Minarets

[Heretic_Cata]

Hi

We all know minarets as one of the distinctive features of islamic architecture.

But when exactly did minarets start to be built ?
They were probably built for some other purpuse before becoming a part of the "religious" architecture. What were they ?
It also likely that the arabs borrowed this architectural thingy for some nation or another. Who ?

Most of those questions are just out of curiosity. But i really have to know how far back in history were minarets seen ?

 

[thetrooper]

I think they were first used as watchtowers.

I went to Tunisia on vacation 15 years ago. Man, was that hard to wake up at 0500 in the morning...

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

I know that Arab and Muslim archetecture is derived from Roman archetecture, but I don't know specifically where minarets came from. They are used by the Imams to call the faithful to prayer.

 

[Heretic_Cata]

I think they were first used as watchtowers.

That makes sense.

I went to Tunisia on vacation 15 years ago. Man, was that hard to wake up at 0500 in the morning...

Why did you wake up at 5 ?

I know that Arab and Muslim archetecture is derived from Roman archetecture, but I don't know specifically where minarets came from.

I didn't know that - but all the domes and stuff do look byzantine. Someone(o poster) once said that they had some architecture from egypt aswell - but he didn't say what exactly.

They are used by the Imams to call the faithful to prayer.

Can you imagine how loud he had to scream ? I always wondered about that. Having a loud voice was probably one of the main perks you had to have to become an imam.

 

[thetrooper]

Why did you wake up at 5 ?

Minaret. Loudspeakers. Prayer.

 

[Heretic_Cata]

Minaret. Loudspeakers. Prayer.

I'm quite close to a mosque and i never hear it at 5AM. They are probably more pious in Tunisia - so they have louder speakers.

 

[Verbose]

Here's an old one, from the 9th century, in Samarra, Iraq. I'm not entirely sure what it resembles except itself.

 

[Warman17]

I'm not entirely sure what it resembles except itself.

Many artists have depicted the tower of babel after this, though the idea of the tower looking like this is probably influenced by the structure and not the other way around.

 

[civverguy]

Here's an old one, from the 9th century, in Samarra, Iraq. I'm not entirely sure what it resembles except itself.

I think this is a Civ 4 wonder.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

It's called the Spiral Minaret. I was taught it resembles sea shell.

I didn't know that - but all the domes and stuff do look byzantine. Someone(o poster) once said that they had some architecture from egypt aswell - but he didn't say what exactly.

And Egypt and Byzantium were parts of what empire? Anyone? Anyone?

 

[Heretic_Cata]

And Egypt and Byzantium were parts of what empire? Anyone? Anyone?

But there were some local styles of course. (at least on the Egypt part)

 

[Mirc]

Here's an old one, from the 9th century, in Samarra, Iraq. I'm not entirely sure what it resembles except itself.

This was originally a Ziggurat, a traditional Mesopotamian place of worship. It doesn't have much to do with normal minarets.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

This was originally a Ziggurat, a traditional Mesopotamian place of worship. It doesn't have much to do with normal minarets.

No it wasn't.

It's part of the Great Mosque of Samarra. It was built in the 9th Century, I'm sure no ziggurats were built within a thousand years of that time.

After a wee bit of reasearch, it appears minarets were originally watchtowers, illuminated by torches at night. The arabic word for minaret comes from the arabic word for light: nur. However, it's chief use is to call Muslims to prayer. It's verticality is basically derived from the same place that the height of the gothic cathedral's vaulted ceiling is: as a symbolic bridge between Heaven and Earth.

It also appears that Muslim archetects have, as usually happens, turned minarets into a penis contest, seeing who can build the tallest one. Which, BTW, is in Morocco.

 

[Heretic_Cata]

It also appears that Muslim archetects have, as usually happens, turned minarets into a penis contest, seeing who can build the tallest one. Which, BTW, is in Morocco.

Isn't that what happens with all buildings styles ?


So in conclusion there is no way you could see minarets in Jerusalem around Jesus times right ?

 

[Maimonides]

No.

There are minarets in Jerusalem, but Islam wasn't around in Jesus' day. The minarets I saw in Jerusalem date to the era of the Crusades.

The walls around the Old City of Jerusalem were built by the Ottomans I think. Can't remember the name of the specific sultan that had them built.

The only substantial structure in Jerusalem that dates to the 1st century is the Wailing Wall. The Romans destroyed much of Jerusalem in 70 C.E. The Crusaders also destroyed much of the city when they conquered it. Specifically, mosques & synagogues were put to the torch.

 

[Heretic_Cata]

I'm almost ready.

But what i meant was, if you were alive in Jesus times would you see any minarets in Jerusalem ?

Main Purpouse of thread: i'm denigrating a book which has SERIOUS historical errors and pretends to tell the truth. One of the things are the hundreds of minarets that Jesus saw looking at when he was in Jerusalem. So that's what i needed to check with this thread.

 

[Mirc]

No it wasn't.

I stand corrected, you're right, it wasn't. But it looks so close to a ziggurat!!

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

I stand corrected, you're right, it wasn't. But it looks so close to a ziggurat!!

Because of the Iraqi historical reference of the ziggurat, it's quite possible that the designers of this minaret had that it mind when they designed it, archetects do that a lot.

 

[Maimonides]

But what i meant was, if you were alive in Jesus times would you see any minarets in Jerusalem ?

Main Purpouse of thread: i'm denigrating a book which has SERIOUS historical errors and pretends to tell the truth. One of the things are the hundreds of minarets that Jesus saw looking at when he was in Jerusalem. So that's what i needed to check with this thread.

Again, no. At least, not the Islamic minarets described here so far. There would certainly have been towers as part of the defensive walls, but not minarets which are too thin to be defensive structures. The largest structure in Jerusalem by far in Jesus' day was the Temple Mount complex.

Jews do pray three times a day, but the prayer times are determined far in advance, not announced at the moment from a minaret. Islam came along about five centuries after Jesus.

 

[Heretic_Cata]

Again, no. At least, not the Islamic minarets described here so far. There would certainly have been towers as part of the defensive walls, but not minarets which are too thin to be defensive structures. The largest structure in Jerusalem by far in Jesus' day was the Temple Mount complex.

Jews do pray three times a day, but the prayer times are determined far in advance, not announced at the moment from a minaret. Islam came along about five centuries after Jesus.

That settles it then. There was no way Jesus could have looked from the Temple Mount and see hundreds of (non-muslim) minarets in the whole city.

Yay, now i'm ready to mop the floor with the book.

Cheers all