Michael Moore. Propagandist Or Documentary-Maker?

Michael Moore. Propagandist Or Documentary-Maker?


  • Total voters
    80
  • Poll closed .
Nanuk of the North was a considered to be on of the great documentaries on Native development in Northern Canada--it turned out it was all play-acted. Nevertheless, it still gives some insight into how Inuit lived before European colonization.

Mike's documentaries are not play-acted but they 'stretch' the facts. His work is still considered insightful in many ways.

Putting aside the fiasco over his Heston-bashing in BFC, most of his info on the links between Corperate America--George W. Bush being a spawn of the worst aspects of that America--and the problems now facing America are quite factual. He just spells it out using a format that the average Big-Mac-munching American can swallow.

Propaganda implies a form of coersion. Coersion implies one party trying to alter the actions of another by convincing the other party that this is the best way to go. Mike's work concerns revealing the actual nature of certain aspects of American society through satire. If there is a change in the vote (ha) as a result of F911 then it will only be because more people were made aware of a situation that they were not aware of before. Mike will not have 'convinced' these people as there was no effective counter-arguement--there is no Bizarro-Mike that reveals the underlying evil in Left-wing politics (you know like fighting--or more like trying to fight--for the welfare of citizens and all that morally repugnant stuff). There is no real counter-arguement that says Bush does not represent the interests he represents--no need to mention what those interests are because many people already know, which is part of the reason why there is no counter arguement except for that of a small fraction of the American population who see it as their duty to protect Corperate America from the evils of "socialism." The reason for doing all of this 'propaganda' is to inform the many who do NOT know (i.e. they have no agenda but are simply unaware of the situation). They are not being convinced but rather informed. So, Mike's work is for the purpose of informing and not simply a clever means of propaganda. Why? Because what he's saying is mostly based on fact and not pulled out of his ass for his own profit.

Someone compared Mike's work with Nazi propaganda. Nazi propaganda was used for either covering up Nazi atrocities or justifying attacks by depicting the other side as the aggressor. Mike's work reveals rather than covers up and he is not depicting Bush as an aggressor, Bush IS an agressor. If anything, Bush's tactics up to now have coincided far more with the Nazi propaganda war machine than Mike's criticism of Bush could be by any stretch of the imagination. The right wing American media's limted coverage of American deaths in Vie...Iraq is similar in some ways to fascist use of propaganda to make even the most disasterous situation seem like a walk in the park or even defeat seem like victory.
 
Michael Moore has brought up some good points and then drowned them out with his lack of objectivity. So his arguments are often weak. Though people on the opposite side of his arguments do the same thing all the time.
 
He is a truthful propogandist, but Bowling for Columbine was a documentary.
 
cgannon64 said:
Was the cartoon about the history of America documentary?
It was funny, but it was biased.

It was biased but was not all lies. It was not really intended as a complete history of the US but rather to support a point he was making. This means it wasn't documentary. Certainly not that portion. I wouldn't call that portion propaganda. Better to accept the good and bad then pretend to be an angel.
 
He has been known to 'stretch' truth (and people know he does because his format is satire). Propaganda usually takes the form of lies made to coerce--it ususally stays far away from facts. Mike doesn't make his stuff up--if only because it would be pointless to do so as he could easily be disproven (none of his facts have been disproven, only some have been contested and only for distorting truth, not outright lying).

Just for the record, few documentaries are completely factual and much of it rests on the perspective of the viewer. If Mike were to make a documentary about the Alaskan Kodiak bear he would be accused of making it seem as though the animal ate less fish than it actually does. It wouldn't be propaganda. Only a proponent of hunting down the Kodiaks would see this as being an example of Moore's unjust fight against local Alaskan fishermen.
You see how infrmation can be made to seem like propaganda by those who dislike what the information says? The point is: who cares about the inconsitencies, it's the big picture that matters (e.g. the bears are being hunted to extinction). [Note that Kodiaks are not being hunted AFAIK, it was just an example...not to be confused with propaganda.]
 
GrandAdmiral said:
It was biased but was not all lies. It was not really intended as a complete history of the US but rather to support a point he was making. This means it wasn't documentary. Certainly not that portion. I wouldn't call that portion propaganda. Better to accept the good and bad then pretend to be an angel.

Not propaganda, no, but it certainly eliminates any objectivity it has.

That was just an example, BTW.
 
Who makes un-bias documentaries anyways. There are too many facts in the world concerning a single subject so documentarists have to choose what they want to use to make a point. There's not a single documentary I've seen that is not bias, even the ones I agree with.
 
WillJ said:
I notice that no one's using this definition:

Consisting of, concerning, or based on documents

Certainly Moore's films consist of documents? :p But seriously, I'd say he's much more of a propogandist than a documentarian.
I also agree that Moore's films are propogandist as oppose to documentarian. He uses his films to express his views on events that have happened.
 
Comparing "The Wonderful World of Dung" to "Attention Al Qaeda: Buy My New Indoctrination Video" is a bit extreme.
 
Anyone that truly expected one of Moore's films to show both sides in clear light and let them debate each other on the screen hasn't been paying much attention lately.

Not propaganda, per se...but far from perfect. And why should it really matter?
 
There's probably a whole lot of truth and evidence in there...sorry, I only saw "Roger & Me"....but you have to separate it from his editorial opinion thrown in there to come up with....I can't believe I'm saying this...your....your...your own opinion!

I can't believe I just said that....it just....blurted out!
 
I think he provides an important role. He provides that usually-unseen opinion (that many wish would stay unseen) that needs to be expressed. I would still say documentary even although his personal view is obvious, as he is still getting information out there, albeit selective information, it is information nonetheless.

cgannon64 said:
I don't think he would even call his movies documentaries.
I think he would.
 
With all the crap coming from Hollywood MM-films are one of the few things you can really look forward to. Fahrenheit had extremely good reviews around here, always with the words "if it is true it will be a blow to Bush".

If he can't release it in the US (which he said) he probably should try out a new sort of distribution, it could be the first major movie to be free for download (legally). It would definitely prove that he's not only in for the money.
 
Back
Top Bottom