MLDR003 - NOW in the big D

I haven't played yet, likely tonight. I did spend time reviewing the map however. NP's suggestion for 2 additional cities was not implemented. If there are any remaining concerns regarding our production capabilities for the future then we should jump the palace now. This needs to happen in the first 2 turns and can be done by swaping the palace prebuild to the military academy and then rushing the palace. I'd like to suggest Edrine. Else this issue can be put to rest or the palace can be jumped at a later time.

I'll be trying to pillage Rome's saltpeter this round. That should open the doors somewhat for Steve. With Nationalism we can draft, but need barracks and cities over size 6 to do so. So I'll be doing some drafting in the more corrupt cities. Courthouses and libraries are needed for the obvious reasons but I doubt I will be able to get to these. Lots of details to go on about but thats it for now.
 
Play now! NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW! Ahem, sorry :blush:

And don't leave Steve any troops...make him build his own :D
 
Originally posted by Arizona_Steve
@ Coffee - Leave me some troops this time...

He can not lose all 37 Sipahi, or :rolleyes: :D

I agree that we take Hanni next, slowing the tech pace is key in war games, that was one reason I made the current MAs against Rome.
That and the fact that we don't have to worry about a dogpile against us.

@Coffee: I think our main short-term goal is to get ToE, Hoover and Industrialization for factories, then RP. We could move the palace with the current GL and get ToE with the next (I give us 95% of getting another in time, given the number of Roman units we still have to kill)
But I did not want to decide this issue myself, that's why I saved the leader.
 
^^That'd be an interesting variant; AW, but the player is required to disband all offensive troops at the start of his turn...
Ack! Too many ideas!
 
I think that we are too close to ToE to use the leader for a palace jump. I have thought myself about moving the palace to Edrine but at this juncture securing ToE would lock the game. If you want to move the palace to Edrine then do it the old fahioned way and start the build by hand. If we get ToE and Hoover's and still have a GL around then we could swap Edrine to a factory build it and then rush the palace.

At this point in the tech tree it branches back out. This is usually where the non-AI player gets behind in Deity if there is only one AI player driving the tech. Let's not let that happen (Even though we sould most likely still win anyway).
 
ChrTh, if I played that variant I would just suicide every offensive unit in the last two turns and make sure fresh replacements were due on the first turn for the like person. Don't know how much fun it would be though.
 
Ok -- I'll save the gl.

We are at that all important tech turning point. I think we need some libraries/universities to research scientific method and whatever else on our own if necessary.

I'm inclined to push improvements but this round I'll try to steel industrialization and cash rush our UU where possible.

How far I advance will depend on Romes 2nd saltpeter source. I need to trade maps to see if its hooked up. A spy would be handy right now. Otherwise its 10t +\- to pillage. Should have it up in about 6 hours.
 
I just looked at the save, and the Aztecs and Iroqi have Nationalism already anyway, so the argument over who to fight next is moot :)
 
1050 - 0
Rush 4 barracks for 400g -> setup for drafting, mm for food.
draft 2 rifles.
trade wm's -> best guess is Rome has only the 1 salt source hooked up.
upgrade our last galley
swap 2 corrupt cities to settlers
rush cannon -> to start workers

1060 - 1
Draft some citizens.
Lose 2 UU to 3 romans
Most UU have healed, upgrade 3 knights, looks good to start.

1070 - 2
We take a hit from Roman cavs. Lose 1 uu + 1 rifle. The rng favors rome.
Rome has rifles.
Better; kill 7 cav + 2 rifle, capture Jaipur (Ivory), lose 1 uu.
I do a careful steal and get Ind from carthage for 1869g. Carthage has Sanitation
I capture Kolhapur -> no resistance here.
Swap top 7 cities to factories.
Getting very thin on defenders.

1080 - 3
Pillage Roman salt.
Some AI settlers on route, send 2 to fill in the gaps, have a spare
Rush the factory in Bursa.
Capture Hyderabad -> dyes

1090 - 4
Capture New Bombay -> choke point, lost 4 uu getting it and bypassed 4 Roman cities in old India.
Rush factory in Uskudar.
Sell Abu military tradition and Hiawatha industrialization for a song.
I send the army to New Bombay and a few other dishes.

1100 - 5
Rush factories in Istanbul + Iznik -> uu each 2t during the ga. Might not make up the loses.
Roman salt is well and truly cut, should be limited problems with cavs.
Carthage has violated our property.

1110 - 6
Rush the factory in Edrine.
Draft 2 more rifles.

1120 - 7
Capture Chittagong - wines, also captured Punjab in earlier turns.
Rush the factory in Konya.
Hiawatha is up communism, Carthage is up The Corp.

1130 - 8
Our golden age ends.
Capture New Madras + Bengal

1140 - 9

1150 - 10
The action is at New Bombay and New Bangalore. More later, this was a long set of turns.

Suggest stealing Communism "carefully" from the Iroquios next turn.

Captured 8 cities, stole Industrialization & built 7 factories -> have 31 UU left. :p

Game
 
Excellent progress. :goodjob: With factories in place we don't have much to fear. I notice that our army is already described as strong relative to Rome's.

A minor suggestion: Kafa has a courthouse to control its corruption, so it's worth treating it as a serious city and switching to a factory there. I'd also be inclined to try to get real production out of Denizli, giving it a courthouse and then a factory, despite its limitations.

I think we should approach the question of our next opponent by asking where we want our ferry route to the other continent to run. There are no really good choices here--i.e., no five-tile narrows--but the six-tile Mugla-Oil Springs run looks better than anything else. On those grounds, I'd nominate the Iroquois.
 
Good progress, Coffee.

tech: Industr. is an important tech, so the risk by stealing it was well justified, same thing with Nationalism.
However, I suggest that we don't test our luck more than necessary and concentrate our efforts on our main goal SciM.

Next target: I still favor Hanni as the tech leader. We could get a RoP with the Aztecs for the initial troop-positioning and use one or two mountain tiles as landing points. I have done a lot of invasions because continents was may favored map type and from the layout of Hanni's civ I'm sure that we will have no problems as long as we have enough art. and defensive units.
 
Good luck, we could really us some improvements. Per Belisar maybe skip the steal and use the cash for improvements instead. However a steal from the Iro is a good bet and police stations are very useful. We just need to build them.

Carthage is very active, I'm not sure but they might be in their GA. Otherwise our UU is somewhat spread out. The choke point was expensive to get and hold. Rome has been sending 4 & 5 units there latley. I just got some cannon etc over there these last turns. Hope the leave is satisfactory.

At this time I'm inclined to agree with NP on the Iro. I'd like to see how the playout before commiting.
 
A couple of points, first, we have the majrity of the luxes. We need to use this to our advantage in both getting tech and alliances. Right now there is at least 100gpt on the table if we sell luxes to others.

Second, Carthage is building hospitals, at least two of their cities are over size 12. This will make them vault ahead as they will get the bonus production and more tiles worked. I also saw only one native lux for them. If their cites get too big and we pull the lux rug out from under them they will have to turn half their citizens into clowns to keep the peace. It will hasten them dropping into communism.

The Arabs are behind and are unlikely to be able to go anywhere anytime soon. The Iroquois and Aztecs aren't as strong as Carthage and arent' scientific.

I would still vote to take out Carthage next as it will clean off our landmass and take out the biggest threat to us. Remeber, all options for victory are open. I don't want to see Carthage shoot ahead and then build the UN. Of course, when we get the "Carthage has started building the UN" message that would definitely paint a big bullseye on their forehead.
 
(0) Check out the tech situation - we are three techs behind Catharge (Communism, The Corporation, Sanitation) and one tech behind the Iroquois (Communism). We are researching Sanitation, and I wonder why we didn't go the Electricity - Scientific Method route, seeing as this is a low priority research target for the AI's.
I decide against any attempts to steal Communism right now - there is nothing to trade it for.
Begin building libraries in our core - one city at a time.

IBT:
The Iroquois sink a roman galley. I hope it was full of troops.

(1) 1160AD
It takes TWO sipahi to kill a longbow. Unfortunately the first one doesn't retreat. :(
New Bangalore is taken, killing an elite rifleman with no losses. I'm going to settler-abandon it once it's starved to two citizens, as we can get two excellent cities in there, and there is another settler waiting in Sinop.

IBT:
Rebel's reward riots. It's a 1/1 town right now, so I'm not too worried. Taxman hired.

(2) 1170AD
We're workin' on the railroad...

IBT:

(3) 1180AD
Ganges is captured from the Romans.
New Delhi is captured from the Romans.
Settler rushed in New Bangalore.
Catharge still have a monopoly on The Corporation, I'm hoping someone else gets it soon.

IBT:
Rome gets lucky with the RNG and takes back New Delhi, killing two sipahi. I have more outside the city though.
New Bangalore is abandoned.
The snivelling Iroquois sign peace with Rome.

(4) 1190AD
New Dehli is taken back with no losses. Nice of them to leave their workers there :smoke:
Dyes and Ivory to the Iroquois to get them fighting Rome again.

IBT:

(5) 1200AD
New Arizonaville founded.

IBT: Kafa riots after growing and we get... FOUR palace expansions.
Catharge signs peace with Rome. Not that it will last for long.

(6) 1210AD
Send some dyes to Hannibal to get him to declare on the Romans again.
Aurelianorum destroyed. Need a settler.
Steveopolis founded. This is a first ring city.
Buy Sanitation for dyes + ivory + 360 gold from the Aztecs. Begin research on Electricity.

IBT:
Renew alliances with the Aztecs and Arabs, at no cost.

(7) 1220AD
Syracuse is captured. There was only one rifleman defending. It looks like their only source of coal has been taken. Checking the foreign advisor screen confirms that this is indeed the case.
Find a couple of cities producing around 40 shields/turn and switch them to rifleman production. We are getting short on defence.
Rush a settler in Mugla to repopulate the open land near there, as Roman cities are autorazed.
Upgrade that irritating spearman sitting in Istanbul.

IBT:
It looks like Rome is totally out of gas. One rifleman moved. After that, nothing.

(8) 1230AD
Forced to clean up orange goo near Iznik.
Byzantium is captured, one sipahi lost.

IBT:
One puny attempt to pillage with a catapault.

(9) 1240AD
The aforementioned catapault is captured.
Brundisium is captured.

IBT:
Catharge completes Universal Sufferage.

(10) 1250AD
I get a bit ambitious, and attempt to take Palmyra. I turn out to be one unit short, and would've taken the city had it not been for a longbow that had forced a sipahi to retreat on the previous interturn.

I made some significant gains, and have shifted a few 40 shield/turn cities to Rifle production to consolidate our new holdings.
Built a few libraries in our core.
We do have one problem. Catharge STILL have a monopoly on The Corporation, which is bad in two ways. Firstly it allows them to buils Stock Exchanges and Wall Street, and secondly, it's a gateway to a whole slew of techs. For all we know they may have Steel and Refining, and are on their way to tanks. I did buy Sanitation, so that I could head down the Electricity line, but we only have 19 turns left on the palace in Sinop.
I kept all alliances in place, I think it will take more than 20 turns to destroy Rome.

New Ottoman Territory
MLDR03_1250.jpg


And of course, the save
 
Looking at the save, I'd have to say that Carthago delenda est! (damn, I should've used the 4000 BC of this game in CTR7!). It'll be easy to start war with them, as they have Malacca(sp?) in the former Indian territory, plus they've taken a few cities in the northern Roman territory (whoops, sorry, didn't realize these were yours). Once we finish Rome, I say we keep going :hammer:
 
1250 AD (0)
Why do we have so many Sipahi sitting idol in ex-Indian towns. I wake up eight Sipahi and send them forward. There are four more but I need rifles there first. i swap Istanbul and Bursa to hospitals. Wake up some cannon and move them forward. Swap Denizli to a courthouse. I am tempted to aboandon Ellipi and move it one square south. With this in mind I rush the settler in Ellipi. I move a sipahi to help cover the settler close to the Romans.
(I) It is good I moved the Sipahi. I Longbow took out the rifle and then an elite sipahi survives a rifle assual by 1 hp. Sometimes it is better to be lucky than good. The Arabs pound the couast and the Iroquios are sending lots of ships down the inner coast.

1255 AD (1)
Palmara falls with only two attacks. We get another worker and a cat.I pick off some stray Roman rifles and assemble the troops for the next city.
(I)Rome lost three cities in their core and we may not beat the AIs to all the wine.

1260 AD (2)
We are off to the races. I have every available sipahi press forward.
(I) Rome loses Jerusalem.

1265 AD (3)
We raze Lugudum and advance on Pisae. I capture it and hope to hold it. It is size 1 and will help to get a settler up to replace Rome. We get a worker and another cat. We also take the city of New Karachi and keep it as it also is size 1. I can finally move the rifles to the choke point mountain and stop anymore Carthage Cav from getting past. I trade the Iroquois wines, silks, WM and 340g for espionage. Since it looks like Espionage was the next tech taken I bleed some shields off the palace by swapping to the militery academy and back. This gives us another 17 turns on the two lasat techs. I swap Uskadur to the Intelligence Agency.
(I) Nada

1270 AD (4)
Our Sipahi push on towards CeasarAugusta and it is a good thing as there is a hurt Casrthage Cav outside of the city. This city has an Ivory in its borders. We take Antium, which is size three but I can' abandon it as it will slow us down on the march to rome. I set it to starve and cross my fingers. I can't stand to wait any longer and steal Corporation from Carthage.
(I) The Iroquois attack Caesaraugusta and the Carthigians withdraw thier hurt units.

1275 AD (5)
We push forward and capture Caesaraugusta out from under both Ais noses. That denies them the ivory. We advance on Rome and take out the first two rifles, more troops to arrive and attack next turn. I don't want to weaken it so bad someone else can steal it from us. Rome is down to 7 cities and I don't think it will last much beyond my turn. The die is cast as we have deals beyond that with everyone but Carthage.
(I) It is a good thing I didn't attack with the last two sipahi at Rome, someone is attacking from the other side.

1280 AD (6)
we take Nicomedia and two more workers. We take Rome and I am forced to keep it as well. It has Sun Tzu's and this will help us tremenously. We press on and take Viroconium and Cop's. this also seals the last wine and we have made a clean sweep of the luxes to be had. Dang, at least two civs have electricity. Instead of making a deal with Carthage we do the deed with the Aztecs and give them silks, ivory, 483g and 83gpt for it. That leaves us down comunism and refining to the Iroquois and Carthage, communism to the Aztecs and we are ahead of the poor Arabs. Rome is down to 4 cities. I will see how well we do at keeping Rome before I sell off all our Rax.
(I) Darn, Carthage and the Aztec sigh an MPP. It is going to cost us a bit to break that one.

1285 AD (7)
We advance on Lutetia. The resistance in Rome ended but we are resting this turn. Kill two stray rifles and a Longbow. The Aztecs will take an MPP with us straight up. If we take it and then declare on Carthage, we will ahve to let them get in the first blow. I go ahead and take it. He dives us 31g and 15gpt to boot. Interestingly enough, Carthage is is Anarchy.
(I) The Iroquois break our deal with them and make peace with Rome. So do the Aztecs.

1290 AD (8)
We raze Veii and get 6 workers and one cat. We then take Lutetia and complete the sweep up the right side. rome only has two cities left and we are baring down on one of them. Hopefully they won't survive my turn. I ahve upgraded alll the troops one the island to rifles and returned them to their cities.
(I) Not much, we are racing the Carthagians t the last Roman cities but they have to walk and we are riding.

1295 AD (9)
We advance on Cumae. All else is calm.
(I) Is Carthage planning to sneak attack us. They move 3 Cav out of Jerusalem towards Caesaraugsta. I will leave it defended by a single Sipahi and hope that is indeed their plan. I have a settler nearby and won't mind losing one city if it means they trip the MPP with the Aztecs in our favor. We get our first stock exchange. Jaipur riots.

1300 AD (10)
I attack Cumae, but it survives by 2HP. I left Rome with only 2 cities. Watch for the Carthage sneak attack out of Jerusalem. Let them do it. There is also a Carthage rifle near Tunceli that could grab some slaves. Most of our core cities have been catching up and infrastructure, so I didn't build a lot of rifles to cover the cities. We have enough to finish Rome and clean our landmass of Carthage cities but we will have to build a navy if we are going to carry it across the sea. We should be close to enough hospitals to start Battlefield medicine and enough Stockexchanges to start Wall Street. The Intellegence Agency completes in 2 turns and we have 29 more on the palace. We are 38 turns away from SciMeth, but someone else will get it before us. Ellipi will be ready to rush its last settler next turn and move to the south. We should also be able to plant a spy inside of Carthage to see what they have. Don't forget to save enough lux and gpt to by or steal SciMeth when it comes up.

The hit list:
1) Babylon - gone
2) India - gone
3) Rome - 2CC
4) Carthage - In the bullseye.
5) Iroquois, Aztecs (Fielders choice)
7) Arabia

NorthernPike (up)
CtrTh (on deck)
Belisar
Coffee
Arizona_Steve
Meldor

The Fall of the Roman Empire
 
BTW, I didn't sell the Raxs off yet as I didn't get to finish Rome. I would have hated to sell them off and then have Rome flip.
 
I see we are making very good progress :goodjob: shame on me that I needed the same amount of time for playing my 10 turns than the rest of the team needed for 30 :rolleyes:

Now a nice, good planed invasion of Hanni and we are set for victory. I like Meldor's idea of denying him luxes, we should definitely try to start a dogpile on him.
 
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