance to take Saxon.

The Buddhist Missionary is on his way to Kufah.

Ok, end of turns. The tide is definitely turning. Keep expanding, and keep building cultural buildings!

Here's our Southern land:



Here's the Save:
View attachment 110467

 

[Methos]

Got it

Roster:
Methos- Up
Soul Warrior- On Deck
Conroe
MeteorPunch
ChrTh- Just Played

 

[Conroe]

Wow! Good set of turns, CT. The fine work that you and MP have done are making me feel a lot better about where we stand in this game. If I can count right, we have 6 cities, now?

Saxon is down to 1 archer? I definitely agree, send in the troops!

The Buddhist Missionary is on his way to Kufah.

I guess I don't really understand why we are spreading Buddhism. We have Jewish and Catholic shrines. Shouldn't we be concentrating on these two religions until they are in all of our cities? I say this because a religion gets tougher to spread depending on the number of religion already in a city.

 

[ChrTh]

I guess I don't really understand why we are spreading Buddhism. We have Jewish and Catholic shrines. Shouldn't we be concentrating on these two religions until they are in all of our cities? I say this because a religion gets tougher to spread depending on the number of religion already in a city.

Buddhism is our state religion, and we are organized. Every city with Buddhism gets 25% build bonus. Ergo, Buddhism gets spread first. Also, the Christian and Jewish shrine help spread Christianity and Judaism without missionaries, therefore, it makes less sense to build those missionaries first because it can spread easier without them.

I was originally not going to put the Christian missionary in Damascus; however, I felt getting the various temples earlier in Damascus was important enough to do it.

 

[Methos]

I guess I don't really understand why we are spreading Buddhism. We have Jewish and Catholic shrines. Shouldn't we be concentrating on these two religions until they are in all of our cities? I say this because a religion gets tougher to spread depending on the number of religion already in a city.

I agree. Since we have the shrines we might as well spread those religions first, that way we can make some gold off it. We still need to spread Buddhism too as we'll want to use the cultural improvements for that religion. I just feel (as Conroe does) that priority would be ones we can make money off of.

Edit: Cross-posted with ChrTh. Forgot that Buddhism was our state religion. If thats the case than why do we have shrines for our non-state religion rather than Buddhism? The 25% bonus is probably worth more than the gold. Hmm, in truth I'd try and spread all. Man I'm so confused!?!

I'll reread everything either tonight or tomorrow before I play. Today is Emily's [my wife] birthday so I'm unsure how much free time I'll have tonight. If not tonight I'll play first thing tomorrow morning.

Please post any suggestions or comments.

 

[ChrTh]

I agree. Since we have the shrines we might as well spread those religions first, that way we can make some gold off it. We still need to spread Buddhism too as we'll want to use the cultural improvements for that religion. I just feel (as Conroe does) that priority would be ones we can make money off of.

See my response above

EDIT: We built the Christian Shrine because it could be built in Medina and contribute to culture. I don't recall the reasoning for the Jewish shrine, but it makes sense to me as follows:

Each religion has an X chance of spreading to a neighboring city. I believe State Religions spread easier, so we'll give them an additional Y chance. I know Shrines give a better chance, we'll call it Z.
As it currently stands:
Budd: X+Y
Jud: X+Z
Chris: X+Z
Hind: X

If we built the Buddhist shrine:
Budd: X+Y+Z
Jud: X
Chris: X+Z
Hind: X

So while Buddhism would spread faster, you're hurting the spread of another religion. And we need all religions spread (it's cheaper, of course, to let it spread naturally than to build missionaries).

Finally, we're going to be getting a couple more great prophets eventually. The Buddhist and Hindu shrines will be built at some point.

 

[Conroe]

Ahhh, I see! Thanks for clearing that up for me. I knew there had to be a reason, but I just couldn't see it past the tip of my nose.

Each religion has an X chance of spreading to a neighboring city. I believe State Religions spread easier, so we'll give them an additional Y chance. I know Shrines give a better chance, we'll call it Z.
As it currently stands:
Budd: X+Y
Jud: X+Z
Chris: X+Z
Hind: X

I knew about the "X" and "Z" factors, but I never knew the "Y" factor existed. Probably because I would build the shrine for my state religion. Without the "Y" factor being explained, my first impulse would have been to change the state religion. We are spiritual, after all.

Silly me, I thought I had figured out all of this new religion stuff. Thanks for teaching this old dog something new!

@Methos: Oh, and, to Emily!

 

[Methos]

@Conroe: Emily asked me to thank your for the congrats. Thanks from me too.

Turn 160 (1000 AD)
Methos: The archer north of Baghdad (as a lookout) has his view overlapping the cities. I move the archer further north to push the fog back more.
Methos: I find it hilarious that there's still a goody hut in 1000 AD.

Turn 161 (1010 AD)
Axeman promoted: City Raider I
Axeman promoted: City Raider II
Medina grows: 5

Turn 162 (1020 AD)
Methos: A barb archer appears to the far northwest.
Tech learned: Drama
Baghdad grows: 4

Turn 163 (1030 AD)
Research begun: Sailing
Najran's borders expand
Axeman defeats (3.80/5): Barbarian Archer

Turn 164 (1040 AD)
Buddhism has spread: Kufah
Mecca finishes: Forge
Damascus grows: 6

Turn 165 (1050 AD)
Mecca begins: Library
Mecca begins: Jewish Missionary
Methos: Baghdad is shy three religions and Damascus is shy only 1. I set Mecca to start popping out missionaries so we can get our culture three influenced by all four of our religions.
Tech learned: Sailing
Damascus finishes: Aqueduct
Baghdad finishes: Forge
Kufah grows: 2

Turn 166 (1060 AD)
Research begun: Currency
Damascus begins: Buddhist Temple
Baghdad begins: Buddhist Temple
Baghdad begins: Granary
Baghdad begins: Buddhist Temple
Methos: I feel we need the workboat in Kufah quickly so I do a little whipping.
Mecca finishes: Jewish Missionary
Kufah finishes: Work Boat
Axeman defeats (3.70/5): Barbarian Archer

Turn 167 (1070 AD)
Mecca begins: Christian Missionary
Kufah begins: Lighthouse
Methos: Looks like the barb city got nervous, as they attacked one of our axemen. I'm beginning to wonder if waiting is a bad idea. I may decide to give her a go.
Axeman defeats (0.80/5): Barbarian Swordsman

Turn 168 (1080 AD)
Axeman promoted: Combat II
Methos: Apparently I wasn't paying close enough attention. That "archer" I saw in the northwest, was in fact a swordsman. Oh well, we still whipped him.
Judaism has spread: Baghdad
Methos: I decide to go for it at Saxon. Probably a bad mistake but we'll see.
Axeman loses to: Barbarian Archer (1.80/3)
Axeman defeats (3.95/5): Barbarian Archer
Captured Saxon (Barbarian)
Methos: We took Saxon! Only lost one axemen doing it. Obviously I capture it.
Mecca finishes: Christian Missionary
Damascus finishes: Buddhist Temple
Baghdad grows: 5

Turn 169 (1090 AD)
Mecca begins: Hindu Missionary
Damascus begins: Christian Temple

Turn 170 (1100 AD)
Christianity has spread: Baghdad

Notes:
-Religion wise we are still short on religious influence…
Baghdad: Hindu
Damascus: Hindu
Medina: Judaism
-A barb archer has shown himself in the north (it is an archer this time). He is currently adjacent to our archer but we also have an axemen who if moved during this turn will also be adjacent to the barb.
-I have been using Mecca as a missionary factory to get our culture three fully influenced. Our culture three have been building temples (they're the cheapest, thereby the quickest) to start their culture growing. When I first picked up the game I looked and our culture three were earning an amazing 1, 4, and 7 cpt. Lol!
-I noticed we don’t have libraries or courthouses? Both our very important and need to be built soon. We’re losing a lot of gain due to us not having them. Note that I noticed this on my first turn and didn’t build any myself.
-We need to get our culture three up to max size and good production ASAP. They need to start getting in the full culture gear.
-Narjan grows next turn. I’m thinking we may want to whip that forge after growth. Another thing on Narjan is that we may want to chop those forests after all (or at least one of them). If we chop the one on the right we can spread irrigation to all the plains tiles. This will keep us with growth plus gain us a lot of hammers.

Here's the 1100 AD save.

Roster:
Methos- Just Played
Soul Warrior- Up
Conroe- On Deck
MeteorPunch
ChrTh

 

[ChrTh]

I noticed we don’t have libraries or courthouses? Both our very important and need to be built soon

I disagree. Since we don't need to focus on research extensively, we're better off building the cheaper Monasteries first, as they provide the same amount of culture as libraries. Our primary focus, however, should be on building Temples/Cathedrals. We need two more cities to be able to build a Cathedral in each of the 3 cultural cities, so our focus should be as follows. Courthouses aren't as important because the shrines should provide enough income to offset the maintenance (providing you spread all 4 religions to every city).

To summarize:
It's time for a Settler push. Let's get to 9 quickly, and then fill up the rest of the continent.
Temples everywhere!
Cathedrals in the big 3
Then courthouses in the outlying cities and libraries in the big 3.

EDIT: I forgot we had Drama as well. Theatres are a higher priority than libraries in my opinion, especially in the big 3.

Also, Hanging Gardens in Mecca is probably a good idea as that will get us a better chance at having a Great Artist.

ANOTHER EDIT: Hinduism should be our last concern for temples/cathedrals. Their cathedral requires Marble to build quicker, which we don't have yet (iirc there's some on the east coast). Of course, we do have copper and stone, right?

 

[soul_warrior]

got it. play soon.

 

[soul_warrior]

Turn 170 (1100 AD)
Mecca finishes: Hindu Missionary
Baghdad finishes: Buddhist Temple
Najran grows: 3
Axeman defeats (4.35/5): Barbarian Archer

Turn 171 (1110 AD)
Mecca begins: The Hanging Gardens
Baghdad begins: Theatre
Saxon begins: Archer
Medina finishes: Forge
Kufah grows: 2

Turn 172 (1120 AD)
Medina begins: Theatre
Hinduism has spread: Baghdad
Damascus's borders expand
Damascus finishes: Christian Temple

Turn 173 (1130 AD)
Damascus begins: Swordsman
Mecca grows: 10
Baghdad finishes: Theatre
Kufah's borders expand

Turn 174 (1140 AD)
Baghdad begins: Jewish Monastery
Damascus grows: 7

Turn 175 (1150 AD)
Tech learned: Currency
Medina grows: 6
Damascus finishes: Swordsman

Turn 176 (1160 AD)
Research begun: Philosophy
Damascus begins: Settler

Turn 177 (1170 AD)
Mecca finishes: The Hanging Gardens
Baghdad finishes: Jewish Monastery
Najran finishes: Forge
Kufah grows: 4
Saxon finishes: Archer

Turn 178 (1180 AD)
Mecca begins: Theatre
Baghdad begins: Christian Temple
Najran begins: Settler
Saxon begins: Lighthouse
Axeman defeats (4.30/5): Barbarian Swordsman
Medina finishes: Theatre
Baghdad finishes: Christian Temple

Turn 179 (1190 AD)
Medina begins: Hindu Temple
Baghdad begins: Jewish Temple

barb galley still lurking in our east.
barb sword is idead, but came from the North West. an axe is in the area, i suggest we explore.

phil (and that religion it gives) due in 13 or so.

all in all a builder set.

i have also started a pair of settlers, as we need more cities.

Ohh, and BTW, we are now over 1.000.000 souls

 

[Conroe]

It looks like I'm up. I'll play it sometime later today.

 

[Conroe]

Situation Assessment: Wow! What a difference 40 turns makes. We are up to 7 cities, with only 2 cities remaining to be built. We have identified our 3 culture cities: Medina, Damascus, and Baghdad. And we have a plan to build their culture; initially through cultural and religous buildings.

As for the remaining 2 cities, there are 2 Settlers currently in the build queue. The one at Damascus will be done in 3 turns, while the one in Najran will not be done for 13 turns.

We have founded 4 religions. Buddhism is spread fairly well; only the former barb city of Saxon remains. We still need to do some work on the remaining 3 religions, though.

You can note from the above screenshot that we are obviously running the Organized Religion civic. A lot of the cultural buildings have been built and quite a few remain. I was going to compile a list of the remaining builds, for the benefit of the lurkers. That idea got scrapped as soon as I discovered how much work that would entail. I should note that SW has apparently given higher priority to the higher culture producing buildings (i.e. a +3cpt theater before a +1cpt temple). Good thinking, Soul Warrior!

Militarily, we are still weak. We have 8 Archers, 6 Axeman, and a lone Swordsman. The good news is that we probably don't need much of a military for the foreseeable future. We are on a continent by ourselves. We still have not met any other civ. The only barb in sight is a lone and empty galley. Much of the fog has been pushed back, either by troops or by expansion. There is some fog on the southern peninsula and a patch or two in the northern tundra.

We are currently researching Philosophy, which is due in 12 turns. This will enable the Pacifism civic, which we may want to consider once our building spree is complete. Although Free Religion, enabled by researching Liberalism, may be a better civic choice for us. However, Philosopy is a prerequisite for Liberalism. Taoism, BTW, has already been founded.

We have 94 gold in the treasury and are draining it at -3gpt. We are at 60% on the research slider and the culture slider is turned off. I'm not real happy with those numbers, but I don't think there is anything that can be done about it at the moment.

The only truly weak point that I can see is a lack of Workers. We have only 4 workers. Unfortunately, there is probably not much I am going to be able to do about it. The building of temples and spreading the religions will most likely have to take precedence.

Overall, I would have to say that we are in good shape!

Objectives: Found the 8th city and press forward with the building construction efforts started by those before me.

Turn 0 - 1190AD I do a little MM at Najran to shave a turn off of the Settler's training. I also preempt the Lighthouse build in Kufah for a Buddhist Temple.

Mecca is 1 turn away from constructing a Theatre. I may be short sighted here, but I really do not see the benefit, as Mecca is not one of our three cultural cities. I put the Theatre on hold and queue a Jewish Missionary instead.

The side effect of all of this is that I somehow managed to shave a turn off the Philosophy research. I have no idea how I did it, but it is now due in 11 turns.

Turn 1 - 1200AD: Uneventful really. I move some of our fog busters around in an attempt to get some better coverage. Not sure yet, but I may be making things worse ...

IBT: Yeppers, a barb Axeman steps out of the icy fog.

Turn 2 - 1210AD:

IBT: The barb Axeman attacks our Woodsman I Axeman while he was atop a forested hill. :shakehead Our axe takes a couple of blows, but does carry the day. BTW, that barb Galley is still hanging around off our eastern coast.

Turn 3 - 1220AD: The Jewish Missionary in Mecca is complete and I queue up a Christian Missionary. At Damascus, we have trained the 8th Settler. Work begins on the Theatre, next. A Jewish Temple is constructed in Baghdad (an event I find ironic), so I begin constructing a Christian Monastery.

I'm not really sure of the best place to put our newest Settler. We don't really have any top notch sites available. In the end, I send him towards the marble. There are a lot of plains tiles in that area, that when farmed should allow this city to quickly build temples.

Turn 4 - 1230AD: Our missionary spreads Judaism to Medina. It now has all 4 religions. Baghdad also has all 4 religions. Damascus, however, is still shy Hinduism. It looks like I started the wrong missionary last turn.

IBT: Mo Tzu (a Great Prophet) is born in Mecca. The Colossus is built in a far away land.

Turn 5 - 1240AD: Mecca completes the Christian Missionary and begins on a Hindu Missionary for Damascus. Medina completes the Hindu Temple and begins work on a Jewish Monastery. Meanwhile, Damascus has completed its Theatre and also begins work on a Jewish Monastery.

Ok, we have a Great Prophet. The technology that he will give us is Monarchy. I also take a look at our Great Artist; he will also give us Monarchy. I really don't think Monarchy is worth a GL. I also don't think a Great Prophet is worth saving like the Great Artist. I am really fond of the Super Priest. His 5 gold, plus 2 hammers too boot, will turn us cash flow positive. I decide to build the Buddhist Shrine, instead. It will give us 6 gold, and eventually 9 gold. After building the shrine, we are at +2gpt.

Basra is founded on the eastern coast. City maintenance brings our cash flow back down to -4gpt. As Basra has no religions, yet, the city begins work on a lighthouse. After founding the city, I realize that this was not the best site. The only way to get irrigation to 2 of the city's plains tiles is to irrigate the marble. A site south of the marble would have been much, much better! Sorry about this, folks. This really irritates me when I make such a bad mistake.

I also notice that Mecca has an angry citizen. I switch the Hindu Missionary over to a Hindu Temple. I'll put a couple of hammers into it before pulling out the .

Turn 6 - 1250AD: I crack the whip in Mecca for that temple. Our angry citizen will be gone next turn when the temple is built. I slow down Mecca's growth rate so that it does not grow before the whip unhappiness wears off.

Anyone remember that barb Warrior guarding the goody hut on the southern peninsula? I had forgotten all about it, but it is still there.

Fortunately, we have ample troops on hand for a lone barb Warrior.

 

[Conroe]

Turn 7 - 1260AD: Mecca completes the Hindu Temple with enough overflow for the Hindu Missionary next turn. The Christian Monastery is complete in Baghdad, and work begins on a Hindu Monastery.

The Buddhist Temple is complete at Kufa. And, with exemplary timing, the Christian Missionary also arrives in Kufah. Work can immediately begin on a Christian Temple. The Lighthouse that was preempted earlier is still sitting in the build queue with 3 turns remaining.

Meanwhile, on the southern peninsula, our Axeman takes a pretty good licking from that barb Warrior. And the contents of that goody hut? A Warrior! Yeah, we needed a Warrior. Gold would have been nice, a tech even better. I guess I should be grateful that we didn't get a map!

Turn 8 - 1270AD: Mecca completes the Hindu Missionary and starts another Christian Missionary. Damascus completes the Jewish Monastery and begins the Christian Monastery.

The Hindu Missionary is successful in spreading Hinduism to Damascus. At this point, Mecca and all three cultural cities have all of our religions. The other cities still have a lot more work, though.

IBT: The Great Library and the Chichen Itza are both built in far away lands. Our AI opponents are also recipients of a slew of great leaders.

Turn 9 - 1280AD: Mecca completes another Christian Missionary. I start on a Jewish Missionary this time.

IBT: We are greeted by George Washington! I'm not sure which direction he came from, though. I can find no ships near any of our coasts.

We also have a new barb city! Using only a single tile of fog, a new barb city is founded! Its a shame our Settler is due in 2 turns. This could have been our 9th city.

Turn 10 - 1290AD: Our missionary spreads Christianity to Najran. It now has 2 religions.

The world as we know it:

And here is how we stand on spreading our religions:

The culture construction is going well in Damascus and Baghdad. Medina, however, is starting to fall behind in its building efforts. Their cpt, though, is a quarter that of Mecca's.

I've been using Mecca as a missionary factory. It can produce one in 2 turns, or every turn with overflow. The city is currently at max happiness. There are 6 turns left on the whip unhappiness, yet it will grow in 4 turns. After the whip wears off, it can safely grow to size 12.

The research on Philosophy will be done next turn. I would suggest we head towards Education and Liberalism. The Universities produce +3cpt and the Free Speech civic doubles the cpt in each city. GW has quite a few techs that we don't have, but we are up Drama on him. Since it was the last turn, I did not think it was appropriate to do any deals.

As for that barb city, a Swordsman is only 4 turns away. He has no experience and no promotions, though. A Combat I Axeman is also available, but he needs another 3 turns to heal from that earlier Warrior attack.