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Minecraft MMORPG server based on FfHII lore

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by AlteOgre, May 27, 2013.

  1. AlteOgre

    AlteOgre Chieftain

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    Hi all,

    I've played FfHII since 0.23 and only stopped about half a year ago. Then I switched to the addicting sandboxgame minecraft. After going through almost all possible playstyles I now get the most fun playing in fantasy based MMORPG servers. More and more of such servers offer very interesting gameplay in fantasy worlds. Many mods and plugins have been developed that enable to play in civilization-like adventure/quest worlds, with experience gain and skill development, unit classes, races and town and nation economies.
    Having played on some roleplay servers the thought of reviving Erebus for such a roleplay server crossed my mind ... and now we have actually started on developing one with the FfHII lore as major starting point.

    Here's my (first) questions:
    - Are there experienced FfHII players or developers, with or without minecrfat experience, who might be interested in joining us to help out in development, and/or just to come and join the MMORPG in a FfHII based minecraft world?
    - How would the FfHII team want us to mention / honour / reward / ... its produce as we will put it to use in a whole new gameplay environment?

    Looking forward to your response!
     
  2. AlteOgre

    AlteOgre Chieftain

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    Some additional thoughts and info:

    * In minecraft the 1st person viewpoint is leading. A player plays a character in a world he/she creates with other players. For a FfHII inspired roleplay world this means we have to imagine and prebuild (part of) the world the player will see. So instead of paying a lot of attention to awesome unit art, in MC we focus on city structures and buildings for the 3D world our characters live in. This adds a whole new and exiting perspective to the civilizations of Erebus. Which models or architecture references would you advise us to use for inspiration?

    * We are working on a dedicated map, that will be a 'reflection' of Erebus, so not NK's lore-inspired awesome 19 civ map (though, maybe later ...). Players will start in one of a limited number of civs. Which civs would you advise us to start off with, and at what time in FfHII lore history?
     
  3. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko QCT junkie

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    I never played minecraft before, but I might just try it now :D

    what would one need to do to help development?
     
  4. AlteOgre

    AlteOgre Chieftain

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    Well, that could be a lot of things. Most important is that people only do what they're inspired to do and preferrably are good at too. Will can be done depends on the choices already made, our progress and the qualifications offered of course.
    As a 6-year-long-civfanatics lurker I have followed quite a lot of threads and mod-(mod) being developed, played a lot too, and I recall you having done a lot of work on map scripts and being very constructive on a very broad range of subjects.

    At the moment we have a small team with limited coding capacities (like to code for civ-specific abilities) and a tight schedule. We're recovering from a major hack in a previous (public) beta that forced us to redefine an MMORPG world. That is when the FfHII idea came in. As we do not wish to loose to much of our small but dedicated playerbase, we wish to restart with a new world for a new beta phase asap. So we take it a little bit easy on the development goals for the launch of beta, which will be whitelisted (with roleplay ability as predominant qualification criterium). This doesn't mean we will be easy on the lore, as we realize the immense opportunity FfHII lore and game mechanics will have for future expansions / other worlds, etcetera.

    Status now:

    - For the main world we have a random map with special, custom made biomes. (I'd looove to play NK's ICE map once ...)
    - We have 4 worlds (standard for multiplayer minecraft):
    - Vesperus
    The main world, created by Ceridwen, god of magic, as some distorted, playful reflection of Erebus, the world of FfHII.
    - Nemesis
    The spawn world, a vault created by Dagda, god of balance, to salvage the souls of men and the other main races of Erebus that were caught in the cataclysm.
    - The Nether
    A vault created by Agares, god of despair, who took the opportunity to connect his world to Ceridwen's new playground.
    - The End
    The reflection of the temporary rift that was created by Ceridwen to revenge Mulcarn, god of winter, as he was slain by Kylorin, who, by doing so, ended Mulcarn's reign and the age of ice on Erebus.​
    On Nemesis and Vesperus we prepare 6 towns with building environments that should resemble typical builds found on Erebus at the end of the Age of Ice / beginning of the Age of Rebirth.
    - The corresponding lore in a nutshell (still under review):
    As the age of ice ended, through Kylorin’s perseverance, and the races of Erebus recovered from the harsh era that scarred land and nations, Mulcarn succeeded to have one last fling at his nemeses.
    Ceridwen answered Mulcarns appeal to the evil gods, as he passed through her indefinite vault. Determined to grasp the opportunity to seize power and to avenge her former protégé, she invoked a cataclysmic event, creating an interdimensional rift that partially transferred creation. Through this, a reflection of Erebus was formed, Vesperus. And numerous creatures and men were taken from Erebus.
    Dagda, guardian of the compact, and Cassiel, his archangel, intervened secretly by creating their own vault, Nemesis, to salvage and protect what Ceridwen had taken from Creation.
    Slowly the rift empties and Vesperus and Nemesis become a new home.
    Lost soul, do not fear this new dawn, but never deny the End is nigh.
    - We'll start off with 5 nations (civs): Grigori, Doviello, Ljosalfar, Khazad and Clan of Embers. Leaders must be appointed and instructed to lead these nations in roleplay in-game.
    - There's lore to be written / deducted from Loocas' Compendium to enable players to create their own destiny and build their own towns and for nation politics to take it's own 'FfHII-lore-inspired' course.

    That's it for now.

    If you are really interested shout here or send me a private message on my civfanatics account. (That should be possible aye?)
     
  5. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko QCT junkie

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    sounds interesting, unfortunately as I've told you I've got zero minecraft experience atm so my involvement would be minimal at first. is there a forum/chatroom/something where people discuss development? that would be the best place to start I guess :)
     
  6. AlteOgre

    AlteOgre Chieftain

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    Here's the link to our website.
    http://www.dawnfirerealms.net
    We needed some time to fix our front page and clean up some stuff on the forum. The server is a restart of an MMORPG server that got hacked in May. The server name is 'DawnFire Realms'.

    Anyone interested, with a minecraft account, can join the website and come and meet the loyal playerbase on the temporary server world (IP: rp.dawnfirerealmd.net), where many are preparing for their roleplay adventures as Ljosalfar elf, Clan orc or Khazad dwarf.

    We're still in preparation of the beta, which is expected to be released in approximately 2 months from now. Current activities focus on production of the custom map, lore of the starting nations (civs) and preparation of the whitelist procedure.

    The basic history of Vesperus is established now. In a few days it will be published on the website. I am really very curious on what you FfHII die-hards think of that story. ;)

    Some players will join staff / get involved in pre-beta play-testing (balanceing issues) or writing additional lore. Interested?

    Anyway, we're looking forward to meeting some of you guys in the FfHII dark fantasy world of our MC environment!
     
  7. DukeofRealms

    DukeofRealms Chieftain

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    Hey there, I’m DukeofRealms, I am the Founder and current Owner of The DawnFire Realms MineCraft Server. I am also a Bukkit Project Manager; I create RPG plugins for the MC Community. I am a member and founder of The Lords of Code Developer Team, which has been recently created to bring in more RPG plugins for MC. Currently we are working on 3 Projects which will be used on the DawnFire Realms Server. Here is a small description on the plugins I am working on:

    Champions: A RPG Hub which brings in a ton of MMORPG features, some of the major features are – A Class System, Skill System , Spells System, Race System, Level System, Exp-Sources, Health Damage System, Mana, Stamina, Weapon and Magic Disciplines, Weapon Classes, Parties and many more.

    Mythical Creatures: A Supernatural system which allows you to create sub-races or Super Natural beings such as Vampires, Werewolves, Ghouls, Demons, Angels, Merfolk ect. The Mythical Creatures will give advantages and disadvantages towards the Champions Character through Champions. For example, Vampires might have increased Health and Stamina but they burn in the sunlight. Or you could have damage modifiers such as; Vampires are stronger with swords but are more vulnerable to wooden weapons.

    Conquer: Is a political, tactical military, town and nation plot system. Conquer enables us to have an advanced town and nation plot system. You decide how your political system works; you decide how towns and nation war with each other. Conqueror gives a more in depth way of providing settlements for our players, it aims to involve the users in a full scale tactical claiming system. Major features are – Nations, Towns, Settlements, Plot System, Governments, and Conquering System.
     
  8. AlteOgre

    AlteOgre Chieftain

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    The History of Vesperus, Erebus' twisted sister, is now published on our website. Any constructive feedback will be very much appreciated.

    So Kael or MagisterCultuum (still in Kael's head?), if you read this, please do not hesitate to check out how we twisted the end of the Age of Ice to blend in the story of our MineCraft MMORPG playworld. ;)
     
  9. AlteOgre

    AlteOgre Chieftain

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  10. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    I don't really know anything about Minecraft, except that my 10 year old nephew is a bit obsessed with it.


    Frankly, I'm afraid this diverges too much from canon for my tastes.

    Although I don't recall if it was ever explicitly stated, I tend to think that the gods lost the ability to create whole worlds/new planes of existence when The One took away the power of Ex Nihilo creation. It is however stated that the gods made many worlds before making Erebus. It may be possible for a god to recycle these old worlds into something new.



    I'm not a big fan of this cataclysm idea. It sounds like something that would violate the compact, unless the victims were already loyal to Ceridwen. When Bhall fell she was able to drag the good people of Braduk into the deepest hell with her, but this most likely could only happen because they had been her worshipers (and her personal property from the perspective of the gods).


    Kael has stated that the soul of Mulcarn was destroyed, completely annihilated. His soul did not pass through the ether into any other world known to any god. It does not exist, and cannot exist again unless The One Himself chooses to resurrect it. The only things of Mulcarn that survived are his precept (which has a will of its own, enough to seek out and seduce Auric to become its new master) and the tiny piece of his spirit that was given to Barnaxus in order to animate the golem. I don't really see much of a way for him to beg for help once the fatal blow is struck. I'm not even sure that he would want to do so. Mulcarn generally did not get along all that well with his fellow evil gods, and this would likely have been made worse once he saw them embrace his old enemy Bhall.


    It is unclear whether Dadga ever made a world. It seems hard to imagine a vault of balance without having it be made through opposing parties reaching compromises. Dadga is however responsible for the other gods cooperating on some planes. He first convinced the gods of opposite spheres to work together of worlds of contrast (sun and shadow, fire and ice, etc). He got them to admit that these were better than any plane dominated by a single precept, and then convinced them all to cooperate in the creation of Erebus. I like to consider Erebus itself the vault of Dagda. (There could still be other worlds of balance too though. At one point, Tebryn Arbandi was supposed to have come from another world very similar to Erebus but where magic played by somewhat different rules. I think that was been retconned out though.)

    I'm not a fan of the name Nemesis ("retribution") for a vault made by Dagda either. It sounds more appropriate for a vault of Junil or Camulos, or even a world of contrast between their precepts.


    Vesperus sounds much more like the vault of Esus than it does a creation of Ceridwen. Even the name (meaning "Evening") seems quite appropriate for a world ruled by Esus.

    It may be worth noting that Esus does not get along particularly well with his fellow evil gods. He has actively worked to thwart Ceridwen's plans to destroy the world. He hates the barrenness of the lowest hell (the ruins of Nyx), and does not like to associate with demons. He prefers to fill his realm with living beings, including some who were kidnapped from Erebus. His most loyal subjects could be given immortality in a world almost indistinguishable from their old home, never passing through the great machine of hell to become demons lords who might choose to serve another evil god.



    If I were having a 1st person perspective game set is primarily in a world resembling Erebus but different, where the characters had just escaped the tyranny of Mulcarn, I would do something rather different. I'd try to make it now Fall from Heaven, but Rise from Hell.

    When Mulcarn ruled Erebus and his precept dominated it, he would have brought this primary world into closer contact with his own vault. The distinction between Erebus and the first layer of hell may have weakened enough that multitudes could be taken into Mulcarn's hell, or perhaps even wandered there unknowingly. (Kael has stated that this is one hell where living beings can actually survive.) The death of the god could have freed them from their bondage, but would not have restored them to the world their ancestors knew. I their attempt to find their way home they would climb the great mountain, and then find themselves in the world of Esus instead.

    (You could of course also have players start in lower levels, or descend there. The City of Dis could be a major setting.)

    We may discover that the playable characters are actually dead, and cannot so easily make it back to the world of the living. If they finally are able to escape the deceptions of Esus without giving up hope and choosing to embrace hell, they may find that they must settle for the dreamworld of Arawn. Here they may have to confront the forces of Laroth. It is possible to get back to the world of the living from there, but one must pass through the liminal realm of the Shadow Rift first. The Once-Elves of the city of Barathrum guard the portal atop the Malachite Palace, and will go to great lengths to prevent anything that uses the portal to escape the land of the dead from then passing through the Well of Shadows into Erebus itself.
     
  11. Sephi

    Sephi Deity

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    poor Nemesis, her name is used these days for all kinds of weird stuff.

    If you don't want to be "easy on the lore", why create so many different worlds? Let the "worlds" simply be different areas of Erebus ;). Anyway, have fun with your Minecraft project :D
     
  12. AlteOgre

    AlteOgre Chieftain

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    Whoa, MC and Sephi!

    Thanks for your reactions guys.
    One thing before I will get into more detail in response to MC's feedback:

    The name 'Nemesis' for the Vault created by Dagda was chosen for it's original meaning: "The word Nemesis originally meant the distributor of fortune, neither good nor bad, simply in due proportion to each according to what was deserved.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nemesis_(mythology)
    The intention of Dagda's intervention according to our storyline being most in line with this description:
    http://www.theoi.com/Daimon/Nemesis.html].

    The name was not chosen with 'retribution' (the meaning most people directly associate with it) as starting point, but it was actually derived from a search on 'restoring the balance' in texts on mythology, using Dagda (the FfHII god) and his precept as a starting point.
     
  13. AlteOgre

    AlteOgre Chieftain

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    Minecraft has 3 standard worlds: a main World, The Nether and The End. Nether and End are very much different than main World. No day-night as in the main world and no solid world rock-bottom. Nether has lava deep down and if you fall off a cliff in The End, you end in the void (quite similar to Ceridwen's vault of hell). And the whole environment is different: all hellish features in The Nether and there's spooky stuff in The End.
    These three worlds serve the game objectives in Vanilla Minecraft gameplay. The Nether is quite challengeing but gives rewards that enable players to finally travel to The End, where they can slay the Enderdragon to finish their quest.

    For roleplay we can assume a slightly different approach but it seemed quite convenient to use these standard worlds in our (his)storyline. We added a spawn world as we wish to provide players a tutorial and a central gateway to the main hubs in the main World. The latter was required as we wish players to start off at certain regions and not all spread out from one spot on the map.
    For convenience we chose to have the 5 mentioned starting nations. Gameplay(er) dynamics will ensure nations will rise and fall as soon as we open the gates of the rift and unleash the players in Vesperus.
    Nemesis is presented as 'spawn world'. For Minecraft players this simply means it will contain a tutorial and it will function as a logistical hub between the other worlds.
     
  14. AlteOgre

    AlteOgre Chieftain

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    Minecraft is played by many kids, starting from 9-10. You will find experts in the most extensive modpack (Feed the Beast, IC2&GregTech) at ages from 12. Roleplay is dominated by more adult players and you may even find people in their forties on MMORPG servers. The roleplay servers also attract more female players.

    This maybe surprising, but: I have the same feeling about the story. Ideally I would like to rebuild Nikis' ICE31 map and start with 31 civ proven leader-players and many more carefully selected whitelisted other players, all mature and capable of roleplay. As we can only start with a very limited number of civ (nation) leaders and must also leave a lot of creative room for player base dynamics to fill in a lot of blanks wrt civ creation, city building, politics, etcetera, we need a lot of compromise. This is the main reason we could not settle for an 'easy in-canon' storyline, like starting on a part of Erebus.

    We could state our storyline is non-canon from where it begins. It's simply a different stroyline, based on the preceding story provided by FfHII lore. Hence, in our world we may never have Sheaim, Sidar or Kuriotate or any other entity that was not on or around Erebus at the time of our Cataclysm.

    It is interpreted as a major violation of the Compact. This is the reason why we even got Cassiel triggered to respond and Dagda to comply to Cassiel's call.

    Yeah, good points. Though I did not know much of these from the Compendium. This is the reason why I asked you to reflect on our reflections, as you are the one in Kael's head. :)
    So, we could maybe tweak it so that the precept chose another target in our storyline.
    Mulcarn or his precept or whatever representative entity left over after the execution of Mulcarn by the Godslayer, can have called upon the other evil gods/precepts, just because these are the 'disloyal' ones. That may provide just the tiny motivation difference a 'loser' would need to call upon friends he would have rather not had.

    I had similar considerations, hence I chose to have the most neutral of the good gods and some neutral gods, all having proven mutual backgrounds in several events in FfHII lore, to cooperate in the creation of this vault. I now wonder if you have read the History of vesperus, or if your comments are solely based on what I have provided in this thread.

    Covered in another reply, see above.

    I was looking for a name that would both reflect the dawn and the dusk. Going through several texts I decided to pick the combined greek star-gods Aesperos-Hesperos as reference. My motivation: (Hesperos = greek god of twilight, between dawn (Eos) and dusk (Astreos), Vesperus being the latin name and nicely illiterating with Erebus (greek god of chaos); see: http://www.theoi.com/Titan/AsterEosphoros.html).

    This are very interesting, so worth noting indeed. It may provide us with some additional options to create further storylines. As a matter of fact, in Minecraft roleplay servers every now and then you need to add a new worldmap to play on ... so, you see?! ;)

    Very nice. If you ever consider to have a taste of Minecraft, do come over and join us in creating this story/scenario and transferring it into a playworld. ;)

    I am guessing and hoping that when we have started with the first FfHII based server, predominantly with players who never played CivIV, let alone FfHII, we may have stimulated the interest and enthusiasm of our player base to such an extent that they would want more ... and then more story's / scenario's can follow. Even the complete rebuild of Erebus based on Nikis' map is possible and we could replay Armageddon as Sheaim and have Erebus infested with Infernals and Mercurians and add dragons like Eurabatres, Abashi and Acheron. All would require further development on the plugins DukeofRealms and his mates are working on.
    We may also extend our magic system, either make it comparable to the mana-driven system of FfHII or the magnificent version of Sephi (which I fancy a lot and think would be most convenient for use in Minecraft). Magic is allready an important part of our spell systems coupled to experience and class levelling. :)

    Thank you very much for this extensive feedback MC! :goodjob:
     
  15. Ruanek

    Ruanek Chieftain

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    I'd be interested in joining/helping out. I've been playing minecraft for a while but haven't done too much with mods or multiplayer.

    I do agree with MC that there are a few problems with lore, but I think the story of FfH is too good to not at least try to put into minecraft.:) That said, minecraft itself has limitations, as you have said.

    Edit: I am disappointed by the current nations, as I am something of a Bannor fan. But that's ok.:)
     
  16. AlteOgre

    AlteOgre Chieftain

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    Glad you're interested and registered already. Hope you like the gameplay on the temporary server. Note that almost all staff work is for preparing the new FfHII based server.

    As noted on our forums (character bio section) and in the lore, we assume characters can be from all of the nations (civs) that were on Erebus at the time of the Cataclysm. For convenience we chose to start with 5 nations. Nations may fall and new nations may rise. Even Amurite.

    Bannor may find a pleasant home within a few of the starting nations. We assume hopsitality towards other peoples to be improved due to the traumatic event that lead these peoples to Vesperus. ;)
     
  17. AlteOgre

    AlteOgre Chieftain

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    Due to irl matters the development of our FfHII based MineCraft roleplay server was a bit slow last few months. Fortunately we've been able to pick up the pace recently and that's why I'm again asking for your attention to this thread.

    We expect to go into alpha development soon and in doing so we will lauch a server world where players can experience the gameplay characteristics we will have on Vesperus. That world will be called Somnium (which is certainly not a coincidence!). Meanwhile we will have a team of builders and staff working on Nemesis and Vesperus. At beta-release the whitelisting procedure will become effective and the Rift will gradually release its captured souls to Nemesis, for a new mortal life on Vesperus.

    This is how Vesperus looks from a divine prespective:
    http://www.dawnfirerealms.net/attachments/vesperus-0-98-artist-impression-png.191/

    More on the above can be found at our website.

    We hope to welcome more FfHII veterans for a first-person MMO experience of Kael's heritage soon! And, do share your views on how we might optimally transfer the excellent gameplay concepts of the CIVIV/FfHII world to our gameplay environment.
     
  18. Akbarthegreat

    Akbarthegreat Angel of Junil

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    I had taken a 6 month break from cIV to play MC last year. Great game.
    A scenario of Sabathiel and the Bannor escaping from Hell (the Nether) would be awesome.
     
  19. AlteOgre

    AlteOgre Chieftain

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    Aye! Thanks for the inspiring suggestion. We may add adventure challenges like that later.
    We first need to make sure we can transfer FfHII flavour in our MC worlds. Currently defining the different combat class tiers, in line with the classes and tiers we know from FfHII.
    Hope to see you soon!
     
  20. AlteOgre

    AlteOgre Chieftain

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    Combat classes set. See post in this link:
    http://dawnfirerealms.net/threads/classes-and-skills.313/
    Hope it will be to the liking of the FfHII veterans who fancy the 1st person version of FfHII we're preparing atm.

    Any feedback from the FfHII community on our system for races and classes is highly appreciated!

    Edit:
    Oops, almost forgot to mention that we started closed alpha on Somnium, our non-whitelisted world. We also invite players who wish to help us build the spawn zones on Somnium and Nemesis and the capitals on Vesperus. So if you fancy building your own part of the Grigori, Ljosalfar, Doviello, Khazad or Clan of Embers capital: apply for a position as Aide in our staff! :)
     

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