Mobility promotion - to powerful and destroy all game strategy?

[Marchwik]

"Mobility I " "MobilityII" - when I playing in FFH2 I used to give this promotion as first promotion for any units.So I try to discover Horseback Riding asap as a main important technology for me.All my units with that promotion have it possibility to reach every point in my empire very fast .I think that this promotion should be moving to most advanced technology like Stirrups for example.Why is the reason???It is good for any player - too good....

I try to explain.

With early mobility promotion this game is too easy and without strategy. Some nation like elven or dwarves haven't any better potential from terrain in their countries.This mod is too unbalanced and playing FFH2 at multiplayer is impossible (it is my dream to play it multi in this mod-but not now) so our opponent is only stupid AI.AI very rare use mobility promotion at units.Our heroes also are fastest than other AI heroes.

So we always have fastest or the same army mobility when we fight.I think that it is unfair and destroy all this game climate for me.When I attack elvens in their lands I expect that in forest they have it huge terrain bonus and superiority in own country.I'm always dissapointed....

I like multiplayer Civ game,very often we are banned Zulus because their Impis are too good.When U playing in human this unit give You superiority on contact Map.The same is when U playing with AI,no one says me that AI is smarter than human ,so this bonus is very huge for single palyer.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

why do you say that FFH2 is unplayable in MP? granted, it's not balanced yet, but you should be playing for fun, not FTW imho

just my 2 cents of course, maybe I'm not competitive enough

 

[Blackmantle]

On things like this its rather simple. Don't like the requirements and whould like to have balanced multiplayer?

Mod it or find someone to mod it for you.

'Vanilla' FFH2 design focus is on singleplayer first. Fun first. (according to the FFH2 Team)
Especially on something like this it should be doable for the community without extreme fuss (tech prereqirements for promotions should be among the easiest things to mod. I reckon that whould 'just' need XML work. One cell or at worst a few for each promotion).

So your dream can come reality and if you really want it hard, you can help it becoming reality yourselves... (unless of course you are more or less good at modding then it becomes a matter of just wanting it at all to make it a reality all by yourselves, which you seem to do.)
And you can be sure you'll find many people who whould like a balanced multiplayer modmod (best to start somewhere if you want it happening at all). But hardly everone whould agree. (not even all people who like multiplayer / competative multiplayer i reckon.)
So the teams resources might be better spend elsewhere.


That leads to much more people beeing happy. The multiplayers agreeing with your point having a more or less balanced game and all others having the game they like since some years now.
Mobility is fine the way it is for me...
Please don't force such changes you percive as neseccary down everyones throat at the expense of the teams resources.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

Blackmantle's right.

how to do it:

1) open up folder Fall from Heaven 2 033/Assets/XML/Units

2) open the file CIV4Promotioninfos.xml

3) search for <Type>PROMOTION_MOBILITY1</Type>

4) a couple lines below that, you'll see one that says <TechPrereq>TECH_HORSEBACK_RIDING</TechPrereq>

5) change that to <TechPrereq>TECH_STIRRUPS</TechPrereq> or whatever tech you like.

6) repeat 3), 4) and 5) with <Type>PROMOTION_MOBILITY2</Type>

7) save and have fun

8) be very careful though! once you see how easy it is to modify XML files, you'll be tempted to edit EVERYTHING to you liking. soon enough, you'll start modding INSTEAD of playing, and in the end you'll become a modder yourself

 

[Pyr0mancer]

Also, if you're finding the AI isn't difficult enough... up the difficulty. Seriously, try a few games at Immortal or Deity. Invading FoL-following Elves, even on Emperor, for example, is a fairly major undertaking.

As for mobility, I disagree that it's that powerful. Taking mobility means NOT taking some other promotion. Speed is useful, but sooner or later you're still going to have to fight the enemy, at which point that 20% less (minimum) strength is going to matter.

Granted, for Heroes and Arcane units, Mobility is usually the first thing I take, but that's because in the case of Heroes, they're strong already and will likely end up with tons of promotions anyway, while for Arcane units doubling their speed is far more useful than an extra sphere promotion.

 

[Arcite36575]

You think that mobility promotion is overpowered? Try commando instead. Once you get air mages or another unit that does AOE or stack DD, you can sweep enemy cities literally every turn.

I rarely get the mobility promotion. In the first half of the game when you are essentially forced to use artillery to take cities, you need to keep your forces together, and you can only move one square max per turn. So getting the mobility promotion for your infantry is pretty pointless for me.

In the latter half, after I have mages or Chalid, commando is much more useful, because, by then, the AI will have built roads over their entire civ, I will have the engineering tech, so even a unit with one movement point, will still move 3 squares in enemy territory. That's just as good as using horses (even better actually since you don't have to worry about double movement costs in forests and hills if there are roads).

 

[Marchwik]

Thanks. Gekko I will try to do this by my own

Guys.I love FFH2 mod but it was only a my point of view.Of course many times I try to play mutliplayer with my friends and always we are get mobility I and mobility II promotion.

Why?Of course it is right that You have less strenght units even 20% but with mixed units on stack with archers this promotion are equal when You are attack first by lot of archers or cataps.Because U are fastest and that's all,it is very important to attack first and down strenght enemy units.

Maybe I exaggerate with mobility ,when all units have it this promotion ,but much often I'm playing FFH2 with AI than against humans .And it is too easy.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

are you playing with AI no building reqs on? if not, do so, it allows the AI to do much better. and you can always up the difficulty if playing FF, there is also another option that allows the AI to build units that the player has to upgrade from lesser ones, like mages and the like. that one helps a lot too.

 

[slowcar]

strange, i have like 15-20 highly promoted units before i even reach mobility. and at least in regards of KI-play i consider myself experienced.
Mobility is used for heroes, arcane units and blitz chariots. of course it is nice to have for replacement troops and your shock-units will get it somewhere in their 100+ xp range. but there are far more useful promotions, like shock2, march, cover, city raider...

 

[[NWO]_Valis]

Or just agree not to take it. If you think it is overpowered in the hands of a human then make a house rule not to give it to your units before level x or at all for certain classes.

Like we were playing MoO2 we always agreed not to use Ion Cannons as they were OPed. If it only considers the human then it is even easier to exclude it than editing an XML. Just do not use it [or drink a glass of water instead]

 

[Tarquelne]

A few more options:

Increase the requirements - Make PromotionPrereq into "PROMOTION_COMBAT2", for example.

Limit the classes that can get it. Say you think only mounted and recon units should have it - Remove all the "UnitCombat" entries from the promotion other than "UNITCOMBAT_MOUNTED" and "UNITCOMBAT_RECON".


If Horseback Riding's "Mobility I" is supposed to represent the use of horses to aid troop movement then a Gold cost attached to the promotion could make sense, and could be added if you use the mod "Fall Further" or (since IIRC Xienwolf added it) Xienwolf's expanded XML dll.

Hmm... I think you could make it require Gold and last only until the unit's next combat. So you could mount 'em up to get someplace by paying some gold, but after they dismount (to fight) you'd have to pay the cost again. That might be interesting. You could also remove the XP cost and make Gold the only requirement.

 

[fuzzy_bunnies]

Hrmm I've been using Mobility lately, but thats because I'm playing Elohim and I usually attack once I get monks so I like my other support units to be able to keep up.

In general though, it doesn't really seem that OP. In enemy territory you get an extra move... unless you're also raider it only sorta helps. Even if you're attacking elves, mobility 1 and 2 aren't going to help you walk through their forests any faster, so whats the difference?

And yes, AI Building Requirements Off makes a big difference.

If you're playing Multi, there are still ways around it. Unless they're all raiders, forests and hills will slow them down.... or if you're feeling particularly ballsy, put a ring of desert around your frontier cities. Your cities won't be optimized but if all your friends play the same way, vs humans the tactical advantage should outweigh the growth disadvantage.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

is there a way to have a promotion need a resource? I think yes given how bronze working etc. work. it would make sense for mobility to need horses, since you get it at horseback riding and well I think that the units move faster cuz they got some steeds, right?

 

[avalonnn]

Raiders / Commando is far more powerful than Mobility. I also give most ground units mobility 1 as their first promotion.

One place where mobility was too powerful -- mobile artillery! I believe that was a change between FFH 1 and FFH 2 but I've not played FFH 1 that often.

 

[OzzyKP]

I agree that the promo is unbalancing. The fact that everyone seems to be defending it is that everyone loves using this promotion and don't want to lose it, hehe. Perhaps put it later in the tech tree or have promotion pre-reqs.

 

[Chip56]

Also its not really a big problem because everybody can take it.
Yes it can(!) be very, very strong, but again its open for everbody and a city defender is still much better of with city guard, drill, hill defense, whatever.

 

[Marchwik]

I agree that the promo is unbalancing. The fact that everyone seems to be defending it is that everyone loves using this promotion and don't want to lose it, hehe. Perhaps put it later in the tech tree or have promotion pre-reqs.

To be frank I feel the same

They said again and again about commando promotion -when You can got it commando promotion - on which unit level and when U can use mobility???

 

[Chip56]

They said again and again about commando promotion -when You can got it commando promotion

Instant on lvl 0.
You only need raiders as trait.

 

[Marchwik]

Instant on lvl 0.
You only need raiders as trait.

Raiders compare to Organized or Financial trait is too poor.I build many cities some archers in my cities to defend with big production ,low economy penalties and when U try to use Your raiders I recieve horseback riding very fast and You raiders will be equal.Pls try to imagine that I not build roads in terrain when U come from (commando) and my units with mobility are much better than Yours.only connect main supplies and cities by roads.What give u a raiders trait ,destroy supplies but in my terrain at mobility I move 4 squares and U are maximum 2 squares.I also have possiblity to send all army with my whole empire in two or three turn to beat U.

AI is not a human- is stupid like hell.Mobility give u too big potential when U attack and when U defend.And that is the point of my view ,mobility give a human big gun in hand,kill games strategy and other bonuses from elven or dwarfs for example

This mod is too great for such unbalanced thing

 

[zup]

AI is just exp fodder, it is so dumb. Not that I complain, much. Any means to make my elite forces even stronger is welcome.

And raiders is much better in FF (though I believe some will disagree). Hippus cavalry sweeps the country side and leaves the enemy's economy in ruins. Automatic pillage is sweet. All those towns mmmmmmm.