MM8: Philosophical Fredrick

[grahamiam]

No problem Shillen, you probably have the most experience on this team wrt culture wins. Just make sure you explain your actions clearly (ie, why Biology was selected, why irrigating makes it easier to make Great People, etc). All this is new to me

 

[Shillen]

Biology gives +1 food for all farms. This means irrigated plains are generating 3 food instead of 2 and irrigated grasslands are giving 4 food instead of 3. Each specialist costs 2 food to support. So if your GPP city has 6 farms then biology will let that city hire 3 extra specialists, assuming you can support the extra citizens with your happiness/health limits. Meanwhile, Hamburg is short on food. So having plains tiles that produce 3 food instead of 2 will allow it to work more plains cottages or more hills for more commerce/production. Also, we had to head in the scientific method direction anyway to get to mass media like planned, but since biology would be a single tech it would most definitely be worth getting, IMO.

edit: Btw I did play through a culture win by myself last week. Unfortunately when I was halfway through the game (didn't get calendar until late) I realized I was on a duel sized map by accident. I ended up finishing the game off anyway but it was pretty easy with only one other civ to compete for wonders/religions with. But anyway it did give me a much better idea of how to get a culture win. Religion spread, cathedrals, and free speech are king. I don't think researching to mass media is that important. I had done this in my first game and it doesn't work out to well because it's really far down the tree and then when you get broadway/hollywood/etc it ends up taking so long to build those wonders without great engineers to help. Also, if you keep representation going then you can generate some nice science even after turning the culture slider to 100%. Enough to be able to learn some military techs and get some proper defense in your cities in case of an attack.

 

[jameson]

No worries about being too critical Shillen .

I second the choice of biology, if you notice in my report, Hamburg went from 37 turns to grow to 3, I think it grew 2 sizes in my latest turn alone. From a short-term perspective, I might have delayed Sci Meth since it kills monasteries.

Finally, do we still have the Great Engineer available ? I can't figure out what was done with him (if he's still there, rush Broadway). Or the Great Prophet, for that matter.

 

[Shillen]

We used one to rush the Taj Mahal. I think that's probably the one you're thinking of. There is a great prophet sitting around and I'm not sure what we were saving him for.

 

[grahamiam]

I believe the Great Prophet is being saved for a GA?

Thanks for the explainations. I did catch Jameson's note about the growth change, but I had no idea during my turnset what the implications were (I learned later what biology does because you had to select it for a good reason)

 

[jameson]

Actually, Mark1031's latest report also mentioned a Great Engineer being born in Munich on his second turn (after we already had our GA). That's the one I was thinking of.

Turn 226 (1580 AD)
Frankfurt begins: Observatory
Blaise Pascal (Great Engineer) born in Munich
Cologne finishes: Grocer
Dusseldorf grows: 4

It seems though from the time it took to complete the Statue that he used the Engineer to help build that.

 

[nerovats]

Pre-turn
Since we got quite some windmills I get Replacement Parts, Devine right WM and 40 gold for Electricity from Cyrus, was not able to get 2 good techs for 1.
1680AD
Cologne->Confucian Temple
1685AD
Spread Judaism in Kassite
Frankfurt-> Jewish temple
Stuttgart->oxford
Munich->Broadway (as there's noting else really usefull to build, would take longer to build in Hamburg, in stead of what Shillen said)
1690AD
science to 80%
1695AD
Cologne->grenadier
Essen->court
1700AD
Amir Khusro is born in Kassite (scientist)
Berlin->Grocer
1705AD
We are ranked pathatict an the most advanced civs scale.
Louis declares! There are 4 muskets and a cat near Dortmund
Lower science to 70%
There are now 2 GP in Berlin, maybe use them for GA because of the war?
Send 2 units to help reinforce but don't want to leave back land open.
Am a bit at a loss of what to do, so better to stop and let team decide.

View attachment 106256

 

[jameson]

That's rotten luck popping a scientist from Kassite . I vote for the GA too, but with Mao en Louis alternating DoWs I see no way to go zero research, 100% culture and survive unscathed.

 

[Shillen]

Wow that is bad luck. At the end of my turn it was 96% artist, 2% scientist, 0% prophet. And I'd most definitely do a GA. The sooner we can get all this stuff built the better. All these war declarations are getting really annoying.

edit: Ok I checked out the save. The good news is he's sending mostly musketeers and not rifles at us. I would turn science down to 50%, finish radio this turn, then turn science off for a few turns to upgrade some of our units in the east. Meanwhile there's a couple knights in the west that can get over to the east in a few turns. Basically just hold them off long enough to make peace like we did with Mao. Some of our land will no doubt get pillaged but so be it, we have plenty of workers to repair it after the war. Switch Stuttgart and Essen to military building. Let Frankfurt finish it's temple this turn and switch that over to military also. Try to get some anti-gunpowder upgrades on our units.

 

[nerovats]

Almost sure it was a scientist am starting to have second thought. My pc is to slow to take notes live (using alt-tab) so I take notes on paper and post them on internet later. Didn't write it down. Can't check now, next player should check before act.

 

[jameson]

Why not finish your turns ? There's 4 of them left ,

 

[nerovats]

Could finish tomorrow.

 

[nerovats]

Short question, if it is a artist do we still go for GA or do we join him?
Joining still looks better then culture bombing to me, enogh turns left, but we are approaching turn over point.

 

[jameson]

There should be less than 180 turns left at this point,. but I guess Hatty will launch earlier. Say we have 150-160 turns left, the artist will generate 12 culture. I don't know what the multiplicaton factor is in Hamburg - iirc it has both a theatre and a cathedral, can't look at the save - so if we build one of the happy wonders there joining him is still superior but it's very close.

 

[nerovats]

1705AD
was mistaken it is an artist join him in Berlin, gives a 30 cpt increase
Move knight and horse archer (only 2 fast units) to front, lower science to get cash for upgrades
IBT French pillage
1710AD
we enter modrn era
Set science to massmedia to get broadcast towers
Cologne->knight
IBT French pillage
1715AD
Hambrug->eifel tower
upgrade horse archer to knight
kill mushet which was out of formation
IBT succesfully defend against a knight
1720AD
Frankfurt->knight
knight destroys cat
IBT French attack Dortmund, not very lucky as we're no down to a cat.
To top it all off, Mao wants to join the fun and declares as well
1725AD
Cologne->grenadier

We can still trade radio to Cyrus, according to foreign advisor Mao will now also trade, but we're at war which mean we can't talk. Is this a bug, as I check for trades every turn. Dortmund sems lost having just 1 cat in it, can't get reinforcements in fast enough. Might as well take out the act too.

View attachment 106389

 

[Mark1031]

Wow looks like we are really hurting. Can we recapture Dortmund. We had a very precarious military position in this game for a culture game. Well it is a learning experience but we will have to keep up some research. Can we get to flight and do we have oil? Good luck. I am out of town and gaming again till Sat. Can Skip or swap when/if I come up.

 

[Shillen]

I think we should have taken out the french early in the game and put the sea on our eastern border. But hindsight's 20/20. We'll just have to gruel it out here. Let's go military full out so we don't get conquered.

 

[Mark1031]

I think we should have taken out the french early in the game and put the sea on our eastern border. But hindsight's 20/20. We'll just have to gruel it out here. Let's go military full out so we don't get conquered.

So true. I think I have learned a lot. For a culture game early war to get defensible boarders should probably be one of the first priorties. Most of the culture comes late anyway and if you can take your neighbors down so they are not a threat it is much better. Also larger civ for more temples giving access to more cathedrals.

 

[grahamiam]

sorry, but MM7 took a little longer than I thought it would. I will be out of town tomorrow night. Can pick it up on Wednesday. If someone wants to swap, that would be fine

 

[Shillen]

mark1031
Shillen
Nerovats
grahamiam -> up, willing to swap
Rince -> on deck or swap
jameson