MLDR003 - NOW in the big D

Umm... errm... got it...

Yikes! Doesn't look too good. The one thing in our favour is that the babylon units are not stacked, so the barracks in Istanbul (there is a barracks, right?) will heal the units between attacks.

Tech should be left on Mathematics - we NEED the catapaults, however, I'll be prioritizing purchases of The Wheel and Horseback Riding, followed by Literature (cheap libraries for scientific civs).

BTW. What happened to the luxuries? We're going to have a helluva time keeping our citizens happy.
 
I wonder who built the rax in Istanbul :mischief:
only kidding ;)
 
Re: Writing

It was going to cost us our entire treasury to get Writing at the point I got IW, so we wouldn't have been able to afford an Embassy as well. The problem with India is that I think that they're not close enough to be able to effectively help us with Babylon.

IW was admittedly a gambit. We're fortunate on its location, but we need to get our territory to expand to grab it (and road it).
 
Good job ChrTh, I had a feeling it would be tough.

About Bursa, I'd like to suggest swapping Bursa to a raxs. Bursa and Istanbul together will give us the production we need. Also, suggest mining the cow grassland there. Quality might be a luxury right now so the barracks are optional. As long as we can field more defenders than they can kill with a single SoD we will be Ok.

Like Lee says on the Babs golden age.

Edit: If necessary merge our worker with Bursa. You want to get 5spt. An additional option is to build reg archers in Adriene to use as cannon fodder.
 
I might do this

Bursa -> mine grassland, swap to spear, merge worker -> mm for 5spt
Adirene -> swap to worker ->mm for 2spt -> warriors for pillaging
Istanbul -> archers

Your call Arizona_Steve -> good luck and no need to rush it.
 
Originally posted by meldor


Maybe take a chance and use a spear to kill the archer outside of Istanbul. It would have a turn leeway to get back to the city.



But we would have a better than 15% chance of losing Istanbul's only spearman in this attack, at which point we could resign. I don't think our position is nearly bad enough to justify desperate play like this.

I know that the trade-offs are agonizing in a situation like this, but I think walls are an absolutely essential build in Istanbul. With veteran (right now, elite) spearmen fortified behind walls, we could start killing off Bowmen at the very favourable ratio we need to achieve to survive. By contrast, spending too many resources on archers, which we could only safely use to attack redlined Bowmen stacked with other redlined Bowmen, might doom us.

I'd also like to get walls built in Erdine while the Babylonians aren't attacking us there. The multiplier effect of walls, which cost as much as one cheap unit and then give every unit in a city a much better chance of survival, is just enormous when one's under heavy attack.
 
Well, what we really need are cats. Between then and now its a chess game. Some warriors drawing Bab bows away from Istanbul with Bursa reinforcing Istanbul will buy us some time. Kicking science up might help but I doubt it. Should try for the sake of completeness though. My nickel.

I'm not disputing the value of walls and if the situation is ripe use it. I haven't seen the map so I guess my nickel is only worth 2 cents. ;)
 
Originally posted by Northern Pike
But we would have a better than 15% chance of losing Istanbul's only spearman in this attack, at which point we could resign. I don't think our position is nearly bad enough to justify desperate play like this.
The unit in Istanbul is set to build in two. Not having looked at the save, I would suggest switching off the wheat to say the forest to complete the unit in 1 turn, take the 80+% chance to kill their elite 1 hp bowman and if the odds are with us the spear steps back into the city and heals while the city gets covered by the unit that completes. Best case, we have two units and they don't have an elite, worst case we have one unit and the elite still has to move off to heal.

I don't consider play like this to be desperate, I consider it smart. That elite bowman can come back to haunt us. Killing it improves our longterm chances.

This is predicated on the unit being able to build in Istanbul next turn instead of in two.
 
There are a lot of good options here. I doubt you will go wrong using any of them. Using the warriors from Bursa and Adriene has not been mentioned yet, so I'll add them to the list.
 
I looked at the save, two things.

1) There is a warrior under the spear so Istanbul has two defenders.

2) There is a Bab settler/spear pair on the mountain south of Edrine. We hae an elite warrior there that could either attach reg bowmen as they go by (between warriors) or go try and get us two slaves.
 
(0) 1750BC:
Take some time to look at the situation. There's not a good view to the South, due to the green smog eminating from Babylonian underwear. Seems that the gas clouds have been getting to their troops, as you'll see below.
India has contact with Rome, and will sell it to us for 115 gold. They will also sell us The Wheel for 111 gold. There is no way that we can get Mathematics in less than 21 turns without running a deficit, so I leave science at 10%. Buying contact with Rome would make known techs cheaper to buy, but on the other hand, India may well sell contact with us to Rome.
111 gold goes to India for The Wheel. Might as well see where the horses are. The news is good, there's some right outside Istanbul.
Istanbul build changed to spearman. The archer that was being trained there would be great for killing approaching troops, but would be left exposed after attacking.
Edrine build changed to walls (from spearman).
Bursa build changed to Barracks from granary. With no luxuries and a raging war, we need units, not growth. The city grows in 4 turns, so I'll mine another plain to get it to 5 shields per turn.
I'd like to nail that redlined bowman with the warrior in Istanbul to prevent him from pillaging, but decide against it. I'm almost scared to hit the spacebar, but I do it nonetheless, and...

IBT:
No attacks this turn, and the redlined bowman moves away from Istanbul without pillaging. The babylonians build Eridu next to a second source of iron. We will need to take this city quickly, before they connect their iron and start throwing swordsmen at us. There is also a second spearman/settler pair heading to the coast West of Edrine.

(1) 1725BC
Worker irrigates a second cow at Bursa, starts roading that tile.

IBT:
Again no attacks this turn, although Babylon's units begin to congregate outside Istanbul. A second spear completes there, bring the garrison to two spears (one elite, one vet) and one regular warrior. Walls are started, due in 3 turns.

(2) 1700BC:
Fortify spearman inside Istanbul. Istanbul has grown to 5, so I up luxuries to 20%. I also slow growth considerably to get the city to the magic 10 shields/turn. Walls now due in 2.

IBT:
Babylonian warrior impales itself on our elite spear in Istanbul (no damage to the spear). Babylon starts the Pyramids, well at least it means that they can't build more units in a core city. Two bowmen and a warrior are outside Istanbul. Walls due next turn.

(3) 1675BC:
Bursa worker completes road, and moves to mine a plains tile (to get the city to 5 shields/turn when it grows).
India has sold our contact to Rome (they have over 400 gold in their treasury, compared to Babylon with 1 gold), and there is a two-fer opportunity available.
The Wheel + 40 gold + 4 gold/turn go to Rome in exchange for Writing.

IBT:
Another Babylon warrior impales itself on our elite spear.
Samarra is founded by the Babylonians West of Edrine.
Walls complete at Istanbul, a program of archer-building is initiated.

(4) 1650BC:
Worker begins mining a plains tile by the lake. in restrospect it would've been better to mine the tile by the river to get the extra gold.
We're getting killed for number of cities. All rival civs have 9 (yes, NINE) cities to our three. The good news is that the supply of Babylonian units appears to be drying up, and we might be able to go on the offensive soon.

IBT:
First bowman attack on Istanbul, nothing more than a suicide against that elite spear, who has not taken a single hitpoint of damage yet.

(5) 1625BC:
Nothing to move this turn.

IBT:
First archer completes. The Iroquois complete the Pyramids in Salamanca. A stack of three bowmen are sitting outside of Istanbul. A fourth is ready to pillage a road.
Yet another Babylonian spearman/settler pair comes into view.

(6) 1600BC:
I attack the lone bowman who is threatening to pillage with our new archer. He is no match for our archer, who wins without taking a hit and promotes to elite.

IBT:
Two bowman attack Istanbul, one takes out our veteran spear.

(7) 1575BC:
Take out an elite bowman with our elite archer, losing only one hitpoint.
Realize that Bursa has been making 5 shields per turn, due to the forest there (duh!), so the mine was somewhat counter-productive. Still, I've got this far, so the worker is set to work roading it.

IBT:
Edrine completes walls, starts barracks.
Bursa completes barracks, starts spearman.

(8) 1550BC:
Another bowman is taken out by our elite archer, no hitpoints lost.

IBT:
Second archer completes at Istanbul. A babylonian spearman/settler pair will move onto exposed territory next turn, and will be ripe for picking off.
Another Babylonian city appears South of Eridu.

(9) 1525BC:
Move worker to chop the forest next to Bursa. Once the spearman completes there, change to a temple, to take advantage of the chop (and get our iron online).
Luxuries to 30%, as Bursa has grown to 4, and will riot otherwise.

IBT:
Babylon wants an audience, I tell 'em to shove it.
Babylonian spear/settler pair move onto level ground, ready to be picked off.

(10) 1500BC:
Veteran archer charges out from Istanbul, and takes down the spearman with one hitpoint left to spare. We get two slaves. I will leave it up to the next player to decide what to do with them.

MLDR3_1500.jpg


Summary:
We are woefully behind on cities, and need to either start settling or attacking the new Babylonian settlements once they reach size 2. I have cleared up the majority of Babylonian troops, thanks to some good RNG luck and only one spearman lost. Looks like Babylon is gassed, underwear notwithstanding.
Istanbul has been switched to archer production.
Once the spearman completes at Bursa, SWITCH IT TO TEMPLE to take advantage of the forest chop.
The two Babylonian slaves have been left unmoved.
There's no wall graphic at Istanbul in the picture above. Weird, huh?

Go kick some smelly Babylonian butt!!
 
I can only second Coffee, :goodjob: Steve.
These additional Bab cities won't be productive for them in the near future and we can hopefully capture them.
As Meldor stated, their GA should now be over.

The one thing that is going through my mind over and over:
We built (and needed) only military buildings (rax and walls), so
not beeing militaristic did hurt us enormously.
 
We built (and needed) only military buildings (rax and walls), so not being militaristic did hurt us enormously.

Sure, but think of the cheap libraries and universities that we're going to need when we start researching for ourselves. You gain some, you lose some...

I traded for Writing... only Literature to go... Great Library prebuild anyone?
 
We need to get Samarra...that'll prevent the Babs for sending settlers to the West (they actually settled it in the spot I wanted to settle Bursa in, but we needed a worker/settler factory) ... capturing Eridu would then lock them in where we would be able to :hammer: them to nothing!

Good job, Steve, I knew you would save us! :thumbsup:
 
I've never used combat settlers before. Is this an option now. I ask because there seems to be differences on city sites. Perhaps Meldor can post a dot map. My picks to tie the food sites together.

mldrdot-1.jpg
 
Well, I probably won't get to this before tomorrow and can't get the save until later tonight so any suggestions are welcome of course.

As for city placement, I see nothing wrong with the one to the southwest, but would probably have to think about the eastern one. It maybe that we could use it and then move it later. I would like to cut the Babs off, but it may already be too late.
 
Back
Top Bottom