ChrTh
Happy Yule!
I got it. Will be playing today. Monitor thread for questions after I look at the save 
MLDR003 - NOW in the big D
- Thread starter meldor
- Start date
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
Turn 0 -- 1300 AD
Everything looks good...might be a long interturn if Carthage does attack. I upgrade the Pike in Dyes Peak to Rifle, just in case Malaca sends troops in that direction. I bring a whole bunch of Sipahi from Byzantium to outside Cumae in order to assist with (hopefully) dealing the killing blow to Rome next turn. I see the Tecs are in an MPP with both us and Carthage, so yep, let's hope they attack us first...
Oy, there's a ton of naval activity, and Arabia is nice enough to take out the elite longbow with a swordsman. Carthage withdraws its troops
Turn 1 -- 1305 AD
Syracuse riots; I hire a taxman.
Assault on CUmae. We lose a Sipahi, but defeat 3 rifles and a longbow to take it. I install a new governor in order to make it easier to get troops to Hispalis (which may be impossible anyway). I defend it with wounded troops; hopefully it won't flip before Hispalis falls (I think Rome is last in the turn rotation, so unless the RNG is unlucky towards Carth...)
Yep, we can't reach Hispalis, blocked by an Arabian Sword and Carthaginian Cav.
Sivas is built, Library ordered up.
I've been working on the railroad, all the live long 5 year period...
IT: Aztecs declare war on Iroqi...for a brief second, I thought our MPP had been tripped, but no, it was a straight-up assault.
Carthage is unable to take Hispalis
... however, they land a gazillion troops there to try again next turn....hrmmm, we're going to need to get our Sipahi ready for that stack.
Turn 2 -- 1310 AD
We build Intelligence Agency in Uskudar.
More railroading. Carthage and Aztecs have Steel, but Iroqi do not.
140gpt+1125 to Aztecs for Steel. I trade Steel plus a couple lux to Iroqi for Refining. I trade Indus+Elec to Arabs for Communism and all their gold. Tech parity is achieved.
We have 3 sources of Oil hooked up, and at least 2 more not hooked up.
IT:
Carthage takes Hispalis, the Romans are no more.
We're at war with the Iroqi! Our MPP with the Aztecs is triggered! Carthage declares war on the Iroqi as well!
Ok me boyos, decision time. Technically we don't need to attack Carthage at this point, as Carthage, Iroqi, and Aztecs were a pick 'em...plus everyone has already ganged up on Hi. What do we do? Do we risk a World War where everyone is fighting everyone ('cept Aztecs v Carthage) and allow Arabia to take the lead?!? Do we just clean off our continent (hoping the stack of wounding (not big enough to be considered stack of death) in Hispalis can be easily dispatched) before going overseas?
BTW, our reputation is shot. I wasn't thinking when I made the deal with Iroqi (i.e.
)
Here's the save in case anyone wants to look at it (it's the beginning of the turn):
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/MLDR3_1315AD.SAV
OMT: Did I accidentally do an exploit?
Do I need to replay my previous turn and not do the deal with the Iroqi?
Everything looks good...might be a long interturn if Carthage does attack. I upgrade the Pike in Dyes Peak to Rifle, just in case Malaca sends troops in that direction. I bring a whole bunch of Sipahi from Byzantium to outside Cumae in order to assist with (hopefully) dealing the killing blow to Rome next turn. I see the Tecs are in an MPP with both us and Carthage, so yep, let's hope they attack us first...
Oy, there's a ton of naval activity, and Arabia is nice enough to take out the elite longbow with a swordsman. Carthage withdraws its troops
Turn 1 -- 1305 AD
Syracuse riots; I hire a taxman.
Assault on CUmae. We lose a Sipahi, but defeat 3 rifles and a longbow to take it. I install a new governor in order to make it easier to get troops to Hispalis (which may be impossible anyway). I defend it with wounded troops; hopefully it won't flip before Hispalis falls (I think Rome is last in the turn rotation, so unless the RNG is unlucky towards Carth...)
Yep, we can't reach Hispalis, blocked by an Arabian Sword and Carthaginian Cav.
Sivas is built, Library ordered up.
I've been working on the railroad, all the live long 5 year period...
IT: Aztecs declare war on Iroqi...for a brief second, I thought our MPP had been tripped, but no, it was a straight-up assault.
Carthage is unable to take Hispalis
... however, they land a gazillion troops there to try again next turn....hrmmm, we're going to need to get our Sipahi ready for that stack.Turn 2 -- 1310 AD
We build Intelligence Agency in Uskudar.
More railroading. Carthage and Aztecs have Steel, but Iroqi do not.
140gpt+1125 to Aztecs for Steel. I trade Steel plus a couple lux to Iroqi for Refining. I trade Indus+Elec to Arabs for Communism and all their gold. Tech parity is achieved.
We have 3 sources of Oil hooked up, and at least 2 more not hooked up.
IT:
Carthage takes Hispalis, the Romans are no more.
We're at war with the Iroqi! Our MPP with the Aztecs is triggered! Carthage declares war on the Iroqi as well!
Ok me boyos, decision time. Technically we don't need to attack Carthage at this point, as Carthage, Iroqi, and Aztecs were a pick 'em...plus everyone has already ganged up on Hi. What do we do? Do we risk a World War where everyone is fighting everyone ('cept Aztecs v Carthage) and allow Arabia to take the lead?!? Do we just clean off our continent (hoping the stack of wounding (not big enough to be considered stack of death) in Hispalis can be easily dispatched) before going overseas?
BTW, our reputation is shot. I wasn't thinking when I made the deal with Iroqi (i.e.
)Here's the save in case anyone wants to look at it (it's the beginning of the turn):
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/MLDR3_1315AD.SAV
OMT: Did I accidentally do an exploit?
Do I need to replay my previous turn and not do the deal with the Iroqi?meldor
Deity
The first question is why did you play? I turn order has NP playing before you. So now we must put it to the group as to what to do.
I am inclined to go ahead and except the turns you did as it has alreay been posted. As far as the ruined rep goes, it would have to stand. That would be my fault as much as yours. I shouldn't have signed the MPP, I should have waited. The first thing we should do is turn the research on SciMeth up to max. Unless we declare war on someone else to beat the tech out of them, that appears to be the only way we will be able to get it. It also seems that we will be doing self research from this point even if we didn't want to.
What do the rest of you think?
I am inclined to go ahead and except the turns you did as it has alreay been posted. As far as the ruined rep goes, it would have to stand. That would be my fault as much as yours. I shouldn't have signed the MPP, I should have waited. The first thing we should do is turn the research on SciMeth up to max. Unless we declare war on someone else to beat the tech out of them, that appears to be the only way we will be able to get it. It also seems that we will be doing self research from this point even if we didn't want to.
What do the rest of you think?
Arizona_Steve
King
A classic case of why I will NEVER sign an MPP. Although it would've been a great idea had Catharge sneak-attacked us, the simple fact is that there are too many variables to consider (particularly with an unpredictable AI that is inclined to make some bone-headed moves), and just one war that we are not expecting is enough to cause unintended deal-breaking and make it harder for us to keep up in tech.
Just my 2c, I fully understand why Meldor signed that MPP. If it had been me, I would've been more inclined to declare on Carthage, then bribe the Aztecs into breaking their MPP. More cost to us, but it would be Montezuma that had the stain on his reputation.
Just my 2c, I fully understand why Meldor signed that MPP. If it had been me, I would've been more inclined to declare on Carthage, then bribe the Aztecs into breaking their MPP. More cost to us, but it would be Montezuma that had the stain on his reputation.
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
Ok, I checked the original save, and our rep would've been shot anyway as we still had an outstanding deal with the Iroqi...so I'm tending towards thinking I don't need to replay the next turn. However, I'll let meldor decide.
Here's are our options:
1) Just fight the Iroqis
2) Either declare war on Carthage or have them declare on us, but don't attack them yet. Then, when they attack us during our turn, the Aztecs will be on our side
3) Start war with Carthage, screw the MPP, and go to war with Iroqi, Aztecs, and Carthage ... and start researching Sci Meth on our own.
Actually, iirc, if we get them to declare on us, we don't trigger the MPP by attacking Carthage, right?
Here's are our options:
1) Just fight the Iroqis
2) Either declare war on Carthage or have them declare on us, but don't attack them yet. Then, when they attack us during our turn, the Aztecs will be on our side
3) Start war with Carthage, screw the MPP, and go to war with Iroqi, Aztecs, and Carthage ... and start researching Sci Meth on our own.
Actually, iirc, if we get them to declare on us, we don't trigger the MPP by attacking Carthage, right?
Arizona_Steve
King
Nope. I believe that as long as you attack units in your territory (or neutral ground??) you won't trigger the MPP. If you attack in enemy territory, the MPP will be triggered.
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
WHOOPS...I misread the turn order
This is what happens when I'm up at 7am
This is what happens when I'm up at 7am
Arizona_Steve
King
As for attacking, it depends on the rules. Since we have the option to attack any of three AI's, would it be possible to capture enough Iroquois cities to get us a supply line from the nearest point of land (currently in Iroquois territory) to the Carthage border, then use this supply line to attack Catharge (after signing peace with Hiawatha)?
This would greatly reduce the risk to our navy when ferrying troops from the mainland.
This would greatly reduce the risk to our navy when ferrying troops from the mainland.
meldor
Deity
I seems that everyone iis inclined to go with what has been played so with that in mind.
The ;mistake I made with the MPP was to not get the Aztecs and the Iroquios back into the war with Rome and have them busy with that instead of woorying about each other.
Unless we declare war on Carthage the turn that Rome is axed or the next turn since it occured in the inter turn, then we will have to go with eliminating the Iroquois as the next victim. If we do declare on Carthage then we must be sure that they trip the MPP and not us.
BTW, I agree that the MPP was a boneheaded move. If I hadn't been trying to gget the game up and posted last night I would have taken more time to think things through, so a big part of the blame goes to me. If we get ToE I think it won't matter anyway.
The ;mistake I made with the MPP was to not get the Aztecs and the Iroquios back into the war with Rome and have them busy with that instead of woorying about each other.
Unless we declare war on Carthage the turn that Rome is axed or the next turn since it occured in the inter turn, then we will have to go with eliminating the Iroquois as the next victim. If we do declare on Carthage then we must be sure that they trip the MPP and not us.
BTW, I agree that the MPP was a boneheaded move. If I hadn't been trying to gget the game up and posted last night I would have taken more time to think things through, so a big part of the blame goes to me. If we get ToE I think it won't matter anyway.
Coffee
Cdn Expat
We can still trade luxuries for gpt for example. We can't trade gpt/lux for tech. We could trade lump sum cash for tech. We should plant spies so we can investigate cities etc during war.
First, I really think we shouldn't replay any turn s, would be against the spirit of an SG.
Second, there is also no need to declare against more than one opponent. The Iros are geographically near our boarders so it's no big deal that they are next on our list, should be well within the variant.
MPPs are a dangerous thing but in some situations I would sign them too. One has to be carefull with deals with the rest of the AIs, the potential victims of one's partner.
The shot reputation is not ideal, but it happens in at least 50% of my own games. As Coffee said, as long as we have enough cash we can trade for techs and in some situations steals are another possibility.
My suggestion would be to avoid a WW situation and continue concentrating on one opponent by having trading partners available as long as possible.
By the time we have the majority of our forces operating on the other landmass (conquered one AI, no matter which) we have won the game.
Belisar
Second, there is also no need to declare against more than one opponent. The Iros are geographically near our boarders so it's no big deal that they are next on our list, should be well within the variant.
MPPs are a dangerous thing but in some situations I would sign them too. One has to be carefull with deals with the rest of the AIs, the potential victims of one's partner.
The shot reputation is not ideal, but it happens in at least 50% of my own games. As Coffee said, as long as we have enough cash we can trade for techs and in some situations steals are another possibility.
My suggestion would be to avoid a WW situation and continue concentrating on one opponent by having trading partners available as long as possible.
By the time we have the majority of our forces operating on the other landmass (conquered one AI, no matter which) we have won the game.
Belisar
Northern Pike
Deity
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2003
- Messages
- 6,673
Wow, it's been an eventful thirty hours since my last post--mostly good events. 
ChrTh, I'm not in a good position to play right now anyway, so let's just swap. Complete your ten turns, if that suits you, and then I'll play mine.
I agree with Belisar: since circumstances have presented us with an Iroquois war, let's just fight that one for the moment. We'll probably be making a lot of attempts to steal technology now, so other wars may come along quickly enough.
To state the glaringly obvious, we have to start putting together some kind of transport fleet. Kish could switch from its present build and rush a galleon, for a start.
ChrTh, I'm not in a good position to play right now anyway, so let's just swap. Complete your ten turns, if that suits you, and then I'll play mine.
I agree with Belisar: since circumstances have presented us with an Iroquois war, let's just fight that one for the moment. We'll probably be making a lot of attempts to steal technology now, so other wars may come along quickly enough.
To state the glaringly obvious, we have to start putting together some kind of transport fleet. Kish could switch from its present build and rush a galleon, for a start.
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
Ok, NP, we can swap 
(I'm really sorry about the screw-up...I guess I just really wanted to play!)
I'm going to take (raze?) Neapolis, which will eliminate the Iroqi on our continent, and then I'll concentrate on navy and infra. Raising science doesn't help, so I'll keep on SciMeth. Cash is a little low due to the 2-fer, so I'll save for a few turns.
Now to move the cannons into position to fire at the Iroqi ships ...
(I'm really sorry about the screw-up...I guess I just really wanted to play!)I'm going to take (raze?) Neapolis, which will eliminate the Iroqi on our continent, and then I'll concentrate on navy and infra. Raising science doesn't help, so I'll keep on SciMeth. Cash is a little low due to the 2-fer, so I'll save for a few turns.
Now to move the cannons into position to fire at the Iroqi ships ...
Coffee
Cdn Expat
Lets be carefull about the steals. We don't want to get caught.
Northern Pike
Deity
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2003
- Messages
- 6,673
No problem, ChrTh. Since you can play today, the accidental swap should speed things up.
meldor
Deity
It si beter to be in an SG where everyone can't wait to play than to be in one in which no one seems to want to play. I ahve been in both. The fact that we had three people play in the same day says that this is at least an enjoyable variant. Maybe the next step is to be at war with two AI's at a time....hmmmm
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
Ok, it's turn 9, not much news to report except:
"RP is available. Since I don't expect us to have finished off the Iroqi in 20 turns, I can trade 4 lux and 100 gold to Carthage for it."
Should I? On the one hand, we're giving Carthage 4 luxes...on the other hand, we're getting RP for a song, and we're saving our cash for Sci Meth (still not available). What do y'all think?
"RP is available. Since I don't expect us to have finished off the Iroqi in 20 turns, I can trade 4 lux and 100 gold to Carthage for it."
Should I? On the one hand, we're giving Carthage 4 luxes...on the other hand, we're getting RP for a song, and we're saving our cash for Sci Meth (still not available). What do y'all think?
The question is: do we need it immediately, I mean, do we have the transport capability and the units to start the invasion now?
We need inf. and art. one turn before our ships leave the port, also don't forget the high upgrade costs.
We need inf. and art. one turn before our ships leave the port, also don't forget the high upgrade costs.
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
@Belisar: My concern is that the Iroqi have it. Granted, we could probably be able to start taking them out, but Sipahi vs Infantry is a losing proposition for us, and cannons aren't as reliable as artillery. We'd also know who has rubber, and plan our assault on the Iroqi mainland appropriately.
