Meth01: Culture, with no Wonders

[ChrTh]

I am shocked! I've already provided enough clues so that someone can approximate how long it takes to research Civil Service

We're right now at 4GPP a turn in Mecca, about to be 6 (I believe) with building of the shrine. So without hiring any specialists, that's 196/6=32.66 more turns.

Finishing up my turns now, will likely do the shrine unless Civil Service is a long ways away.

 

[Methos]

We're right now at 4GPP a turn in Mecca, about to be 6 (I believe) with building of the shrine. So without hiring any specialists, that's 196/6=32.66 more turns.

Actually this is incorrect. It takes the amount of commerce you are making, multiplied by the research percent and than you add the number of cities you have. So if you are saying we have around 6 gpt (@ 100% research) plus two cities we should be making around 8 bpt. Granted there are a few other factors, such as # of opponents, prerequisites, etc. I believe I stated that correctly.

Here, check out Requies's Technology Research Explained. He can explain it a lot better than I can.

 

[ChrTh]

Actually this is incorrect. It takes the amount of commerce you are making, multiplied by the research percent and than you add the number of cities you have. So if you are saying we have around 6 gpt (@ 100% research) plus two cities we should be making around 8 bpt. Granted there are a few other factors, such as # of opponents, prerequisites, etc. I believe I stated that correctly.

Here, check out Requies's Technology Research Explained. He can explain it a lot better than I can.

I was talking about Great Person Points, not commerce, so my math was more right

Besides, you're about to see what really happened ...

 

[Methos]

I was talking about Great Person Points, not commerce, so my math was more right

Did I not tell you that I am extremely observant!?!

 

[ChrTh]

Turn 5 -- 275 BC (continued)

Ok, Civil Service is going to take 37 turns. Screw that! I'm researching it with Moses.
4 turns to Civil Service.

A small troop heads South to build the 3rd city.

I hire a Priest to get our GPP up to 10/turn, so 20 turns to the next Great Prophet. We're growing slower now but building at a quicker rate. Next player should keep an eye on it (note that we're also unhappy if we grow before the whip effect wears off)

Turn 6 -- 250 BC

Troop continues South. Barbarians ahoy!

Turn 7 -- 225 BC

Mecca: Archer > Archer

Damascus is built, starts Obelisk.

Turn 8 -- 200 BC

Barbarian Warriors die attacking Archers. Archers then move to defend town from approaching archers.

Turn 9 -- 175 BC

...but they still lose

Civil Service is in, back to Monarchy ... er, no, I decide I want to go for Math instead (forts, catapults).

I revolt to Bureaucracy and Theocracy (want the extra experience points for the soldiers while we fight the barbarian wars).

Piece o'cake. Math in 10 now.

Judaism spreads to Damascus. Flowed down the river.

DAMMIT, Mecca grew ... ah, I see, when the barb archer landed on the town, Mecca started working a food tile. Oh well, 13 turns of a useless person in Mecca I guess.

Kill the barb archer, start working the town again, Math in 8. Wow, 4 turns shaved off of Math by switching to bureaucracy. I guess Civil Service was the right call

Turn 10 -- 150 BC

Mecca: Archer > Jewish Temple (due in 6, with Iron available in 5)
Medina: Archer > Worker

The Archer from Mecca I give "Drill II" to, and I send it South to see if it can do some cleanup (it's on the town right now).

Here's the world:


Here's the save:
View attachment 109393

 

[Methos]

Ok, Civil Service is going to take 37 turns. Screw that! I'm researching it with Moses.
4 turns to Civil Service.

Wow! That does sound like it was worth it.

Do the barbs appear as if their slowing down any? Hmm, need to look at the save. I’ll probably wait until tomorrow to play so we can discuss everyone’s opinion.

Any further thoughts on what you saw ChrTh?

 

[ChrTh]

Wow! That does sound like it was worth it.

Do the barbs appear as if their slowing down any? Hmm, need to look at the save. I’ll probably wait until tomorrow to play so we can discuss everyone’s opinion.

Any further thoughts on what you saw ChrTh?

There are currently no barbs that we can see (outside that village in the deep south). However, that doesn't mean they've given up. I think we can afford a temple/worker build before switching to Iron-using soldiers, however, once there we should "settle" the continent with forts and soldiers before turning to the next phase of the game (more cities and culture).

 

[Methos]

I’m thinking it might be best to irrigate those unimproved flood plains tiles around Mecca. Once Mecca is able to get a bigger size this would allow us to really pump out the great people here. It’s definitely got the capability.

Once the barbarians are dealt with switching to Organized Religion and Caste System would benefit us more. I’ve never used Theocracy but it appears are best bet in dealing with the barbs.

After Mecca finishes the temple would it be best for another settler or another temple? I’m thinking settler to help push to barbarians back, plus it’ll help our research and production.

After the worker in Medina I’m thinking Medina should stick with military for a little while. Edit: Cross posted with ChrTh on this point.

We need to get that sheep connected up north. Mecca is already unhealthy. Hopefully I’ll have the time, but doubt it. There’s too much other stuff the worker needs to prioritize. Man we need more workers.

Edit #2: Figured I'd add the roster...

Roster:
Methos- Up
Soul Warrior- On Deck
Conroe
MeteorPunch
ChrTh- Just Played

 

[Conroe]

Ok, Civil Service is going to take 37 turns. Screw that! I'm researching it with Moses.
4 turns to Civil Service.
<SNIP>
Wow, 4 turns shaved off of Math by switching to bureaucracy. I guess Civil Service was the right call

ChrTh has chosen wisely! Not to belabor the point, but I did some math using the numbers CT posted earlier. Since we have 3 cities, a shrine would be pulling in 3gpt if we built it. Since we pick up another prophet in 20 turns, we are losing a total of 60g by not building the shrine sooner. The 50% increase in commerce is probably worth twice that amount of gold. I don't normally take techs with my great people, but in this case it is a clear winner.

Once the barbarians are dealt with switching to Organized Religion and Caste System would benefit us more. I've never used Theocracy but it appears are best bet in dealing with the barbs.

Theocracy with a barracks is an incredibly powerful combination. Your units start with 6xp, which of course, is 2 promotions! It works well for barbs and Romans!

There are currently no barbs that we can see (outside that village in the deep south). However, that doesn't mean they've given up. I think we can afford a temple/worker build before switching to Iron-using soldiers, however, once there we should "settle" the continent with forts and soldiers before turning to the next phase of the game (more cities and culture).

I think we should get another settler going for "city 1" on SW's dot map. Especially if the barbs have calmed down.

 

[MeteorPunch]

I want to chime in and say it was a good move too!

With only 3 cities beauracracy is the bomb.

 

[ChrTh]

Quick thought about Theocracy vs. Organized Religion: As long as we have no one to convert, Theocracy is a lot better. 1, Theocracy has a lower upkeep and 2, the extra experience. The advantage OR has (outside of missionaries) is making it easier to build, but as long as we're on a war footing, Theocracy is the cheaper alternative.

Ditto Caste System v Slavery. Hiring artists and merchants isn't very useful when fighting the barbs. Let's keep that going!

 

[Methos]

Turn 109 (150 BC)
Methos: MM Mecca to get the temple in 4, shaving off 2 turns. Growth is still stagnant.
Methos: MM Damascus to emphasize growth. It is now at +3 fpt.

Turn 110 (125 BC)
Methos: I send an archer to one of the hills near the game as a lookout. Hopefully this will open enough fog to help keep the barbs away.
Methos: Decide that it is a good idea so send several archers out to hills outside of our borders.

Turn 111 (100 BC)
Methos: And of course as soon as I do, the enemy appears. Oh well, we still have enough defenders and iron should be getting ready soon.

Turn 112 (75 BC)
Methos: The iron is now mined, and construction on a road has begun.
Mecca finishes: Jewish Temple
Archer defeats (2.04/3): Barbarian Archer
Archer defeats (0.87/3): Barbarian Warrior

Turn 113 (50 BC)
Mecca begins: Barracks
Methos: Since Medina is busy, I decide to build a barracks in Mecca so we can get some axemen out.
Methos: Our nothern archer whips up on an archer and a warrior.
Archer loses to: Barbarian Axeman (3.10/5)

Turn 114 (25 BC)
Methos: One of our southern archers gets his butt handed to him.
Methos: End up bringing two of our fog-killing archers back.
Damascus grows: 2

Turn 115 (0 AD)
Medina begins: Axeman
Methos: I switch Medina to an axemen as a barb axemen is sitting adjacent to our temporairly connected iron.
Tech learned: Mathematics
Medina's borders expand
Archer defeats (1.11/3): Barbarian Axeman

Turn 116 (25 AD)
Research begun: Metal Casting
Methos: I'm rather shocked! An archer (in a forest) whips a barb axemen!
Medina begins: Worker
Mecca finishes: Barracks

Turn 117 (50 AD)
Mecca begins: Axeman

Turn 118 (75 AD)
Mecca grows: 9
Mecca finishes: Axeman
Archer defeats (1.47/3): Barbarian Axeman

Turn 119 (100 AD)
Mecca begins: Axeman
Axeman promoted: Combat I
Axeman promoted: Shock
Methos: We finally have an axemen! I give him +10% strength plus +25% versus melee. He heads south to the action.
Medina finishes: Worker
Archer defeats (3.00/3): Barbarian Warrior

Turn 120 (125 AD)

I&#8217;m wondering if it would be best to build several axemen and get them stationed on hilltops located within the fog. This would definitely help pushing the barbs back. Here&#8217;s an image of possible lookout points:

Note there are only five green X&#8217;s. With a unit parked on a hill you can see two tiles away so long as there is nothing to interfere. The warrior in the south is currently moving to the southern most X so we would only need four other units.

Those green X's are a little tough to see.

I also just noticed this:

I didn&#8217;t note any possible lookout sites there as we could just capture the city and control the fog anyway. I&#8217;m a little unsure how good of a city location it is though.

I probably shouldn&#8217;t have had the new worker start a farm just north of Medina as there is other stuff that could be done, but figured why not. If we farm the two grass tiles north of Medina it&#8217;ll help be able to support production. Currently Mecca is the only good producer and I&#8217;m hoping this will allow Medina to become one too.

The other worker is working on getting a road between Mecca and Damascus. We need to speed up troop movement between the two cities.

If we farm the three flood plains tiles around Damascus it would allow us to work the four hill tiles surrounding the city. We should probably skip cottages here and instead go for growth support.

Here's the 125 AD save.

Roster:
Methos- Just Played
Soul Warrior- Up
Conroe- On Deck
MeteorPunch
ChrTh

 

[Methos]

Any suggestions, opinions, pro's/con's of my ideas, or 'I got it" (@SW).

 

[ChrTh]

That's actually not a bad location (the barb city), it'd give us an East Coast port. Probably shouldn't be one of the 3 culture cities, though.

 

[Shillen]

Lurker comment:

That map is like one of those where's waldo pictures. Took me forever to find all the X's. Do all your writing on maps in green from now on. It adds a whole new layer of fun to them.

 

[Methos]

Lurker comment:

That map is like one of those where's waldo pictures. Took me forever to find all the X's. Do all your writing on maps in green from now on. It adds a whole new layer of fun to them.

Unfortunately you can't change the color. The color is based off of whatevery color is used for your civ. Note I was using the drawing available for the game. Probably should have just used MS Paint.

 

[MeteorPunch]

Methos: next time use the show terrain button (I think thats what it's called). I just noticed it semi-recently and it is great for dotmaps.

If we only need 4 units to control the fog than it's a good idea. I thoughts we'd need more than that, but I can't really see the map clearly to know for sure.

 

[Methos]

Methos: next time use the show terrain button (I think thats what it's called). I just noticed it semi-recently and it is great for dotmaps.

Didn't know there even was one. Thanks!

@SoulWarrior: Are you able to take it, or do you need a swap?

 

[Methos]

Well, its been over two days since SW has been online so we probably should go ahead and skip/swap him. Plus from what I recall in TGOMTG he likes to do a little celebrating. As I recall, he also plays pretty good thatway too!

Either Conroe or SoulWarrior, she's yours.

Oh yeah,
For some of you, it's already the New Year.

 

[soul_warrior]

indeed it was a VERY hectic weekend.
didnt even get home from thursday.

i can take it tonight (in about 8 hours)
sorry about delay,

and a VERY HAPPY NEWYEAR, Y'ALL