Minor requests and questions thread

[sputnik323]

Didn't know where else to put this... don't think its a minor request tho. But would be a nice option for orbi IMO.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=321635 -game speeds and map sizes

Another interesting idea

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=320206 -Second chance heroes

 

[Opera]

@sputnik: Both of those features are interesting... I add them to my list

On another subject, I'm once again skimming through the XML of the Leaders and I think they should be very different. Currently, they all give +2 for Open Borders after 25 turns or so. They all have a maximum of +3 for sharing a war, etc. I think they need refining, making them really different. Some could give +4 for Open Borders; some could still give +2 but would only give so after 50 turns; some would just give +1 and after 30 turns; some wouldn't even give you relation bonus! I could see Basium give till +6 for sharing war while Einion would only give +2.

A nice thing: when deciding to attack a stack, two values are taken into account: iBaseAttackOddsChange and iAttackOddsChangeRand. The second is a set of values in which one is added to the first. So, having 4 in Base and 6 in Rand could give 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 or 10 (maybe in negative too, I don't know). The Balseraphs have 0 in the first and 16 in the second

Edit: BTW, the Mazatl, who are now able to adopt a religion, still have 0 as maximum bonus for same religion and 0 as maximum malus for different religion

 

[sputnik323]

@Opera, That is a fantasic idea to flavor the leaders! anything to improve diplomacy has my vote. You should check out what snarko has done to fix diplomacy (may save you some time or coding or give you further ideas) Snarko's forum link with improved AI diplomacy especially the part where AI's will make demands of other AI's!

- as a separate diplomacy issue... it would be nice for the AI to forget past history after a while and not be so mad at a war in the first 25 turns at turn 600, or still be happy that they were your ally long ago, and now you aren't helping them. I have no idea of the coding for this or if its even possible

 

[Ahwaric]

I agree, interesting additions sputnik. Not sure yet though

Regarding leaders, thanks for the tips. Truth be told, I was always scared by all the AI weigths and Leaders personality. So there is a lot to fix and improve...

And now something completly different (?)

As you can see in the patch log in the bug thread, 0.23 will bring some big changes to game, especially regarding barbarians. So, I have couple questions. I do not want to start another thread and some of them a related to minor things, so here we go.

• Currently only doviello are at peace with animals, but I think Ljosalfar could be ok, too. Of course there need to be a way to allow them to still capture animals (Doviello+ ?). Also, I think I will keep Charadon as barbarian (so he is at peace with both animals and orcs)
  
• Minor leaders traits - more than one (save minor) trait was inherited form scenarios. I think I can either force myslef to reduce the number of traits on minor leaders or increase it on normal ones. If going the reduction way, I think it should be either one big trait or two small ones Small in my opinion include : defender, arcane, magic resistant, ingenious.
  
• I think of adding new music for renaissance era and I think Arcanum (I love this game, at least from the flavour side) has nice one for the version of the renaissance (and the civs that actually are going to use it). You can get it here I think at least 16 & 13 (and maybe 17) will be in, but I am tempted to add more.

There was more, but it is all I remeber for now, so please tell me what do you think. Please feel free to post any other concerns regarding 23, too.

 

[sputnik323]

Currently only doviello are at peace with animals, but I think Ljosalfar could be ok, too. Of course there need to be a way to allow them to still capture animals (Doviello+ ?). Also, I think I will keep Charadon as barbarian (so he is at peace with both animals and orcs)

Yes I was wondering about this. Could they be given memorize animal that can only be cast once or has a bigger chance to fail? May just need to make a new promotion that does a similar thing with possible negative consequences like dungeon searching or prospecting; e.g. where if it fails the unit gets rabies or withered.

Also with the split between barbarian races will we see coastal raiders where orcs come off of ships to land. In pangea maps orcs don't have a place to spawn, and it would be cool to have them come off the ocean. Orcish pirates just gets me stoked!

 

[Valkrionn]

I gave them a mezmerize animal spell... You DO have to tweak it slightly so that those belonging to the Animal civ are always valid to capture, but I've already done that.

Here's my code for it:

Spoiler :

def reqMezmerizeAnimal(caster):
	iX = caster.getX()
	iY = caster.getY()
	pPlayer = gc.getPlayer(caster.getOwner())
	iTeam = pPlayer.getTeam()
	eTeam = gc.getTeam(iTeam)
	iAnimal = gc.getPlayer(gc.getANIMAL_PLAYER())
	for iiX in range(iX-1, iX+2, 1):
		for iiY in range(iY-1, iY+2, 1):
			pPlot = CyMap().plot(iiX,iiY)
			for i in range(pPlot.getNumUnits()):
				pUnit = pPlot.getUnit(i)
				if pUnit.getUnitCombatType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNITCOMBAT_ANIMAL'):
					if pUnit.getTeam() == iAnimal.getTeam():
						return True
					if eTeam.isAtWar(pUnit.getTeam()):
						return True
	return False

def spellMezmerizeAnimal(caster):
	iX = caster.getX()
	iY = caster.getY()
	pPlayer = gc.getPlayer(caster.getOwner())
	iTeam = pPlayer.getTeam()
	eTeam = gc.getTeam(iTeam)
	iAnimal = gc.getPlayer(gc.getANIMAL_PLAYER())
	for iiX in range(iX-1, iX+2, 1):
		for iiY in range(iY-1, iY+2, 1):
			pPlot = CyMap().plot(iiX,iiY)
			for i in range(pPlot.getNumUnits()):
				pUnit = pPlot.getUnit(i)
				if pUnit.getUnitCombatType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNITCOMBAT_ANIMAL'):
					if eTeam.isAtWar(pUnit.getTeam()):
						if pUnit.isDelayedDeath() == False:
							if pUnit.isResisted(caster, gc.getInfoTypeForString('SPELL_MEZMERIZE_ANIMAL')) == False:
								newUnit = pPlayer.initUnit(pUnit.getUnitType(), caster.getX(), caster.getY(), UnitAITypes.NO_UNITAI, DirectionTypes.DIRECTION_SOUTH)
								newUnit.convert(pUnit)
					if pUnit.getTeam() == iAnimal.getTeam():
						if pUnit.isDelayedDeath() == False:
							if pUnit.isResisted(caster, gc.getInfoTypeForString('SPELL_MEZMERIZE_ANIMAL')) == False:
								newUnit = pPlayer.initUnit(pUnit.getUnitType(), caster.getX(), caster.getY(), UnitAITypes.NO_UNITAI, DirectionTypes.DIRECTION_SOUTH)
								newUnit.convert(pUnit)

 

[Opera]

Regarding leaders, thanks for the tips. Truth be told, I was always scared by all the AI weigths and Leaders personality. So there is a lot to fix and improve...

Yeah, that's nothing. Those tags aren't very intuitive and it takes more than one tutorial about them to understand it all.

• Currently only doviello are at peace with animals, but I think Ljosalfar could be ok, too. Of course there need to be a way to allow them to still capture animals (Doviello+ ?). Also, I think I will keep Charadon as barbarian (so he is at peace with both animals and orcs)
  
• Minor leaders traits - more than one (save minor) trait was inherited form scenarios. I think I can either force myslef to reduce the number of traits on minor leaders or increase it on normal ones. If going the reduction way, I think it should be either one big trait or two small ones Small in my opinion include : defender, arcane, magic resistant, ingenious.
  
• I think of adding new music for renaissance era and I think Arcanum (I love this game, at least from the flavour side) has nice one for the version of the renaissance (and the civs that actually are going to use it). You can get it here I think at least 16 & 13 (and maybe 17) will be in, but I am tempted to add more.

There was more, but it is all I remeber for now, so please tell me what do you think. Please feel free to post any other concerns regarding 23, too.

So...

For the minors, I think reducing is the way to go. I will take a look at them, if you want.

Feel free to add new music, it's always good As I have you, I was wondering if adding two separate tracks for Peace and War for the Ngomele was ok?

I have neither objections nor suggestions for the feral/barbarians... I don't think the Ngomele would be either of these as they would hunt down animals for food and as they really don't like those petty savages.

One concern though... No wait, I've forgotten. Huh. Crap. Where's my brain?

@sputnik:

I will look at Snarko's mod

The thing you describe is called memory decay and is already in the game, I think... I know there is tags like that. Maybe they are too high, though. I'll check

For the Orcs Pirates, I don't know... IIRC, the AI isn't good with ships and neither are barbarians. But the issue could be caused by the fact that barbarians ships spawn empty.

 

[Ahwaric]

I was more into reducing traits as well. Will take a look then, if I run into any problems I will ask. But if you have any suggestions, feel free to post them.
For now, Vola will be arcane/magic resistant and minor, while Laggs will loose aggressive and just be ingenious/magic resistant/minor. Other will have to check.

I think ngomelle can be at peace with animals - for the same reasons as doviello. Animals hunt each other. Both civs hunt animals, but are close to nature I think - one way or another. Plus most of the animals in civ are predators anyway.

Pirates are not in, but are another thing I would like to add. But I doub they will come with base 0.23

One more thing to ask that I forgot before - with elections added to republic, I think it needs rebalancing. So, should I cut any of the bonuses?

 

[Opera]

I was more into reducing traits as well. Will take a look then, if I run into any problems I will ask. But if you have any suggestions, feel free to post them.
For now, Vola will be arcane/magic resistant and minor, while Laggs will loose aggressive and just be ingenious/magic resistant/minor. Other will have to check.

I'll see

I think ngomelle can be at peace with animals - for the same reasons as doviello. Animals hunt each other. Both civs hunt animals, but are close to nature I think - one way or another. Plus most of the animals in civ are predators anyway.

Yes but they really hunt animals, even in gameplay. That's how they can gather more food, so being at peace with animals would prevent them for using this mechanic (well, they use it on everything but...). Or maybe they could use animals in city to gain food...

Pirates are not in, but are another thing I would like to add. But I doub they will come with base 0.23

That would be nice to have that! I don't know how you would set it up though...

One more thing to ask that I forgot before - with elections added to republic, I think it needs rebalancing. So, should I cut any of the bonuses?

Is there somewhere I can check what those bonuses are?

 

[Ahwaric]

I mean the bonuses listed in civic screen. Currently the republic grants:

+25% great people growth
double growth of cottages, yurts etc.
+ 10% in all cities
+ 20% in all cities
+ 3 in largest cities (number dependant on map size)

New in 0.23:

• Periodical elections that grant one extra trait applied till the next election
• possible are: aggressive, defensive, financial, expansive, spiritual, oragnized and two more that I have forgotten
• 80% for a chosen one of the two possible at every election or 100% to randomly picked from the two

So, the question is, should I remove something from the above list to keep the civic balanced (yet still good and flavourful?).

Edit: I agree on Ngomele and animals. I have yet to make doviello (and probably Ljosalfar) still able to capture animals for totems and combat while at peace with them. When I finish, you will decide if it would be ok for Ngomele, too.

 

[Opera]

Oh, I thought you meant the bonus gained through elections...
In the case of the civic's bonuses, I don't know. I'm not really good at balancing civics, it seems. I need to think about it...

Some diplomay texts need to be done. My dream would be to have diplomacy text for each leader rather than for each civilization, as it is now. For example, all three leaders of the Calabim have the same texts... And some haven't any (mostly the minor leaders added by Orbis: Maer, Vola, etc.).

Maybe we could set up a thread for diplomacy texts... I wonder if you could give it a go, Arkham? As you seem at ease with writing stuff. Of course, anyone could do it. The more people contribute, the better

 

[Wauthan]

Maybe we could set up a thread for diplomacy texts... I wonder if you could give it a go, Arkham? As you seem at ease with writing stuff. Of course, anyone could do it. The more people contribute, the better

I second a thread for diplomacy texts. Heck, I would even write some myself if I knew what kind of texts that were needed and how many they were.

 

[arkham4269]

I second a thread for diplomacy texts. Heck, I would even write some myself if I knew what kind of texts that were needed and how many they were.

I'm sorry, I had an odd dream about France in Africa a few nights ago so I've been playing "France in Africa" in Europa Universalis II. That and playing two quick game of FF & Planetfall to see if they fix the bugs that was causing it to crash withing the first 10 turns.

What is needed?

Actually, on the subject of diplomacy, I was wondering how hard is it to change options due to combat? The reason I ask is because SMAC had a really good function when negotiating peace that Civ IV lacks. Basically in SMAC you might be at war with someone who is also at war with an ally or just a 'friend of convenience' - from a position of strength you could make a condition of the peace treaty be that the Civ stop fighting your ally.

Often times in Civ IV you get offered peace and you want to take it, but in doing so you are merely freeing up your enemy to whale on another Civ. You obviously don't want your enemy to A) wipe out an ally and B) get stronger because of it. Yet unlike SMAC, there isn't a diplomatic option to say, "Oh and stop fighting the Luirchirp while you're at it or it's "GAME ON!" till you die!"

 

[sputnik323]

"Oh and stop fighting the Luirchirp while you're at it or it's "GAME ON!" till you die!"

Diplomacy is one of the weakest(least developed), yet one of the most important parts of Civ IV IMO. I could be fighting 6 wars and the stupid AI wants me to join their war, and when i don't... it's hell to pay

 

[Ahwaric]

Yeah, diplomacy could use a lot of improvement...

Regarding diplomacy texts, feel free to create new thread. I would love to have more flavourfull texts.

Just in case, I am attaching current editor if anyone wants to check what is needed etc. Look at the bottom of the first post of the changelog thread (in a few minutes)

 

[Opera]

Great! Many things will be useful in there, especially the UniqueBuildings and UniqueUnits. More intuitive like that. Do you think you will change the editor before releasing? Knowing if I can begin merging or not...

I'll take care of the diplomacy thread. I like doing big first post with a lot of ambition...

 

[Thonnas]

It might be a lot cooler to just give all the Doviello units Subdue Animal (and totems) instead of making them at peace. (I don't quite get why you'd do that, anyway, but I'm not the most up to date person on everything.)

Ljolsalfar I could see at peace with the animals. Make their Hunters a Tracker UU with mesmerize ability.

Anyone who could fix diplomacy would truly be a great man (or woman, but everyone knows they don't exist on the internet).

 

[Seon]

Yeah, and you say that with a woman writing above you

(it's either that or I am hallucinating again)

 

[jacktannery]

Hello, I have a request. I usually play FF, but I would love to try out OrbisMod. However, the current version (22d I think) requires FFH 0.40 Patch Z, which does not appear to be available anymore. Does anyone know where I can dowload patch Z?

EDIT: finally found it hidden awat in the Welcome to Orbis thread. It's all good.

 

[Rutee]

Why are leaders considered Minor? I understand the purpose oft he trait for Scenario leaders, but.. not elsewhere.

This is /not/ a transparent attempt at a semblance of gender equality, most certainly not motivated by generally prefering to select female characters. Quit asking. :|

In a related sidenote, I did not notice until Orbis that Mahala was female. I thought Rule 63 was in effect until I actually looked closer at the portrait in FFH2. I'm guessing that was why the portrait was changed in the first place?