Meth01: Culture, with no Wonders

Methos said:
Any suggestions, opinions, pro's/con's of my ideas, ;)
Well, I could only find one "X", but I'm sure the locations that you marked are just fine. I agree with you on the farming and making Damascus a production city. Once Damascus is online for military production, I think we should put either Mecca or Medina (maybe both?) on settler production.

:newyear:
 
Methos said:
That's odd. I was just going back over my post and noticed the image of the barb city wasn't showing. I could swear it was when I originally posted it!?!
Twas no big deal. I just browsed the uploads folder to have a look at it.

The location of the barb city is not a bad site. Capturing the city would require us to rework MP's dot map. IIRC a size 1 barb city will auto-raze, so we will have to leave it alone if we really want to keep it.
 
Turn 120 (125 AD)
Mecca finishes: Axeman
Damascus grows: 3

Turn 121 (150 AD)
Mecca begins: Jewish Monastery
Medina grows: 5

Turn 122 (175 AD)

Turn 123 (200 AD)
Mahavira (Great Prophet) born in Mecca

Turn 124 (225 AD)
Mecca finishes: The Temple of Solomon
Warrior loses to: Barbarian Warrior (1.70/2) barbs in the south
Archer loses to: Barbarian Swordsman (3.48/6) and we also lose our stone quarry.

Turn 125 (250 AD)
Mecca finishes: Jewish Monastery
Damascus grows: 4

Turn 126 (275 AD)
Mecca begins: Axeman

Turn 127 (300 AD)
Axeman promoted: Combat I
Axeman promoted: Shock
Axeman defeats (5.00/5): Barbarian Swordsman
Tech learned: Metal Casting
Medina finishes: Axeman

Turn 128 (325 AD)
Research begun: Philosophy
Medina begins: Settler

Turn 129 (350 AD)
nada here.

basically - not a verygood set.
loads of excitement, but no way to vent it. that archer scout didnt do his job.
started a new settler.
philo (and taoism) due in 16? but we can shave a couple of turns off by losing money.
 
I've been keeping up with this thread because I found it interesting and would like to hopefully learn a thing or two in the cultural victory game. If you don't mind, I would like to jump in occassional to help analyze the situation and maybe offer a few comments and such. I'll happily lurk silently though if you dont want any outsiders jumping in. :scan:


-I would have to agree with everyone: your starting continent is less than desirable. :confused: Looking at the save game, I can only see maybe one or two viable places for a new pontential city. The coasts directly south of Damascus provide decent commerce and food (with a lighthouse) but a bit lacking in production though. The clams (if you choose to settle a bit further down south) would provide the necessary health for Mecca to grow. The area southeast of Damascus (where the marble resource is located) could be an excellent production powerhouse provided that you use irrigation from the nearby river to farm all the plain tiles.

-Given the necessary land developments, workers should probably be next on the build quarry. Those sheep to the north look tasty. :D

-What's the long term cultural growth strategy? At what time do you guys plan to "take off" in cultural growth, so to speak? Mecca is definitely doing well but your other two cities are lagging behind.

-Great choice with the tech, ChrTr!
 
@temmage: Of course you're welcome to post comments! We can always use suggestions/observations/etc.

-Given the necessary land developments, workers should probably be next on the build quarry. Those sheep to the north look tasty. :D

Unfortunately these barbarians just won't let us expand. There's so much fog out there that we're forced to deal with barbs more than we can work on expanding. I'm hoping the lookout points will push the fog back enough to stall the barbs.

-What's the long term cultural growth strategy? At what time do you guys plan to "take off" in cultural growth, so to speak? Mecca is definitely doing well but your other two cities are lagging behind.

Recall the variant? The three culture cities cannot have any wonders in them, and we built the Oracle in Mecca. So Mecca cannot be one of the culture cities. To be honest I don't believe we've yet decided what any of the three cities will be.

-Great choice with the tech, ChrTr!

Yes, that was an excellent idea! One of the very few times using a great person for a tech is obviously worth it. :thumbsup:
 
Got it. I won't be able to play it until in the morning, though. Hopefully have some results posted after lunch.

Methos said:
@temmage: Of course you're welcome to post comments! We can always use suggestions/observations/etc.
I would like to second Methos' sentiment. I, for one, welcome all lurker comments.
 
This may be a stupid question, but I'm going to go out on a limb and ask it anyway. Why are we researching Philosophy? I really cannot see the immediate benefits of Philosophy. It does open the door to Military Tradition and/or Democracy. Am I missing something?
 
Recall the variant? The three culture cities cannot have any wonders in them, and we built the Oracle in Mecca. So Mecca cannot be one of the culture cities. To be honest I don't believe we've yet decided what any of the three cities will be.

I stopped thinking for a sec. :confused: :D
 
Situation Assessment: The first thing that I notice is that there are no barbarians! :goodjob: This is surely a testament to SW's whack-a-barb abilities. Unfortunately, he was forced to pull our fog busters back to defend the empire. I will need to get those back in place ASAP.

Unfortunately, we are fairly weak in the military department. We have only 5 Archers and 3 Axemen at our disposal. Another Axeman is due in 2 turns. My guess is we are going to need to double our forces before we are truly safe from the barbarians.

The year is 350AD and we have only 3 cities. :eek: We have a settler in the queue but it is not due for another 19 turns. Our lack of cities is probably our weakest point at the moment. A review of our cities shows that health is also an issue. Mecca is currently at -2 health, while both Medina and Damascus are only at max health. Not sure if this is a bug or what, but I thought that forest were +0.5 under the new patch. I count 7 forests in Mecca but it is only getting +2 health; shouldn't it be +3? Mecca is also at max happiness.

Our cities have a lot of unimproved land and we have only 2 workers. One worker is building a stone quarry at Medina. He needs 8 turns to finish. The other worker is building a 7 turn farm on the flood plains at Damascus. We clearly need more workers! These guys working individually take way too long to do anything. Yet there is too much to do to put them into a single work gang.

Financially, we are in good shape. We have 53 gold in the treasury, and we are generating +1gpt at 90% on the slider. And that is with working only 1 of our 2 gold mines. We are paying 5gpt for city maintenance and 4gpt for civic upkeep. The civic upkeep is mainly the theocracy civic that we are currently running.

We are currently researching Philosophy, which is due in 19 turns. Our 3 cities are generating 48bpt at the moment. I'm not sure that I agree with the Philosophy decision. We currently have 60 beakers invested and I would sorely hate to lose that investment. With 14 turns of research, we could get alphabet and literature to build the Great Library. Researching Machinery (18 turns) gets us on the road to Banking and Gunpowder. I would probably lean towards Paper, though. It would take 13 turns, but would open up Education and Printing Press. Those 1/2 price Universities will be nice. Unfortunately, nothing that I could choose would have an immediate impact.

Overall, I think we are in bad shape. We have more needs than we have the ability to fulfill those needs. We need more cities, more workers, more troops, more health, more beakers, and (eventually) more money. Maybe I'm nuts or maybe I'm just dense, but it seems to me that we are suffering from lack-of-plan-itis. After all, we still don't have a plan for our 3 culture cities.

Objectives: I'm really not sure where to begin. I'm thinking that our lack of production is directly related to our lack of cities. I should probably use Medina and Damascus for Settler factories and continue to pump troops out of Mecca. If the new cities are used as Worker pumps, then those workers can hook up the health resources that would allow us to start growing population again.

Ok, then. Settlers and troops will be my priorities. I'll try and get the fog busters back up and whack any barbs that get too annoying.

Turn 0 - 350AD The research decision was a tough one for me. I opt for Alphabet and Literature. I'm not sure this was a wise decision, since we currently do not have any spare production capacity for wonder building. Maybe one day soon we will, though.

I attempt to MM Mecca to stagnate the growth. In order to do so, though, means adding 2 turns to research. Not sure I like the tradeoff, so I leave Mecca alone for the moment.

I MM the other cities to stagnate their growth. This shaves a turn off of our research.

Turn 1 - 375AD Damascus completes its Obelisk. I queue up a Settler, due in 11 turns. There is still 15 turns left on the Settler at Medina. I decide to abort the quarry in favor of a forest chop. There are currently 3 forests at Medina, so chopping one should not impact the health bonus.

Turn 2 - 400AD Mecca finishes an Axeman, start it on another. Still no sight of any new barbs. I continue to redeploy our forces on fog busting duty.

Turn 3 - 425AD :coffee: -- the true fog buster! :lol:

IBT: Taoism has been founded in a distant land. Based on the religion screen, I had assumed that we had the tech lead. Now I'm not so sure. I really hope that AI isn't making a beeline for Democracy. I'm not sure if the emancipation penalty would effect us since we don't have contact yet.

Turn 4 - 450AD Mecca finishes another Axeman, start it on yet another. We've used up all of our overflow, so this one will take 3 turns. By firing our Priest, I can get it back down to 2 turns. If it wasn't for the -2 health, we could still have our Priest and our production.

The forest at Medina has been cleared, and Medina is still at max health. However, the settler is now due in 7 turns.

Turn 5 - 475AD I put our Medina worker back on quarry duty. Interestingly, he picks up right where he left off.

Turn 6 - 500AD Yet another Axeman. I queue up another one and hire the Priest back.

Turn 7 - 520AD Alphabet is now learned. Literature will be due in 5 turns. We picked up another turn on the research, somewhere. The farm at Damascus is now complete, shaving a turn off of the Settler being trained. Both Settlers are now due in 4 turns. I task the worker to complete the road between Mecca and Damascus.

Turn 8 - 540AD Mecca builds our 7th Axeman. I figure we could use another Archer for city defense, since we have 2 Settlers coming pretty soon.

Turn 9 - 560AD We've got so many units outside of our borders on fog busting duty that our unit supply costs have ticked up to 1gpt. We're now breaking even, thanks to our Priest.

Turn 10 - 580AD Mecca completes the Archer. I send the Archer down to Damascus to meet up with the Settler. I queue up another Archer.

Our empire, as it stands today:
Meth01_580AD_Update.JPG


I've pushed back a lot of the fog; but there is still quite a bit out there, especially in the south. And best of all, no new barbarians. Only the barb city, defended by 2 Archers, in the NE remains.

We now have 6 Archers and 7 Axemen. Note that I did not promote any troops. If we want to take that barb city, we may want a sword or two.

Meth01_580AD_Troops.JPG


Financially, we are doing alright. But that is probably going to change with these new cities.

Meth01_580AD_Budget.JPG


There will be 2 Settlers trained next turn. Do we want to stick with the original dot map or draw up another one?

Literature will be complete in 2 turns. I'm thinking the Great Library is looking better and better. But, we also need Libraries and Courthouses. I've queued up an Archer in Mecca. He will be trained in 2 turns with some overflow available for the GL. If the GL isn't on the horizon, there are probably better uses for those shields.

One last screenshot. I think this pretty much sums up that we are in last place.
Meth01_580AD_Score.JPG


Oh, and don't forget that we are still running theocracy. We won't need this civic once we stop training troops.
 
Conroe said:
Overall, I think we are in bad shape. We have more needs than we have the ability to fulfill those needs. We need more cities, more workers, more troops, more health, more beakers, and (eventually) more money. Maybe I'm nuts or maybe I'm just dense, but it seems to me that we are suffering from lack-of-plan-itis. After all, we still don't have a plan for our 3 culture cities.

I agree with this, but feel it is mostly due to the barbs. Either way, we definitely need to start picking our city sites.

I put our Medina worker back on quarry duty. Interestingly, he picks up right where he left off.

Yes, this is a very nice feature. Whenever you stop a worker improvement and go back to it, the previous work is still there. In other words you could do a forest chop and stop it at 1 turn left, than resume it just as you were beginning the build you want to rush. Very handy if several forests were set up this way.

Yes, it's fairly obvious we aren't doing very good. The poor landmass, being isolated, and all the barbs aren't helping. We need to get those settlers out there pronto and pick our culture cities.

I'll look at the save shortly.

Roster:
Methos
Soul Warrior
Conroe- Just Played
MeteorPunch- Up
ChrTh- On Deck
 
Methos said:
I agree with this, but feel it is mostly due to the barbs. Either way, we definitely need to start picking our city sites.
Oh, I definitely agree, Methos. We've been fighting barbs for something like 40 or 50 turns now.:crazyeye: For some reason, they seem worse than usual to me. Oh, and please do not confuse my ramblings with criticism. I don't want to screw things up for us and that is just my way of organizing my thoughts. If I don't dot my t's and cross my i's before I start playing, I'll lose focus before the 10 turns are complete.:sad:
 
No problem at all Conroe, as it enables me to remember exactly what is going on in the game. Your posts are helpful in all of our mutual games. Too many games means its very easy to get them confused when reading someones posts. :D

@MeteorPunch: She's yours MP.
 
620 discover Literature. It was a really hard choice for what to research next, but I go for Music for possible Great Artist and Cathedrals.
640 Bagdad founded. I missed 3 turns of growth at Damascus because the stop growth button was selected. I've never used that button before - why stop growth? You can poprush the unhappy people.
660 Najran founded.
680 switch to Organized Religion to build missionaries (spread our state religion, Buddhism). We need OR anyway with all our building ahead.
800 Great Prophet is born in Mecca! I have not moved him, but he is fortified.

- We need to pick our 3 cities. We could probably leave Mecca on settlers, workers, and military.
- Save the Great Artist if we get one from Music.
- Cathedrals won't do us any good if there's not much culture to multiply by 50%.
- Chop the forest here and irrigate south. Don't chop these 2 trees, we'll need the production.
MP_Meth01_04.JPG


MP_Meth01_03.JPG
 
Forgot to say, I'm willing to run our science into the ground, even like 10% total so that we can have 9 cities with temples ASAP. We have many good cultural building techs available now, so we should start building and not worry about tech.

My vote for 3 culture cities: Damascus, Medina, and Bagdad. The sites must have good production.
 
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